Mskied

Unless you study directly under the Master, more often than not, the only one that understands the exact intention and application is the prophet

Ive decided to alter the Mass of the Phoenix a little bit. "There is no anger, there is no lust. This is the Law; Do What Thou Must." Why do I say this? Because I don't think that the Law is meant to provide for us to wander around lawlessly without reason or knowing what we do, and I don't think it is meant to promote hate or anger in our logical actions- we are indeed meant to do what we think it reasonable, and do it with precision and purpose- not wantonly or domineering.

At this point I am deciding that God, or Goddess- wants the best for their children, and wants for them what they want for themselves. In supporting our willfulness, we find ourselves doing things that may contradict the emotional and intellectual intelligence of others, which can cause psychic confusion/chaos to the observer. This is what I say about misunderstanding, and the Tree of Life is nothing if not about comprehending and handling things we do not understand. To climb this tree it is helpful to realize that we do not understand, and to practice the virtues of contemplation, and patience, and mercy- for human life is not born of Evil, and so we should look on the Good of what people do.

Good rules start with Love. Good Laws start with Love. Love is the motive for much of our ideas, but as we age, other things come into play, specifically; survival. Therefore let us think upon what is needed to survive: food, shelter, clothing, medicine, and know that when we help provide these things, we are sharing in the loving impulse. If everyone were to help one another secure these needs, we could focus on the art of Love, and we might find ourselves with a peaceful society. So often it is the chase of material goods, and actions that might lead to Love, but are improperly used, that harm our ability to feel and give Love, and that is why there are "Sins"- for these things lead us away from Love. The True Sin is not to Love, and not to aid one another, and follow the Laws that help protect one another from harm, and from Nature.

You are only right because someone lets you think you are -Mskied You will get what you believe, and be judged accordingly -Mskied Consciousness is separate from awareness, and all knowledge is Magick -Mskied There is no Chaos, just actions and their reactions that are not understood -Mskied

Why wouldn't Love be the Law of Satan? For isn't Love the Law of God? BTW can you teach/share/converse without throwing barbs?

Crowleys "God", or persona impersonating God, or whatever you want to call her, said "Do What Thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law" law [lô] NOUN the law (noun) · laws (plural noun) · the Law (noun) · Law of Moses (noun) · the Law of Moses (plural noun) (the law) the system of rules which a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties. "they were taken to court for breaking the law" · [more] "law enforcement" · "a license is required by law" synonyms: rules and regulations · system of laws · body of laws · constitution · [more] legislation · code · legal code · charter · jurisprudence antonyms: anarchy an individual rule as part of a system of law. "an initiative to tighten up the laws on pornography" synonyms: regulation · statute · enactment · act · bill · decree · edict · rule · ruling · [more] resolution · promulgation · measure · motion · dictum · command · order · stipulation · commandment · directive · pronouncement · ratification · proclamation · dictate · diktat · fiat · covenant · demand · bylaw · ordinance · ukase · pronunciamento systems of law as a subject of study or as the basis of the legal profession.Compare with jurisprudence. "he was still practicing law" · [more] "a law firm" synonyms: the legal profession · the bar · barristers and solicitors collectively statutory law and the common law.Compare with equity. synonyms: rules and regulations · system of laws · body of laws · constitution · [more] legislation · code · legal code · charter · jurisprudence antonyms: anarchy a thing regarded as having the binding force or effect of a formal system of rules. "what he said was law" informal (the law) the police. "he'd never been in trouble with the law in his life" synonyms: the police · the officers of the law · the forces of law and order · [more] law-enforcement officers · police officers · policemen · policewomen · the police force · the constabulary · the cops · the fuzz · the boys in blue · the long arm of the law · the (Old) Bill · the bobbies · the busies · the bizzies · the coppers · the rozzers · the force · plod · PC Plod · the heat · the pigs · the filth · Babylon a rule defining correct procedure or behavior in a sport. "the laws of the game" synonyms: rule · regulation · principle · convention · direction · instruction · guideline · practice a statement of fact, deduced from observation, to the effect that a particular natural or scientific phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions are present. "the second law of thermodynamics" synonyms: fact · verity · certainty · certitude · principle antonyms: lie · falsehood · old wives' tale a generalization based on a fact or event perceived to be recurrent. "the first law of American corporate life is that dead wood floats" the body of divine commandments as expressed in the Bible or other religious texts. Therefore there is no Law other than the one you declare, which means do what you like. I dont have time to argue with people that dont understand this basic and simple phrase.

