MegaMind

My experience has been just the opposite. Most teachers I've had don't care about the subject they teach, it's just a paycheck to them. Read this chapter, test will be over this material, lets talk about my dog for the next 15 minutes.. etc. I have learned far more listening to video and audio from people who do actually care about what they are teaching. To me I would rather learn this way if given the option it works well for me, and for a lot of other people as well.

If you feed your tofu to the turkeys would you call them tofurkys?

It's an audio based approach to learning language, and it works well.

The article you linked to isn't saying you can't learn things online, it is saying the college experience has more to it than just learning. "College is more than a collection of classes. It's the experience of living away from home." ... "relationships with other humans and even faculty. College can be about clubs and other student groups. It's about studying with your peers." ... "It's about exploring who you are and learning things that might not directly relate to a particular field. College is about taking classes that might not have anything to do with work. Art history is a great class—even if you aren't going to work in a museum. Algebra should be taken by all students—even though you probably won't need it (most humans get by just fine without a solid math background)." ... "about becoming more mature as a human. It's about leveling up in the human race—and that is something that is difficult to do online (but surely not impossible)."

Earl, the Pimsleur approach to learning language works amazingly well. Diplomats use it, and people in college achieve better results with it than with teachers.

Hi Zork, Many of our group were students to the top western student of the art I study. This ultimately is how things are transmitted, from teacher to student. His teachings haven't changed they are still the same. None of it is complicated or hard to understand.

Hi Luke, Math, physics, chemistry, computer programming, you name it you can learn it by watching video lectures. Real arts like the one I study can also be learned this way. The teachings are the same now as they were then. It isn't nearly as complicated as you make it out to be.

Maybe these edits will help better: "What I see are some of the reasoning you make is smug, and it parallels some of the DIY culture prominent in Silicon Valley." People can and do get masters degrees and PhD.s in advanced mathematics and physics just by watching videos aka prerecorded lectures. This works in practice, not in theory. The information is the same as sitting in on a lecture, though I will grant you being there in person is a more immersive experience. "learning disabilities, which people have that makes learning from a video difficult" Those people may need special help, but for a lot of people video will work just fine. "complex subjects" No, even for complex subjects video works just fine (for most people), the information is the same as sitting in on a lecture. People learn advanced mathematics and physics this way, and those are some of our most challenging subjects. "people in medical school or law school all having differing levels of understanding even if the study the same material." Going to college helps you be less ignorant, but does not increase your intelligence. You can earn your bachelors degree if you try hard enough, and be still be an idiot. "I think it is more a testament to your own level of intelligence and discipline to be able to learn on your own" I disagree, there is nothing special about it. Being able to learn from video is something almost all humans have the ability to do. What most people lack is the desire to follow through with it. We are distracted by TV shows, video games, Facebook, and other social media to the point we have the attention spans of goldfish.

I am absolutely correct, and we do indeed have proof for serious individuals.

Hi Zork, I do have a lot more than a clue. This does apply to our system. Lets see this demonstrable Zan Zhuang ability from the LKC book.

"the difference is a lot of people are passing themselves off as experts " Our role is merely to provide information from actual experts, and let others follow that instruction and see for themselves. "What I see are some of the reasoning you make is smug, and it parallels some of the DIY culture prominent in Silicon Valley." People can and do get masters degrees and PhD.s in advanced mathematics and physics just by watching videos aka prerecorded lectures. This works in practice, not in theory. The information is the same as sitting in on a lecture, though I will grant you being there in person is a more immersive experience. "learning disabilities, which people have that makes learning from a video difficult" Indeed people with ADHD and other learning disabilities need not apply. It's not that we don't want to help, but rather we aren't equipped for it. "complex subjects" No, even for complex subjects video works just fine, the information is the same as sitting in on a lecture. People learn advanced mathematics and physics this way, and those are some of our most challenging subjects. However what we study is not complex or difficult for most with a 100 IQ (or higher) to grasp. "people in medical school or law school all having differing levels of understanding even if the study the same material." Going to college helps you be less ignorant, but does not increase your intelligence. You can be an idiot still earn your bachelors degree if you try hard enough. "I think it is more a testament to your own level of intelligence and discipline to be able to learn on your own" In regards to our art, many of us were students of the top western student, however the information passed along is the same as it always was we haven't altered or changed it in any way. In reality it just isn't that complicated, if you can microwave a hot pocket you can do this. The hard part is finding people who will actually listen and then actually do it. Most people gargle, take bits and pieces, blend it together with other systems and then proclaim themselves son goku all without ever having meditated more than 5 minutes.

You will notice Luke that I've done my best to ignore such comments, and I have not discussed specific practices in this thread So far you and Steve are the only ones to bring it up.

