Mskied

Thanks and like I said, I never used the word Adept, but I will never say I wasn't initiated. Ive also said in the posts he refers to that I really don't know much about any system, or didn't, until I chose to investigate it AFTER the fact of initiation. The thing about initiation is that there is a coven that can do it, and it can be done individually, and that really, almost anyone that has begun to study can call themselves an initiate, so I don't think he is within rights to poke at me for saying hey, I experienced these things and relate to them from a certain point of view that is described by people of a certain method. I get that I like to line things up neatly and declare them, and why shouldn't I be able to? All of this is subjective, really, and none of it seems to be a permanent bench to sit on, what with climbing and descending grades and ideas, so for them to say that my conjecture isn't a sign of knowledge is sort of foolish as well. I get that a system is organized and orderly and I know that, being someone of the tantric or dramatic/experiential model I lack that, but that doesn't mean I haven't seen what I have seen, and just because he hasn't seen it, doesn't mean I haven't. I do feel like I pulled the trigger a little fast but that's because Ive been sorely accused of not knowing what I am talking about, and when it comes to referencing other systems, I suppose that is a valid argument, though I am just looking to corelate my own experiences with what is written, and have a conversation about those things. Frankly I don't see anything wrong with it but "by the book" types do, and that is their loss, because what I bring is fire and creativity and genuine words of description rather than applying someone elses description to what I am looking to know. Anyway it doesn't really matter, as none of this holds together under deep analysis. By none of this, I mean that you cannot cover all bases, and really its difficult for two people to unite under a co-operative understanding, especially with the vast contributions to this field of study. Consider me to be like this: imagine if none of these books had been written, and I was the first person to experience these things and am trying to define what I know and share it. That is me, and my words are original, and I recognize that I work at a disadvantage, but that cannot be avoided. Take it or leave it, but please don't put words in my mouth. My experiences are genuine, and Im sure yours are too, and you don't hear me naysaying that what you have witnessed is not true.

When I was talking about raising children and Law I was talking about other material laws and rules, I didn't make that clear. You've made me consider my idea that kindness is not the natural truth. The kindness that I am referring to is muted and not passionate like children like to be. I also don't see children responding well to being muted, but I think that in order to get them to focus we need to practice kindness with Wisdom to instruct them. In retrospect I do not think that my idea will fly anymore, because people don't want muted lives. But they also don't want anger and violence. I need to work on this theory a little better I guess, thank you for the pointers.

I don't need to explain or justify myself, I do it because I am a nice guy and look for people of understanding that want to share their world with me. Ive encountered people like Nungali a lot on my journey, and all they do with my kindness is abuse it because they see my willingness to converse as a weakness, and they attack me and belittle me. Well guess what? Ive been suffering with this encounter with Deity for 20 years and there is no pain you can inflict upon me with your doubts and jealousy that is going to harm me. I don't need your criticism about what I know to be true, and its not my problem if you cant read what I say and hear my words. If you don't like what I write then go away, I don't need your input, Im just here to make my observations and look for friends. Nungali I know I ruffled your feathers when I said you either know what the heptagram is good for or you don't, and while I understand you have researched it and adopted the lessons attributed to it by your masters, that doesn't mean that there isn't more to it that I know, or that I am not my own kind of master of it. People seem to think that if its written in a book then it must be fact, and while that is not quite a mistake, it is certainly a mistake to think that people communicating online or in person do not know what they are talking about. No, I am not trained by a Master, and yes, I have researched this to a degree to have similar encounters with the knowledge that others have presented, but I do not consider myself their disciple and I don't have to. I am my own person with my own lens and my own method, just as they are, and they may or may not have learned from experience as I have, more than likely it is just research and imagination. This does not make me less valid, and I tire of people like you that think it does. When I encounter people like you I wish to God I could throw you into what Ive been thrown into, just to shut them up. Part of me would want to laugh and poke fun at all your observations the way you and others do to me, but the real me is the one that leaves messages like this behind, so that when it does happen, you have a compassionate ear.

This thread has become rather humorous as I don't recall naming myself anyone other than someone that has been initiated. Get off your high horses please Im just sharing. All that is written are just systems organized with methods to climb the mountain of experience that is found in initiation, and they are all simple opinion on what that will become and entail. Some people experience Magick, and some people just read about it. I am nothing but transparent in my conversations.