Nungali said that there is no Left and Right and that it was racist, which I haven't figured out how that works, but I wanted to give an illustration of what I believe represents this concept well. The LHP is spiked with the aspect of Pride, while the RHP practices Humility. These are conflicting auras. Crowley tried to take the conventional White Brotherhood, which would be the practice of Humility and turn it to what they would call Black- he switched the two around, saying that the old White was Black, because it inhibited liberty, and for the magician that desires freedom, that is Black Magic. This doesn't float well, because his White Brotherhood still practices Black Magick, which is essentially some form of control or manipulation of other peoples Will. What he failed to see is that those who are of the old White CHOOSE to be, and so it is not a manipulation, but a submission- for they recognize the graces in Humility. He opposed their indoctrination of children into their system, but their method of influence is no less indoctrinating than his. And so, we should return to the old system, because White is absence and Black is absorption, and to be a Black Magician is to absorb all the colors where White refuses to be stained by certain behaviors. Why is White revered? Because Pride leads to the Christian Sins: Greed, Vanity, Lust- and when these fail, the "Sinner" falls to Sloth and Envy, and these things work against the peace of society, for they create jealousy, violence, apathy, unfair distribution of wealth, sexual combat and disease, and a world based on appearances rather than kindness, generosity, and Good Will. Both the Proud and the Humble can be kind and generous, but the Humble person is less likely to be blinded by the obstacles of the Proud- seeing people as living beings with individual worth rather than what they appear to be, or can contribute. Also, the Proud are more in line with the contest that causes death. Its an old equation, and it rings true.

After I had retraced all of my choices, figuring on how I came to be who I am, I recognized that not only are we reacting to people of misunderstanding and their actions but I am misunderstanding as well, and so the potential for confusion is great. The vast net of Chaos is spread, and innovation comes into play as we deal with 1. Our expectations 2. The expectations of others 3. The implementation of ideas based on these expectations. This is a potentially explosive mixture, especially at a young age, and those choices affect our adulthood, sometimes, we never recover to Truth. Now, this is from a lovers point of view, there is always those that seek power, and have no concern for love. These people will do seemingly irrational things to gain control, and the lover will suffer. Unfortunately, the Law of Strength is such that the strong choose the course, and so the best combination is to know Love and to know Strength, so that Love will prevail and the irrational and selfish do not. This is done by measuring the Good for both parties in light of kindness and generosity, using gentle Wisdom to share rather than brute force. My neighbor has two modes: soft spoken common language and explosive screaming, she cant seem to find a way to calmly address conflict. My parents were the same way, and I reacted to that and made choices about the world that was untrue. Not all people are irrational and explosive. My parents had good intentions, but they were incapable of communicating them calmly. I see it in our public forum all the time. Anger begets anger, arrogance begets criticism, pride begets a challenge- these things might win submission, or they might win an attempt at vindication and revenge- better to stay calm and Wise. Unfortunately the threat of violence is intimidating. And so I cam to humble myself out of the horror at the potential for disaster. I see art as stirring this pot. I see public debating and criticism as contributing to that anger and ignorance, and I see a lack of calm, clear minded people that want stability, and as has been shown with our president, people feed into this kind of personality for protection. There is a sore lack of kindness in this world- the West is too fast in its attempt to move forward that we forget that not all of us can keep this pace. We lack compassion in so many ways, and make excuses not to help someone that cannot help themselves. I sit waiting, wishing that we would monitor our voices more, for the un-exorcised child within us likes to play, and on the playground sometimes its fun to be mean. My friend likes to play the jester. He does it because he see what I see, but what he does in response to it is inflict pain for their inflicting of pain. Not only does this attitude color his perception, he contributes to the pain, rather than providing a cure. Every time we jab at someone we cause harm, whether it is out of good humor or not- you are insulting that person for your perception of their ignorance, which may or may not be true ignorance. Rather than earnest working toward resolution, we become bullies, and whatever wisdom we possess is colored by our arrogance. There is joy in pride, but there is also joy in being earnest, and seeing beauty blossom. In conclusion, it is wise to reflect on the choices we have made on a regular interval. We should never be so convinced that we took every step correctly. We should also work on our temperament, for it will cause a reaction that might lead to confusion, and more pain for someone. Every time we speak to one another we have power, and a chance to create- Love, or fear, or hate, or confusion- its all Magick, and we are the magicians.

