Sora

In my view wu wei can be another name for terms like living in the moment. There is really nothing new under the sun. There are two lines in Tao Te Ching that can help explain the wu wei concept. 无为而无不为（wuwei er wubuwei） 为道日损，损之又损，以至于无为。 (Let me know if you can't find proper English translation. It's hard for me to translate in simple words without losing their essence.) 无为and无不为are equally "important". I've tried the scientific approach and this was actually where my whole spiritual journey began. However, it didn't work out for me. It can serve as the stepping stone but not the key. If you shift the focus of "thinking" from the head to the heart and start living from there, you might get an instant glimpse of what wu wei feels like. Literally, the "heart(chakra)" region, it's not a metaphor. This is what your state of being was like as a kid and as you grow up you still would "go back" to this state now and then without knowing. It's the Flow, which in Chinese is translated into 心流(xin liu, literally the flow of heart). It's being effortless without trying to be effortless.(Very simple and nothing so esoteric as it appears to be. You just need to do it and you'll know it, instead of thinking and analyzing. Since the latter works as a.counteractive force. It's the state of who you are where you forgot that you are actually always in.) The mind has no answer, the heart has no question. "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you.(Nor will people say, Look! Here [it is]! or, See, [it is] there! For behold, the kingdom of God is within you [in your hearts] and among you [surrounding you].)" - Bible, Luke 17:21

Sure, I'll get back to you asap after finish reading the post

Hi @Victor maybe we can start with some TCM healing tricks😉. If your family can see their ailment cured or remitted (sometimes instantly) just by pressing some acupuncture points and something else(Called 祝由术. It's a part of the TCM invented thousands of years ago by the Chinese ancesters but not as commonly used anymore as other forms of TCM like acupucture or herbs, and is connected to Taoism as well.), it can be a good hors doeuvre before introducing the qigong related stuff. I'll have some translated and send to you within these days.

That's so true wandelaar, it's probably the most practical and viable way by diverting the attention else where. While in some cases where the physical syndrome caused by qi is too intense and terrifying with the mental state being like some sorta mania (Or some people are just simply too sensitive and susceptible and are prone to build up something like "self–induced catatonia" regardless of the actual syndrome), this method can have limited effect. Ultimately it's the thoughts in one's head that are causing the aftershocks of the deviation and the possibilities of them bouncing back can be quite high. I don't think it was the deviation itself that was the deviation(), it was the aftershocks–deviation. Since the mind and qi generation/movement are coherent, the aftershocks–deviation cycle becomes a perpetual machine(NO WAY OUT HELL). Once the thoughts arise, the panic strikes, and gradually the vicious cycle forms and strengthens and eventually becomes a conditioned reflex which could be immune to the diversion therapy. Though I've never been diagnosed of depression before, what I was going through during the deviation period was partially very similar to its characteristics I learnt about. The "understanding" which saved me from the deviation didn't come over night like satori or enlightenment, it wasn't. It's something inherent in everyone. It did kinda feel like epiphany at that very moment of realization, but the process was learnt and accumulated. I guess it might be a very elementary level of Zen "achievement". And that's why it was impossible to be passed on just by telling people what I felt like when grasping this understanding. But it surly can be learnt. Later on I learnt that this thing is exactly what can be achieved during the process of many different religious practices like those of Zen, Taoism, Vipassana etc even it's what the Power of Now talks about. My Taoist teacher who I encountered years after the incident teaches the practices of such type also (The core conception is the same). Here is a brief process of how this understanding occurred. I was in such discomfort and panic during the deviation that I was looking for and holding onto the "Me", the "I am" so that I feel a tiny bit more of a sense of security that I am still here with me (It's like when you were terrified as a kid you tend to huddle.) I guess this was the only thing I could do out of instinct since anything else didn't matter anymore to an utterly desperate and mentally-lost person. → My focus of attention gradually and naturally got placed on the chest (heart chakra) region for this is the place where I can better grasp this centered "I am" (Some years later I came across the book I Am That written by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj in which the "I am" he talks about was the same thing I felt.) → A friend introduced Byron Katie and told me she might be of any help for my condition. At first what I saw was just an old lady talking to people helping with some non-spiritual neighborhood family issues but still was watching her videos on youtube and they actually turned out to be wise, comforting and amusing. (Later on discovered that her now husband is the translator for one of the Tao Te Ching versions and thought she's not that non–spiritual after all.) Tried to do her method of "4 Questions and A Turnaround" but it was just too overwhelming and clueless for me in such condition and I automatically sticked to the first question "Is it true?"(And back then ofc I considered this question bull for obviously I was suffering and it was TRUE!!) (Again some years later I found online a few articles from a now quite well-known Chinese zen master which talked about how valuable accurate and how similar to the Zen teaches the Byron Katie works were.) → The focusing on chest thing got my way of "thinking" shifted and I found out I wasn't thinking through my head anymore but sensing/feeling through my heart and those thoughts from within my head sometimes can be caught the moment when they were "produced". And the thoughts especially emotions became one with the feelings of energy on my body. For example "fear" was not a "thought/concept of fear" but a lump of energy in my belly and it was actually the feeling which this lump was/generated that gave me the sense of "fear". First there was energy then it's perceived by the mind which puts labels/judges on the energy and in this case it's called "fear". The process happens so fast that I used to think what happens is simply "I think"(in my head). And came to realize thoughts are energy, energy is thoughts, emotions are energy, energy is emotion(not trying to be poetic). OK then later on got this piece of puzzle connected to qigong, TCM and everything else and realized they were all indeed in this one holistic picture. → Went on binge watching Byron Katie homie videos and noticed she kept mentioning the energy emotion thing just like what I was experiencing. And one day this "Is it true?" question appears in my heart most of the time when a thought or a piece of emotion rises. → One day, "Is it true?"... I got it! This is so simple! All of a sudden (not so dramatic...), the energy panic situation was just gone. It was out of the question. Because any thoughts and emotions that were connected to the qigong deviation were just equal to any other thoughts and emotions and they are simply simply not "true". Every time when I think(when thoughts surface), I would laugh (mostly in the heart) and it was so clear and what was left there was this peaceful joy sometimes even ecstacy in my heart. → This state of peaceful joy/understanding has stayed in my heart ever since and over the years the understanding expanded to a point that I understood (I used to "know" for it appears so frequently in those spiritual materials but didn't really understand) that all is energy and then everything including my physical body and the "I" is not constant, not THAT. And all is one, one is all, then all is none, none is all. (And got the calling in heart to read some script from Buddhism, Taoism which I had been sciolistic and others like Conversations with God which I had tried to read and dropped it back then for I couldn't understand this book full of abstract headaches)Then one day it occurred to me that what there is...is this all that is has been and ever can be. → I don't even notice when exactly this question "Is it True" disappeared. It worked like a bridge or I would call it an anti-virus software (for the emotion system) and once it's done the mission it left humbly and peacefully. Now what's left in my life for me to do is just being, living, (And what "live in the moment/now" really is has become clear knowing) and my heart knows what to do or not. Everything and everyone being equal comes without doubt for me and if I don't love and respect ("myself" or anyone anything else) there is nothing else for me to do here. It's not like I'm emotionless it's that I feel and I "know" and I don't cling to it. The heart is like a mirror reflecting but not interacting. → Sometimes some thoughts would surface like "which stage am I in?" "will I get there?" "Will I be enlightened"—each has been understood as another thought/有（which is opposed to the 无（void））. That's it. I continue being, until I don't.