Ive been struggling with this new peace Ive come to. For the past 20 years Ive been afflicted by thoughts from other entities, trying to define what was happening as I was ill prepared to enter the Abyss and be afflicted. I might have said this, but I spent about 15 years contemplating the reason for Chaos, dabbling and reading and experimenting and contemplating a wide variety of books and ideas to resolve my dilemma. It took a long time to even decide that I wanted to study this- as I had been given no choice, I did it anyway. Part of my confusion was that I have always been cautious when committing to a system, having been uncertain who to trust. I remember when, and it was about 10 years in, and being heavily afflicted, that I decided to dive in and believe. I practiced renunciation because the Demons were so wild and untamable that I had to run from them (though there is no running from your mind). I declared that even if these definitions and descriptions of things were not true, the fact that someone else believes them makes them true because I have to interact with those that believe. This was a huge victory for me. Another victory, which I may have said, was in deciding that there is no Chaos. I mean yes, there is actions and events that I don't know the origin of, but that doesn't mean that there is no origin. This helped resolve the years I spent justifying the reason for Chaos- which I have resolved to be that God loves invention; that Chaos is necessary because we are still unraveling things, and moving forward in our discovery. Five years ago I really put my back into understanding the systems that I had been contemplating. I found that I could understand ritual implements and prayer repetition, symbolic language and ceremony, and the various methods other people had used to enlighten themselves. This gave me more respect for that culture. I started gathering my own altar objects and recently threw them all out because I found it too confining. Everything I need is in my mind, I don't need objects and never have, but it was fun to play with. Once I gathered all my resources I was able to travel the Universe and name the design, and in this I found a strong sense of place. This door was opened when I resolved what mathematics and physics were. I know that we are sensing creatures, but naming the material process really helped me settle my mind on placement in the material world. Another breakthrough was in my social studies, when I had been struggling with whether there was a Creator that declared the Law of Life to be Do What Thou Wilt, and what that implied. Ive always been free to do what I like, but what I like isn't necessarily total freedom, it is some sort of politeness and servitude to others. This is obviously the strong thread of most Wisdom traditions, and Crowley bucks these. As I had been given the word of the Aeon about 18 years ago, I took it as scripture, and I needed to reconcile this. I realized that while it is true I can do what I like, there are consequences, and as I said, I went from what is termed the LHP to the RHP. This is a term I use that isn't absolute, but I do like the way it is set up in the manner I view it: LHP being liberty and RHP being duty. In Kabbalah the left hand is said to be the pillar of Mercy, so there is some confusion on my part about whether this is all accurately defined. When I realized the role of community and that it had its own Laws as compared to the LHP, I had a vision of my "mentor" Aliester Crowley sign his name on my soul saying that I had rediscovered conscience. These types of visions come unbidden and I have to put faith in them because of what I have seen over the years, which aren't a lot of instances, and Ive hallucinated my share of personal imaginings to know when I imagine something or when it is actual. After resolving physics I moved on to the planets and put myself in a cosmic space, and after I recognized duty again, I found that I could resolve most any dilemma I felt I encountered. I had to brush up on the Law and systems of our government to resolve some issues about what our democracy should allow, and whether it was Good, and when I finished with the major issues about the various bigotries, prejudices and dissention of our day, I started slowing down. Astraly though, things were picking up and I was again greatly afflicted with more information that I didn't want to organize. I wound up in the hospital again and when I got home I very determinedly declared that I simply could not participate in this any longer, and they gathered the spirits that were afflicting me and put them aside, and each day I grow stronger in my peace, and also my complacency. I am at a point of mental silence that does not want to be disturbed, but it is difficult for me to sit silently as I like to be active. I am now working on my emotional body and my reasons for action and interaction with others. I write this more as a journal than anything, and hope to hear from sincere people on their reactions to my words, maybe find someone with some common situations.

And what do you think you are Nungali?

I believe intuition has a rule set, though Im not certain its the same for everyone. If it were, we could then declare the natural Law of what we should desire from events and people.

Its a pretty simple concept to grasp, but a hard one to avert. We are the product of everything around us, and the people that represent what we find ourselves interacting with, and the reactions to their actions and our expectations of who they should be and how they act, as well as the way they react to our actions that are a reaction to theirs. Getting out of this web is hard enough, but harder still is to design a web that is more in line with what is acceptable to you, and to us. Also hard is convincing anyone that this would be the way it "should" be. In order to accomplish this one needs to decide what is Good, declare the Law of the people, and define each role in that society according to the expectation that their actions will result in the perfect vision of the Good you declared.

BTW if anyone is bothering to read this, I am asking to have it moved to my own space in the personal page section. If this post is missing, look for me there.