So what is my Great Truth of the moment? There are three: We exchange love for power. We want love, but the lure of power is too overwhelming. We are machines, and the God can absolutely control it all.

I did indeed die when I ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil; I am not at all the person I once was. The demons destroyed me, over, and over again, inflicting pain and confusion and madness: Chaos. Do I like who I have become? At this point it doesn't matter, for I have lost all my assets, though I have gained some insight into the troubles of the world, I find no strength left to do anything other than post my thoughts on public forums. But then, when God spoke, I declared I would do this for free, and what other place than here? Foolishness, foolishness; the bold, noble ambitions of youth. For none can know until it is revealed, and by then it is too late. We are fools, all of us, even the ones that try.

I was walking down the street when this crazy eyed Native American started stalking me, trying to get me to stop. He started staring at my pendant of the heptagram that I was wearing and stuttering, finally he asks "Are you a Jew?" and then he stops and stares hard and then in fear and awe glares up at me and says "No... that's Satans Star." and backed away in fear. So now I feel compelled to write my interpretation of the myth of Genesis from the point of view of Magick and Kabbalah. Let it be known that all words are Magick; all knowledge is Magick, and the Tree of Life is not only "life" in the sense of a "Good life" but also you and I: we are the Tree of Life, for it is our species that is the entertainment of the Gods, and we bring them joy and anger. So when the Serpent of Wisdom, which is demonized by the Jews probably because it is not only a dangerous path, but also one that will lead to conflicting with the Order established by their Prophets, is named Satan, it is unfair- for this same Serpent is the one that these very Jews interacted with that brought us Wisdom. From my own experience, I was initiated when I was challenged on my concept of Good and Evil, and so I have an intimate relationship with the concept of the Garden of Eden and the Tree (as well as the Serpent). I wouldn't say I was an ignorant Man, but I was not that knowledgeable, especially about Magick and science- though I did have my own "Magickal mind". I was indeed in a Garden of delight, my life was exactly as I had wanted it to be, but then after this provocation I was contacted by the Divine and sent on this journey, which has wound up a tragedy, hence I understand the warning- don't dance with the snake!

I mean think about it. He and his disciples imagined that they spawned Hitler.

I don't feel attacked. I said I was grateful for the discourse. Im not going to point out where I get what I believe because he likes to invalidate it at every turn. Words are words, and Crowley wrote a lot of them, and in order to see what he intends, one has to discern the spirit in which he is proposing his ideas, and I have pointed out passages that indicate that, from which I get my sense of what he wants. As I said, its easy to say "Good" but for Crowley and for the reader, what that Good is, is debatable. Everyone wants "Good" everyone wants "happiness" how we get there will vary. For that, he is not wrong. Its in books like Magick without tears, and the book of the Law that you see what he intends. He wants contest, not co-operation, dominance, and let the submissive submit. Its been said that he appealed to weak willed people, probably because they were easy to control, and probably because they wanted strength. This is fine, and I am not really arguing about it, I just feel that Nungali is 1. Not comprehending Satanism from a Christian, Jewish point of view and 2. Not acknowledging what this law of contest will lead to. This is about power, and the use of power, and what you do in its acquisition, and how you implement power, and there is enough evidence that he really doesn't care what you do, so long as you encourage other people to be powerful too (as one of his disciples). Is this fine? IDK, you judge.

And how exactly does Crowley define the words that you reference? Words like "Good" and "Mercy" and "balance"? What is his definition of righteousness. Seek this, and you will peer into the truth of what I say. Seek it in yourself as well, which is what he wants. His words are as true as any religion when it comes to "Good" and "Truth" and "Righteousness" but what he defines these things as, and what they define them as, are vastly different. This is all I am going to say on this subject. If you don't see what Im saying that is your business, to each their own. Carry on if you like, Im moving on.

