Giles

How interesting! I'd completely forgotten that I'd posted in that thread. This thread differs from the premise of that thread in that I disagree with any assertion that it's necessary to read Jung in order to do effective Shadow work. In fact, I consider that reading Jung makes the job unnecessarily complicated and potentially impossible because Jung is so convoluted. Shadow work is really simple, you just need the courage to undertake it and once you've managed to light the blue touch paper, you just need to hang on for the duration of the ride.

I'll certainly read that later. Thank you for the link.

I stumbled across my own Shadows (dark and later golden) about forty years ago and didn't fully understand what was going on until I trained as a psychotherapist about 10 years later. I'm happy to discuss the specifics in more detail in a personal practice area if it interests you or anyone else but I don't want to use this thread for the purpose of my own autobiography.

I've edited my OP as requested.

Thanks for the feedback. Would it be better if you gave me a personal practice forum and moved this discussion there or would you prefer to delete it completely?

Could I have one please? I'll use it to attempt to explain the Jungian Shadow theory and its practical application, which might be a resource that would shed some light on various issues that appear to interfere with the fundamental purpose of this forum. Edit: Changed my mind, I'll start a topic in General Discussion.

This phenomenon, which you label "pain identities", is described in detail by the Internal Family System. Usually people are stuck in Manager or Firefighter personality constructs protecting their Exiles but IFS has developed a tried and tested methodology for accessing the real Self, the source of all healing, which lies at the heart of the matter. The "pain identities" are then liberated by allowing the real Self to take the executive position. The more that you're able to identify with the universal Self, the more authentic will be your relationship both with yourself and with others. The most surprising thing for many is that it was discovered that the Self is fundamentally the same in everyone and that it has various identifiable qualities such as compassion, curiousity, kindness, peacefulness, calm, clarity, connectedness, empathy, confidence, self-assurance, humility, self-respect, courage, warmth, creativity, contentedness, happiness, sense of humour, acceptance, intuition, sense of purpose and it is also a refuge and provider of protection. This is not an exhaustive list.

Hi Everyone! I noticed that one of your members recently recommended the IFS & I'm hoping that I might be able add some value to this website by further promoting this particularly effective method of cultivation. Best Wishes, Giles

There now seems to be a 50:50 split (2 in favour of IFS, 2 against IFS and one seemingly neutral but open to the possibility, at this stage)? Let me start with Wu Ming Jen (I'll return to discuss ridesforever's points later because there are certainly some grains of truth in his assertions, which need to be addressed). For your information, the way that I view and use IFS is fundamentally somatic, so perhaps that tips the balance?

I'm wondering if you have a history of feeling tricked by those who you consider should have been trustworthy? IFS isn't about any tricks, special or otherwise. It's about getting (and staying) in touch with your Self. It's yourSelf that's the healer not the therapist. Ironically, IFS makes therapists & therapy redundant because it's Self-therapy. In that respect it's an extremely useful model for anyone with trust issues. In practice, that's everyone because nobody had/has perfect parents.

So true! And synchronicity led me to this thread just after I came across this article, which I hope adds a bit more of value to it.

You seem to have noticed that some of the posters here have reactive parts of their personality which are triggered when they interact with this forum (because other parts of their personalities feel threatened by what they read). The Internal Family System therapy model considers that there are two main types of reactions to such perceived threats (which are attempts to protect these damaged, exiled parts of that poster’s personality that feel threatened). The first type of reaction is viewed as a managerial reaction. The second type of defensive reaction is more extreme and it is viewed as a firefighting reaction. In practice, its often difficult to distinguish between these two types of defensive reactions, so it can be useful also to view defensive reactions simply as nurturing and/or protecting. This reframe often provides the space to allow sufficient perspective, compassion and empathy to avoid getting sucked into traumatising or re-traumatising situations. Its also essential to be aware that these managerial and firefighting parts of the personality are vital to the well-being of the damaged, exiled parts of peoples' personalities. Once these damaged, exiled parts are reclaimed and Self-healed, the managers and firefighters are free to take up roles that are infinitely more enjoyable and fulfilling. Eventually the parts may even coalesce into an integrated, Self-actualised, Self-directed whole.

Jin Shin Jyutsu is a related energy balancing method, as is IFS Therapy, although even the founder of IFS (Richard Schwartz) has not yet (July 2019) realised its full potential.