Hello freeform, in case you didn't get the notification here is the link https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/48398-meditation-sickness-and-related-deviations/?do=findComment&comment=863988

Did you mean the acupuncture therapy? @freeform Hi @freeform Hope you can get the notification for this one. My daily post quota has reached the limit as a new member while I found out it's still open for editing so here I am lol "Sorry - didn’t quote the full sentence initially. You said the advice helped a bit but wasn’t the key to full recovery. Can you you share what was the key to recovery for you? —from @freeformdownstairs." ↑Now let me reply to this one. The key is really hard to be described. It was an understanding that all is illusion and I got out of this fear-of-energy situation and even other stuff like my emotion and thoughts that I used to care and concern couldn't influence me anymore and I gradually grew more happy and carefree than I ever had been. It's not telling myself not to be afraid of the chi disorder or anything because I couldn't make myself believe "It's ok just don't think about it and it will get better". It's not about the thoughts in mind it's the KNOWING of the heart. But this understanding can't be expressed by words. I tried my best for many times to talk to those who reached for me for help in terms of their qigong deviation, but failed to pass on this understanding to them only made them calmed down a bit instead of having their problem uprooted. There might be other ways around but for me when there was this one way that uprooted the tree, my qi deviation problem being solved was like a byproduct since this problem was like a leaf on the tree. If it makes sense? I talked about a bit of this understanding in the following posts: https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/48383-hi-greetings-from-china/ https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/47048-hello-everybody/?do=findComment&comment=863681→(Put the wrong link just now this is the one) And other friends on TBD apologize here will reply to you guys tmrw when I get my quota renewed

Sure, thanks!