He helps these people help themselves, and he doesn't have much sympathy for those that don't. That means if you put others first, his disciples will take, and he doesn't ever say anything about giving back, and he abhors compassion. So yeah, he helps THE MAGICIAN, just as I said, and expects contest, not mercy. He believes that if you don't find a way to get your Will you don't deserve to have one, and so... take advantage.

Anyway... Crowley writes that there is no grace, there is no guilt, free us from the evil and the good, the law is do what thou wilt. He also writes that reason is deplorable (as I quoted from the Book of the Law). Crowley doesn't want "good" or "evil" he wants action, and the freedom to act, and he isn't concerned with outcome except that it benefits the magician, which I address in my East to West thread. This isn't conscionable from the stance of people working and living together, and it creates the "ills" that you and I witness against ourselves and others. If that aint Satanic, IDK what is. Sure, somewhere in his hodgepodge of ideas is the thought that a person will come to some "right" behavior, but that isn't his emphasis nor his desire- his desire is liberty and power. True Will is my Will and want made real, and nowhere does he recommend concern for others, in fact, he despises it, which is why he is so anti-Christian.

Satan appears in the Bible, was discussed by the rabbis of the Talmud and is explored in detail in Jewish mysticism, or Kabbalah. In Hebrew, the term Satan is usually translated as “opponent” or “adversary,” and he is often understood to represent the sinful impulse (in Hebrew, yetzer hara) or, more generally, the forces that prevents human beings from submitting to divine will. He is also sometimes regarded as a heavenly prosecutor or accuser, a view given expression in the Book of Job, where Satan encourages God to test his servant.

Id like to apologize to Nungali. Message boards aren't the best place to communicate. Anyway, I see where he felt that I was claiming to be something that he has his understanding of. I thought it was apparent in my posts that I was no disciple but I did indeed come off sounding like I was. Im a disciple of my own design and as should also be apparent, my design is confounded by mental illness. I overheard in a dream that I have a schizophrenic process. This is because I was glamoured by the idea of Chaos as an actual purposeful force of nature, and I contemplated this force for many years which got me into a wandering mind set. This turned out well I suppose, in the end, but it was unnecessary. I explain all of this in my East to West post, which is what he is referring to. So anyway I am grateful for the argument about what this or that system claims to be the point of their study, because I never really finished my review of any of them, though I think I got pretty far along in Thelema. As far as the Satan thing goes, you have to remember that this is a Jewish word, and not a Thelemic word, and according to their concept of such a creature, Thelema would indeed fit in with Satanism. Whether it is meant to be what they fear or not is debatable, as Crowley doesn't put limitations on his disciples- they very well could fit that definition- something Nungali disputes, but Ive met enough to know it is possible. I myself have thought long on the definition of Satan and I have come to agree that Thelema, and paganism in general, fits with this definition to a large degree and what you have to ask yourself is: is that a bad thing? Satan is so spooky and is the root of Evil (supposedly) but I think He is the root of physics and knowledge, and is also the cause of a lot of confusion- because liberty and passion can be that way. I have no problems using the word Satan and neither should anyone. Now, from the meek humble and chaste Christian mind, it is bad- but how many of us fit that? Satan is a nature God, and a lustful one- that loves music and romance, adventure and yes, standing against what He doesn't believe in, and as the World now sees; Christianity and Judaism are not perfect. So anyway, apologies for these misunderstandings and thank you for sharing your knowledge with us Nungali.

Nungali… I know you wont understand this, but you are a pseudo spiritual bully and Im not going to be baited into fighting with you over this type of thing, I don't need to prove to myself that I am strong or clever. Its ok, I predicted that this type of thing would follow earlier in this thread. People like you aren't meant to understand people like me

This post keeps getting funnier.