You are entirely correct! There are no new ideas in IFS but some existing ideas have certainly been rearranged in quite a clever way to produce a simple theory & a reproducable technique to deliver an effective (evidence-based) Self therapy system. IFS training costs are a bit less than £500/day. Introductory Seminar (1 day) £70 - £75/day Level 1 Training (15 days) £174 - £187/day Level 2 Training (5 days) £230/day Level 2 Training (10 days) £215/day Level 3 Training (5 days) £330/day You can confirm the costs in Sterling and check my calculations by going to the UK Training website at https://internalfamilysystemstraining.co.uk/booking/#table-courses People attending these courses actually practice this therapy with each other but in any case IFS is fundamentally Self therapy. As for Self bypassing, obviously nobody is immune from having some blind spots. Perhaps if you check-in with your Self (& with other people’s Self to double-check) you’ll discover some of your own?

This is the standard view of the burdened system.

Starting with a possible visualisation of an unburdened Internal Family System seems to be a reasonably sensible approach.

You'll find a lot of information to get you started here https://selfleadership.org/about-internal-family-systems.html

If working with the IFS, it's vital to understand that Protectors are not considered to be negativity-filled but instead they're welcomed as valuable contributors to wellbeing. They may however be burdened by the weight of their duties & the goal of IFS is to unburden them (after unburdening any Exiles they protect) so that they're free to adopt less onerous functions (because the Exiles are then no longer in need of their protection).

I recommend that you start here https://selfleadership.org/about-internal-family-systems.html. Where you go from there is up to you (yourSelf). I'm happy to dialogue further about that if you like, especially if you want to explore the method experientially, as opposed to just intellectually. Of course, it would also be essential to engage your intellect in that case & because the only prerequisite for a Level 1 IFS training would be to read two of Dick's books, Internal Family Systems Therapy (1995) & Introduction to the Internal Family Systems Model (2001), I recommend doing that as step 2 before considering starting to experiment with your own psyche. Step 3 would be to read Internal Family System Skills Training Manual (2017) by Frank Anderson, Martha Sweezy & Dick Schwartz.

Thanks to you @Fa Xin & to @rideforever who made some particularly interesting comments. I'm sorry that you later chose to to delete a post because I found that one particularly interesting & useful. However, if using the IFS model, it's vital to understand that all parts (both blended & unblended) are invaluable to ourselves & to each other so I'd like to thank both those parts (the part that posted & the part that deleted). Thank you @rideforever. To pick up on what I recall you said, I can't disagree that many people overintelectualise & overconceptualise IFS & that most practioners are financially dependent on their clients, which is a fundamental problem with all psychotherapy. That's one of the reasons that I choose to focus on IFS for its spiritual dimension rather than upon what I see as the beneficial psycological side-effects & why I also limit myself to working with no more than 4 people (although there are also other reasons for ensuring that I impose that limit on myself).

Firstly, let me say that from my personal perspective IFS is fundamentally Self-therapy & I'm seriously out of pocket, especially as I charge on a sliding scale and I often work pro bono because I find it both interesting & fulfilling. Again from my personal perspective I consider that the faster that someone is able to access sufficient Self to unburden their parts & becomes an ex-paying or ex-pro bono client, the happier am I. I'm prepared to offer to discuss IFS with you (or anyone else here) informally (& pro bono) if youre interested in deepening your undestanding of IFS because one of the reasons that I decided to join this forum was to explore whether or not it's possible to discuss this system helpfully in this sort of environment. Another reason is that if anyone takes me up on this offer I'd probably find it both interesting and enlightening. However, please be aware that I will not work professionally with anyone except face-to-face and I personally consider that even videoconferencing therapy is almost invariably entirely unethical. So, any such discussion would NOT be therapy NOR a substitute for therapy. If you're interested in taking up this offer, I'd start by suggesting that you'd certainly find it more useful to consider whether you're manifesting a blended Protector at the moment (instead of focusing on the theoretical possibility of accessing preverbal Exiles). If not, then I wish you every sucess with the other things which you say you must explore.

Thanks for the video. I'll certainly watch it later! I'm not familiar with Bonnie's book, so I can't comment on it but if you're struggling with this particular do-it-yourself approach, you might be better finding another workbook (e.g. Jay Earley's Self-Therapy Volume 1, 2nd Edition, which also has a free downloadable companion workbook that you can find on his website) or someone competent in IFS to work with directly. I offer a free 50 minute introductory session to potential clients (but I should add that for ethical reasons, I can't take on any of the membership here).

For Fa Xin & any other interested parties a short introduction to IFS can be found on Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Family_Systems_Model As you have a Systems Forum here, I wonder if that might be the best place for me to develop on my introduction?