Hi wandelaar. Before such incident happened to my own self I'd had no idea those energy/chigong deviations could happen not to mention to so many people. Thanks for opening this topic! During that period of time, I was like a walking dead and felt such deep deep hopelessness with uncontrollable energy in my body as well as those feelings in my head beyond words that it was almost like no way out. However when I finally came out of that situation, "back to normal" and looked back it was not that severe as I thought I had been in, at all. If there had been anyone with similar experience who reached out for me and told me his or her experience and what could be done, it could've been so much better. The acupuncture therapy and advice from people back then like relaxing walking not thinking about it did help a bit but wasn't the key to the recovery, at least for me. Since It was IMPOSSIBLE for me at that time to not think about it by telling myself not to think about it. I really appreciated my family who stood by me though the majority didn't believe it and thought it was some sort of psychosisand subsequently made the matters worse by sending me to shrinks and giving me sleeping pills, sedatives and so forth... So it can be very important support from spiritual practitioners like us especially those who have had similar experience to reach out for people who are going through such dark period.

My post is going to be called something like My qigong deviation experience, I'm new to TDB and not sure which sub is proper for this topic, can anyone advice? Thanks guys!:)

Just came across someone who is suffering from a similar energy accident↓ So I see the need to create a separate post and talk more about the details and treatment as well as further discussion in this qigong/energy deviation topic. My post is going to be called something like My qigong deviation experience, I'm new to TDB and not sure which sub is proper for this topic, can anyone advice? Thanks guys!:)

Hi uselis, this brought tears to my eyes for something similar happened to me years ago and I do understand how you feel in this whole situation. I talked concisely to some folks about my spiritual deviation in another post yesterday and ran into your post by chance. → I'm going to put together what I posted in that post and start a new one as well as extend further regarding details of that incident of mine. I'll update the link to my new post here. Let's see if my experience and any replies from other friends in TDB can hopefully help with your situation. Stay strong and calm and remember you are not alone. 🙏🏻❤️

This was exactly what initiated my qi deviation back then.

Hi Victor, it's so good to hear that you have figured the situation out! We can talk more about Qigong practice when we get to. Well as for the incident. A few days into focusing on my Dantian area I started to feel chi, chi meridians, and acupuncture points and the positions of which mostly matched the pictures I can find online. I got so surprised about the fact that such myths did exist and started to play around with the Chi and for the days that followed I experienced intense chi in my body and unusual acute physical conditions caused by both the huge volume and disorder of chi. Conditions like having fever and sweating while feeling frozen inside and being knocked over and suppressed on the ground by the chi flow in my body to a point that the flow rocketed out of the top of my head and I felt the skull open (not physically for the scalp is intact, but still could feel a shallow pitting if I touch it) and connecting to the outside. The more intense the chi situation got the more fearful I was and vise vera. And the opening on my head was the most frightening, mentally in particular since I was afraid my chi would all escape out of that pitting and lead to my death.😰 The TCM doctor my family reached out for even deemed it incurable and suggesting me being on my last gasp after checking my pulse... I got treated for almost a week but still wasn't fully recovered and I was literally scared to death. So much had happened during that time and it's more like a movie to me now. The treatment only temporarily restored the natural order of the chi net (Yes for me it's like an electric current net in my body, the chi system.) and my fear of the energy was indeed incurable. Each time when I was in panic the whole system went into chaos again. (As you know the chi goes where your mind goes or we can say the chi and the consciousness are just two sides of the same coin.) I had to face the fact that I am the only one who can determine my own fate in this situation. The time when I fully recovered was months after the incident and the treatment, when I reached an understanding. Which didn't only spared me from the whole chi-fear condition but almost everything else. It's hard to be put into words... I became less and less influenced by my thoughts and emotion. And the chi problem as well as many issues which used to concern me in my life just became such jokes.😆 You may find a bit of what the understanding is about in my first post here. https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/48383-hi-greetings-from-china/ Anyway that's what happened long story short. —————— Hope my story didn't cause you undue concern or distrust towards Qigong. Qigong is cute and legit and I absolutely love it. What I'm trying to highlight here is: 1. Even everyday sports might lead to injuries like sprains and pulled muscles as @Zen Pighave mentioned also. While Qigong can be considered a sport in a sense and voila. Qigong-gone-wrongs are not something only happen in Kungfu films and are capable of causing actual harm without being handled properly. 2. I did try to seek for help before we could find a doctor. Once I got the matters somewhat under control, I SOSed in some Qigong chat groups I could find. Some were concerned but couldn't do anything, some didn't believe my words and considered me a troll, some told me to Zhanzhuang (Which at that point made the situation even worse for letting in a Siberian Husky in a dog fight and was actually the cause for 50% of the "danger".) 3. I wasn't the only one. During the years after I recovered, I saw people seeking for help regarding Qigong incidents in spiritual chat groups or Zhihu (A Chinese version of Quora). I offered my help unfortunately not for everyone but only some due to my limited capacity, and the number of the gone-wrongs turned out to be surprisingly much larger than I expected. And some would reach for me by following the trails of my posts.（And again most of them had been either ignored for being a troll-would-be or was taught well-intentioned but misleading measures and ended up in worse situation just like I was in.） 4. It's important to get information from online but some info could be clickbaits, trumped-ups or cases where situations differ from person to person. I mentioned in the previous reply that this experience was trilling and funny at the same time. Now you've got the trilling part and one of the funny parts is that during my self-rescuing operation online I found an article saying with the chi activated and the head pitting thing one would lose his vitality and soul and yada yada. (Though at the very least this could be true, my fear for it and the accompanying despond could've killed me way before the body-energy condition itself actually does.) The message got ingrained in my head like spells which generated so much despair and panic that brought on further chi disorder which then contributed to the 40% of the "danger". 5. Family can be skeptical about the chi or any seemingly supernatural concept and their precious support might not be duly provided. Which I can totally understand for they had been used to living quite a "normal" life. My mom was the only person who witnessed from the very beginning and trusted me wholeheartedly as always, while other family members were worried yet doubtful and some thought I was paranoid, insane, thought the TCM doctor was a crook, and even have sent me to the psychiatric clinic or possibly asylum (fortunately not the latter).😂 It was literally like me being a secret black magic victim school girl against flurried Muggles lol. (While a bit of plot twist here. Eventually some were dumbfounded by the tangible seeing-believing evidence like some acupuncture needles bent by chi after being removed from my legs etc.) 6. By the time when all the dust has settled down--Qigong and I went back to being BFFs, I realized that at the end of the day the dominant even fatal factor has never been the chi or Qigong but your MIND.(And subsequently found out that it applies to everything.) And this actually cast light on those ostensibly cliche traditional teaches like how important the 修心(xiuxin, to cultivate one's mind/nature) is. I used to think that those being calm, relaxing, and inner peace, blah blah were so intangible, abstract and were more of hackneyed stereotype which could be put secondary while the energy part was more responsive and exciting. So in a sense this incident was actually a bliss. Hope the info above wasn't too overwhelming as I tried to go into more details in order that honest and accurate messages were delivered. Also I'm not a native English speaker so please let me know if there is anything obscure due to my English deficiency. Besides, any questions feel free to ask me Victor, and other friends who took the time to read such a prolix post.😅