I wanted to finish my thoughts on the climb of the Tree of Knowledge, which is known as the knowledge of Good and Evil. I believe this is the Tree of the Jewish Kabbalah in Genesis that Adam and Eve ate from. So what is the Tree of Life? Well I assume that it is the same tree, but it might not be. There are three ways to interpret Good and Evil: What is Good for me but not for you What is Good for you but not for me What is Good for both of us As a thinker that considered the Law of Thelema, which is Do What Thou Wilt, I realized that this could have disastrous connotations in the wrong hands. Why is it disastrous? Because people that use this Law might be of the Good for me bad for you type. When it comes to what is Good, one has to ask what the fundamental idea of Good really is. Some would say "I like cake, and cake is Good" well this will be true for them, but not all people like cake, and that is fine, because they do not have to eat it. What is Good for me alone is Good for me, and I choose that- though obviously if all we did was eat cake we might not be of good health. So the Good that is of concern is of both me and others. Now if I am a non-desiring type of person, it is easy enough for me to give and give and expect nothing from it, is that Good for me? That depends on the person, but most people like to desire, and want something, especially from what they give. If I give and give, you would think "Hey, that is Good!" because you got without effort, though some things produce a bad result, and for this we have to consider whether we aught to give something that might not be Good for the other. If you are a desiring person, you might simply take, and not return anything. Is this Good? Not for the other person it isn't, and I believe that this is the goal: all people benefit, for in a community, all people are part of the same co-operative puzzle. So let us keep in mind that Good entails both parties, and hopefully all life in general. I thought about what the wisest thing I could say would be, and I think it is this "The best person is one that is concerned with all life". We cannot define Good very well without its opposite: Evil, and when you think of Evil what do you think of? Most likely it is something harmful or oppressive. Therefore when you think of Good, it would be something that assists me, and is Good for my well being. This then is how the Laws should be formed, and it contradicts Do What Thou Wilt, for it is a basis of action that considers others as well as the self. Again, the Adept (yes I am using this word to define my own process, buzz off nungali) should want to defeat Chaos, Chaos being destructive and confusing- and to do this we discover how to go about the interaction between myself and others in light of the Good, and I decided the best approach to this is from a standpoint of kindness, for when we hold kindness in our minds and hearts, we will be sincere, and we will understand how to explain with Wisdom, and we will know that what we choose to do is with the intention of the best result for both parties.

I guess this brings me back to our first encounter: you either know or you don't.

What you are doing is taking my reference to a system and my explanation and accusing me of saying something I didn't say. If you read my ENTIRE post you will see that I freely admit not to have been a disciple of any system, and experienced something on my own and navigated it, on my own, and share what I say about it, and reference it to what is written. Again, I never used the word Adept, and initiation doesn't have to mean I AM INITIATED INTO ___________ system and am Master of said system! Since you claim to be so versed in these things, you should know that they all have a common thread that motivated their conception, and that not all systems agree on what to find. It may be that I am an Abyss baby, I don't know. I think its the most laughable part of the whole thing to declare that someone doesn't know their True Will. How the Hell do you know? How the Hell does anyone know other than the person that stops and says "This is my Will". Until you've been devoured by the Godhead and fought the Demon Serpent for 20 years, don't tell me what my Will is, because having undergone this, my Will should probably be to find the red button that sets off the nukes and damn this whole place! This is NOT a pretty journey, its bloody, and as any beaten prisoner, you either LOSE your Will, or you FIGHT your oppressors. I don't think there is any way to cross the Abyss into some golden era of life- its submit and die and lick your wounds, whimpering about how unjust this all was and why people need to be nicer. That, or run around like an angry madman.

I will give you my two cents. These things do not appear to be able to be controlled. I have tested my psychic abilities quite a bit, having met a yogi that not only read my mind (seriously) but also predicted my future rather accurately. I think to be that developed you would have to be a pretty serious disciple or monk of some kind, and I just don't know if tarot readers are the ones to go to. Tarot is a baseline that all people travel, and in the tarot are things that are commonly experienced of anyone over the age of 25, so when they say "you need to rest, this has been a journey that has tapped you" or "something in your future will be trying" its obvious that these things are constantly bound to happen or have happened to anyone with an active lifestyle, especially someone seeking advice from a psychic. The thing about the canoe got my attention though. But as I said, for me its been hit or miss. Sometimes I am directly told things, and they are real or something for me to consider, but when I seek these things they do not always come, and so I don't put faith in my ability. To be honest these types of systems are best suited for personal spiritual development rather than contacting a Divine being or predicting outcomes. They are very useful at forming a world view of yourself on this planet and what you will encounter, and your options to address them.