I will try to write more from the "I" perspective. Its hard because I never use that term, never have. It has always been "Lets go here" when I talk to myself, or "We should..." when I talk to others. There never has been much of an I in me, which is kind of ignorant of the self, probably one of the reasons this all occurred to me. For better or worse, I haven't had much of a me, which lends itself to not having much to say about the you. I was always an easy going character as an adult, and after this process that I call initiation, I eventually, after many years of trails, became kind of determined to declare perfect wisdom. In the last year Ive woken up to the fact that there is Wisdom running around everywhere- in books, on tv, in music- and in conversation, daily. But what about "perfect Wisdom"? On the one hand, it depends on the eye of the beholder, and on the other, I strongly believe that there is an absolute. But then, once I declared it, I started seeing other absolutes, so I am no longer certain that there could be "one". I think it depends on what you desire, mostly, and what other people desire. Everything you choose and believe is what is real for you, and those that believe like you, and those things will bear fruit based on the structure of what I call your inner temple of knowledge. If you think A produces B, it will, most likely- but if your actual theory and what you practice are not in line, A wont produce B because A isn't the actual A you believe in. I feel that this is close to an absolute from the view of communal life. I don't think that there are that many absolutes that are true. One that I was told was that the strong will rule, that is an absolute. Another that Crowley presents is the Law of liberty- that we are free to do what we will, though whether others allow it is another story. I presented the Law of Kindness, which actually mostly applies to the raising of children, because as adults we toughen, and the absence of kindness isn't so drastic. Still when it is absent, darkness follows, and depending on how dark it is for you, violence and lawlessness will follow. In the West we have lightened up about lawless things, but that doesn't make the road that they lead to any less dark. Some people like the dark, and for them there are others that enjoy it too. I guess you could call these people demons. It all depends on what you value, and everything has a consequence.

When I say that I don't want to act on personal desire I mean a desire that will only garner my want without a return of the need of the individual I interact with. Its hard to escape doing things out of desire, for everything is motivated by a want based on desires or needs. Im still ironing our how this part works, at what point I can get my desire without using black magick. I don't want to use sorcery, for love is a gift and at the worst it should be a trade off, one that is willfully granted and not coerced from the hands of the lover. Finding the way to do this properly seems like an impossible ideal, for in all things there is an initiation and an expectation, and sorcery is such a part of human interaction. It almost makes more sense to just be powerful and seduce to get my desire without regards to what the other gets from it.

Yes this is why I have declared in my East to West thread that I have discovered the Law of Kindness, for there are two people involved in making Law correct: me and you. If I make a Law according to anything but kindness, it becomes about my want and Will, which is self motivated by my Ego wanting something from another person and asserting my Will onto them, which is sorcery and Black Magick. You say that LHP isn't lawless, that it is aware- it is aware of the want of the individual and not a Law that both can agree is Good. There is no escape from being submissive according to a Law that is Good for both me and you, unless you iron out the bars you will set when kindness is not returned. By making my Will to be kind, I am not asserting my Will for personal desire, and am honoring the other person as a living embodiment of Deity as I am. However, if that person does not partake in that Will of kindness, then I have to protect my interests lest I become their slave. I chose the Law of Kindness because it is the proper step forward in a society where two individuals come together and raise children (yes, sometimes just one). Obviously children will be lawless until they find a reason to be lawful, but in the rearing of that child we can either be tolerant and Wise and kind in our instruction and illustration of why Law is Good, or we can be unkind and cruel in our punishing and cause harm to their development to be kind people. This applies also to adults, who naturally expect kindness and are offended when it isn't offered. This system I have designed isn't an absolute, not all people are offended when kindness is lacking, and these people can still be considered lawful from a "my rights, your rights" point of view, it depends on what kind of relationship I want to have with that individual. I don't think we ever reach perfect Will, for there is always some new scenario to engage in that causes us to consider and choose paths of action. Anything less than considerate gentleness with calm Wisdom is going to bring my Will into conflict with yours, and there will be no understanding and shared enlightenment, just me oppressing you with my Will and want, which isn't an objective Law, it is a Law of the Self, which is a manifestation of what I would call the LHP, which isn't necessarily bad for the LHP magician unless I oppose that Will.

As far as conceiving and defining thought forms to control on the Astral Plane, I never had the chance to do that, as I was simply tossed into the Abyss and it was fight or flight. Every time I tried to do such a thing I was beaten and devoured.

Also I don't recall saying Im a Christian or anything much of anything with a name. Ill give you this much, I do speculate on the essential kernel that motivates named religions. For instance I went a little far when I said that the Law of JHVH is kindness, I really don't know because Ive never had that conversation with anyone named JHVH and I don't know any "Jews", though I have read that they revere the virtue. This weekend I realized that there are many Laws, and many prophets, and you will obviously need to pick the one you follow, this is just the most sensible Law I discovered, one that, if applied, would change the case of our existence, but obviously with people like Crowley running around, it wont. Im fine with Crowley- he sees things as what they are, and that is his whole premise, I believe- that everything is because it is, and everything under the Sun is perfectly what it should be, unless you hesitate, which is why I say this sounds more anti intellectual than not. Im not saying Crowley and Thelema worship a God named Satan, but from the vantage of a Judeo based religion, they probably would, and so I use that name, because it fits. I also use Satan because I have my own definition of the God, and it fits my definition, as I, and most of the Western World, have been exposed to, and are constantly interacting with, Christians. As far as my experiences, believe what you want.

line 27 chapter 2 the book of the law: There is great danger in me; for who doth not understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into the pit called Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason. line 32 chapter 2 the book of the law: Also reason is a lie; for there is a factor infinite & unknown; & all their words are skew-wise.