I am not concerned with the originality of a practice, I am only concerned with the results it gets. If a teacher can demonstrate real results in a controlled environment for professionals who are there to rule out fraud, you should probably listen to what he says imho. If he can't you shouldn't.

No, not 100% misleading. 100% accurate. I don't consider the practice your reference real or valid, so I see any "varying results" as purely placebo. Also your strength training argument only applies to keeping people motivated. People with enough motivation and discipline are going to achieve the same result coach or no coach.

"video with correct instructions is not enough for someone to truly grok the material." "You really have no clue do you?" This notion that one can't "grok" concepts by watching videos is completely divorced from reality. People can and do get masters degrees, and even PhD.s online. Not degrees in easy subjects, but advanced mathematics, physics, etc. Most online college classes are asynchronous meaning the lecture is prerecorded video. The "teacher" only provides a syllabus, records the lectures, assigns readings, grades papers and assignments, and records test grades. When I was in college I had some absolutely horrible math and chemistry teachers, and went online and watched videos of real teachers give correct instruction and I aced the classes as a result. I also passed my CCNA, and CCNP Security exams which are extremely difficult using only videos, and written lab exercises executed on my home lab. I learned via youtube how to remove the starter and alternator off my car, I took them to a shop had them rebuilt and put them back on myself using a youtube video. I changed my brakes myself using a youtube video. A part in my washing machine failed, and again I used a youtube video to diagnose and replace it. I am not a mechanic or a appliance repair man. Being with a teacher is an exchange of information, a video contains that exact same information.

What is happening in the video is that people start with a source of correct information. These people then change the information and then relay it with slight changes. Each person in the chain makes a modification until the end result bears no resemblance to the initial correct information. Were you to video the initial source from all angles and force these people to seriously study and practice it individually, and then get them to replicate it based of the initial instruction you would have a much different result. Most people (not living in poverty, with a good grasp of technology and no learning disabilities) have no problem learning things via video. Sometimes things are not so complicated.

100% true. (not 50%) If you have the correct information, and actually follow instruction exactly as described, and you actually do it you will achieve the same result as everyone else does.

All the love dovey stuff is nice I guess, but it does not effect the end goal in the slightest. Ultimately you either have the correct information, and you are capable of following instruction, and you do follow instruction diligently or you don't. Correct information and dilligent practice is all that is required for real attainment. There is no supernatural energy or ability transferred from a teacher to a student via a transmission or an attunement, there is only information.

Lots of people believe in attunements, and transmissions of ability from teacher to student. Lots of people also believe in the healing power of homeopathy, crystal, magnetic and copper adornments, just because people are convinced of the reality of something, does not in fact make it real. For most it is all psychological, all placebo, and all delusion. In reality all real attainments come from having the correct information, and diligent practice. Most have neither correct information nor diligent practice. If you want grow muscles eating the correct diet, drinking plenty of water, getting plenty of rest, and working out correctly is how it is done. If you want to make a fire with sticks, you don't need an attunement or a master to transmit some secret store of lineage energy into you. (see video below) It is all very simple and almost anyone can do it if they can follow simple instructions diligently. All attainments come from having correct information, and dilligent practice. Bootstraps, not attunements nor transmissions. Just my $0.02

Sometimes a practice is very simple and straight forward. In instances like that getting a video of a teacher explaining a simple concept is no different from being there in person and hearing the exact same words repeated.

I think you are going to have a bad time here if you try and have a serious discussion about Mo Pai. Every time its discussion comes up it is plagued by people who think they can shoot fireballs and build interdimensional portals and who have made up some new practice they call Mo Pai. There are also lots of anti-mo-pai trolls who will do whatever is in their power to cause arguments and chaos and do their best to discredit the practice, and anyone involved in it. It always has in the past turned into a real mess, and that is putting it nicely. I don't see how a real discussion on the topic can possibly be had out in the open in an environment like that. Just my $0.02

I think the best option is here is to record actual teachings this way they are not altered or charged by people who "know better".

As to things being faked, bringing in scientists and medical doctors to rule out fraud on camera is as good as it can get. A teacher is not going to have time or energy to do individual demonstrations for thousands of people who would never pursue the practice anyway to convince them. In the end you can present the best evidence you have, and call it a day.

I speak with many people who quote authors who wrote books about the art I study. The authors were never students, and what they teach has no resemblance to the art in question. It is strange talking to people who want to argue that X, Y, and Z things should be done as part of the practice. When I ask why they think that has anything at all to do with the practice they reference the aforementioned authors as authorities. People also love to edit the original instructions by actual students and change them into something new and different. Your video explains quite accurately the how teachings are corrupted and misinformation is transmitted.

https://www.psypost.org/2019/08/study-provides-evidence-that-loving-kindness-meditation-slows-cellular-aging-54316