Hi, Victor. I practice Qigong and Zhanzhuang as well. As for Xianggong, I've heard a bit about it since it made its debut in China decades ago. But I was too young back then to acquire enough knowledge. When I searched on the Chinese webs just now it seems to have become a rather sensetive topic unlike other trational kinds of Qigong. Regardless of the reasons behind it it's always a good idea to have a grasp of the general knowledge of Qigong and stick to the more trusted ones first. So imo if you wanna build up your foundation it might work better if you start from some traditional ancient ones since they are more likely to be more credible and safer for having stood the test of time and mass practitioners. And if you've found Xianggong practitioners here in TDB or other forums then it's even better. Do more research and talk to more seniors before you go deeper especially when dealing with such energy realted practice 'cause if anything happens and as you don't have Qigong teachers in your area to assit you it can be troublesome. Not trying to be fussy here. When I first started practicing Qigong I did it all by myself, learnt online and stuff and situations went thrilling and funny at the same time now when I recall😂 Luckily I didn't actually get too hurt from it but it did rise huge concern and even chaos in my family.🤒If I did more research and took it more slowly such incidents might not have happened. And as for the intense dreams you had been encountering as well as the emotion shift mentioned below, in my experience they could be the results of the energy increasement, shiftings in your body and karma unfolding and are mostly natural byproducts during the Qigong practice. In my view, the essence of Qigong or spirituality in general, is relaxation (both mentally and physically) and to return to your true self, being that ALL THAT IS. And like what rideforever said, do what you truely love to do and follow where your heart leads. PS for the tinnitus issue it might have something to do with your kidney(TCM-wise not the western medicine term) since 肾开窍于耳（which basically means they are closely connected in the chi sense）And in TCM its more of a holistic view in terms of different diseases on one's body quite different from the western. Meowwww such a lengthy post already! We'll go into more details later. Take care and see you around.😊

Residing is a very proper name for it! And will definitely look into the Primordial meditation, thanks for the info. When I'm residing, it's like I'm being the "center" and the whole at the same time. This stillness/"I am" witnesses and reflects everything that arises, and knowing that all is but energy/consciousness in different forms, floating, shifting—All is "illusion", including its very self, the background, and the "I". And fundamentally what the "I" am really is is the never-changing-always-whole THAT (Here let me refer to the Heart Sutra) When i'm "offline", I lose the residing and jump back into the river. The inertia of our thoughts, emotions, and karma is so powerful that it's constantly pulling us back to the river and when the night comes, back to the non-lucid dreams, thus when the clock strikes, back to the reincarnation. Keep residing, being aware, witnessing, knowing... You are on the WAY, and you KNOW it.