I have contacted deities and entities in the astral though I have not acted as a Deity myself. I don't practice envisioning as per GD method though.

The first observation of a good Adept is Chaos, for it is the result of Chaos that is suffering. Therefore let it be considered that what the Adept wants is Order. Life without suffering is like the natural flow of a stream unabated, but human beings don't want to just be a stream, they want to be the boat on the stream, for some of us are not desiring to be blind fish that follow, we want to control our own course. Black Magick is often considered to be when someone manipulates my Will to do theirs, and so White Magick is not that. Kant says that enlightened folk do not see each other as a means to an end. In both of these statements there are other things to consider, for we are not born knowing, or able to lead and teach, therefore we must submit to the Wise and listen on their method of making life a stream, where eventually we can paddle our own canoe together with the rest of society. There is another problem with what I mentioned; we must to some degree see one another as a means to an end, the end being the flow of the stream. I can stand in my confidence and be an individual that interacts with other individuals, but in all coming together there is usually some objective to experience together. Therefore we will always have to witness to the utility aspect of our joining in action and community. Obviously at the far end of manipulation in ways that would deter me from my health, there is, in my eyes, Evil intention, and so one must be aware of ones goals, and the general good of society. The Law of Satan is freedom. It is sensual and emotional, and in this method of action without reason and Law, it can cause Chaos, Chaos being that which disturbs the flow of the stream. However, Nature is not always a perfectly flowing stream, and Chaos is a necessary part of life, for it contributes to innovation, though how much of this we need is uncertain, for certainly we want that perfect flowing stream. In matters of innovation, one of the ways to navigate a positive result of Chaos is to consider what needs to be innovated, and this can be found by examining the needs of the community and the needs and wants of the self. The self has its own desires, and these do not always contribute to the better of the community, and so when the Adept makes their way towards attaining their want, they may cause Chaos if it is not in line with the Laws of the land, and the Law of kindness especially. Therefore let the artists and innovators pay attention to the common needs of human life for all, and all will benefit from them- this is how we avoid Black Magick, and reduce looking at one another as a means to an end that satisfy our desires.

Im not confused

It is if it means you stand against me or cause me confusion.

This sounds pretty accurate to me. What do you think?

First of all, there is no mistaken viewpoint. Second, I don't think anyone seems to have a problem with me posting my musings on one thread. If it is a problem then please move this to the personal practice section. I feel that I have responded to people that engage me, and its their right not to bother as it is mine not to take notice, if that is indeed the case. It feels like you are attacking me for some reason, I wonder what the beef is with you? As far as advertising myself, yes, I am offering myself up for conversation. What brings you here?

Follow me on facebook if you like @ Markus Malarkus

What I just wrote is the Law of Kindness. It is the Law of Kether, and in the Tree of Life, it is the Law of JHVH. Do What Thou Wilt is the Law of Satan, and it begins in the lowest aspect of the Tree. There are three tiers of ascension in my Tree: When you reach Gevurah you realize power, and Love, and as you go about using your power for what you Love, you might make mistakes according to the Law of Kindness. When you climb the Tree you reach contact with the Divine, and they employ punishment and you require Mercy. When you have purged yourself with fire and named the Law of Kindness, Gevurah becomes Strength and Chesed becomes Kindness- as Above so Below.

Humility and kindness is a path, and for those who tread it, the idea that it has great power is recognized. It has power because this is the ideal, and it garners respect and admiration. Some people use these things as a method of getting within a group to take control, or to manipulate their acquaintance, friend, or companion. Sometimes the adept isn't fully cognizant of their method, and make mistakes. Both of these actions cause harm in the trust of others whom beheld someone to admire and found fault, becoming skeptical of kindness and altruism. This turns them sour, and they can become mischievous and malicious, often mocking sincerity- which can lead to cynicism and skepticism, creating more doubt, and soon all sincerity is lost, as is the genuine appreciation of the sincere. These are the obstacles those on the path face. The truth is there is no temptation to abuse power; I am kind because I have been treated kindly, not because I want something from you. All else leads to darkness.