Mskied

There is the spirit of things, as seen in what surrounds you, except for the human. The human is the amalgamation of the spirit of their surroundings, and when you examine these in the human form, you can examine your own form, and the human that they represent in the surroundings, which will lead you to Law, and the result of the consequences of obeying or disobeying these Laws. Good, Evil, and Chaos.

Everyone goes to Heaven because All is Chaos

Every action causes a reaction that can benefit and hinder, and all action can be validated from a certain point of view, therefor the constant state of life is Chaos, and none of us are guilty or guiltless, for in Heaven all things will be reconciled because we will all know that it was simply just the journey of life.

Hi Im wondering if there is anyone familiar with a system that is meant to be advanced where the adept no longer thinks. Ive been initiated into the Kabbalah and Ive experienced advanced Kundalini and fought the serpent to attain wisdom, but the serpent fights back, and now I am forced not to move my mind lest it keep devouring. I was given over to Thelema, and I know that Therion wanted an end to reason, and I wonder if there are some other systems I could explore that does not want the adept to access their mind. Ive fortunately finished my studies and no longer seek knowledge, but Im also kept from an interest in writing or broadening my information base, and have to practice a mental stillness, which is quite boring and not at all the promised land of liberty and creativity. Thanks in advance

Its all Wisdom. There is no end to the Abyss

glad I gave you a good laugh. Its all a joke anyway.

Its interesting because I am being accused of not comprehending, and I could say the same to you. Understanding is in the eye of the beholder sometimes, especially with such work as what Crowley produced. If he was actually intending for us to be kind and generous concerned individuals he would have just said so. Instead he pours his hate on Christianity, a religion where those aims are their goals, so how can you not read this as what is? I get that Crowley wants people to live and be passionate, and to love what they love and do what they love, but it is not out of reason to interpret the Law that allows him to say to do this to also allow to do other things. It is less that Crowley promotes this as it is his Law that will allow it. I know Crowley said to kill for your desire, to fight anyone that stands in your way, and he doesn't especially limit this to getting lovers or doing loving things; he says to do this if anyone stands in the way of your Will. Its not that complex. Does he promote going on a homicidal rampage? If you investigate his view on why actions occur, he would probably tell you that it is your fault that we created a homicidal character, and so the homicidal character is the result of the Will of the Universe, and that this character is in line with his True Will. Why does someone go on a rampage? Because they feel wronged, mostly, and hate for some obsessive reason. Crowley would say that we created him. Crowley is not recommending even doing anything to change what we do that might create such a person. He isn't even concerned with our adjusting our actions to fall in line with laws- he says deliver us from the evil and the good, there is no guilt, do what thou wilt. Why cant you see what this inspires? He wants us to do what we think we should, and that we will learn what we can do and what will be allowed. I don't think he cares about laws, he cares about Will to do. It doesn't take much imagination to see what the result of this might be. Will it produce something Good? Perhaps, and perhaps not. Crowley doesn't care really, because he doesn't think there is such a thing. He says what is Good for the individual is what is Good. I have defended this for a long time, and I still will say we cant be certain what the outcome of an apparently evil deed might be, but doing these things is in direct contradiction with Wisdom- which is what he wants, because he believes there is no perfect Wisdom. Err on the side of love someone said, but it wasn't Crowley. Nungali is the one that cant see these things, he thinks Crowley was harmless, and hes wrong, and to accuse me of not understanding the text and for you to support him when it is evident that I do upsets me, because I am not wrong, but I will let the reader be the judge. By the way, I have read a lot of his material, youre wrong that I have not. You are also wrong that I haven't investigated and contemplated this to a long extent, because I have spent 20 years doing so. You act like you are some God of knowledge but you aren't, no one is, and you can walk around with all your pomp and clever bantering and jabbing at people because you feel confident enough in your superiority, but the truth is youre really not as enlightened about it all as you think. Integrated and I understand something of great value that people like Nungali simply wont understand because they believe that life should be contest and pride. Humility may seem like a weakness to people like him, but to others its a great virtue, and I know that in the eyes of the Gods it is highly prized. You ask how he will stop you from doing these things, the answer is easy- we will ignore you like we ignore a child making a tantrum over something we told them they cannot have.

When it comes to Sin the easy answer is speak less and do less- doing less, attracting less responsibility that you might take advantage of or fail. Its about people, mostly- and harming them. Avoid this, don't take them for granted and don't take advantage. Try not to speak ill or condemn someone for wrong doing, offer advice and keep a distance until they prove to know better. Stay as close to contributing to the needs of civilization as possible, working on the structure of security and order. Beware, humans are prone to folly and there is a force at play that will lure us into snares

A person is like sticky glue what you pick up will stick to you until you travel it through and sort it out there will always be work to do

Fire and destruction will always be the dominant force, it is whether we will have to endure it that is the question, for fire and force are only meant to soften and sharpen the mind and the heart. There need be no intelligence to violence, it is us that find an answer for it, to bring gentle truth and cooperation. Be ye a Devil? Then that is your place, and you will be fire and force and contest, until someone defeats you. The Devil knows why He uses fire, we are meant to listen and learn. It is the heart that He wants, and so you will be forced to find it, and the intelligence to make use of your body, mind and talents.

I enjoy your ambition, and I think if we all lived alone in a world that didn't involve interaction, learning skills, and meeting our needs and wants, that this would be easily done. The problem here is that 1. we are not alone, and my Will and want rely on other people, often requiring me to trade with them, or convince them to participate in my wanting to satisfy what I desire. This requires knowledge and savvy, resources and opportunity. If I want or need nothing from anyone, we can all achieve this state you describe, but the minute we walk out our door- because something inside our house broke and we need it fixed, or I ran out of money and need to work to pay my rent which requires employment, or I have a heath scare that requires someone elses expertise- I have to bend my evermoreness and know how to communicate and get what I require. Not everyone simply "allows" as you recommend- not all people practice submission. Not all people want to like you. There is contest for these things, and it requires some kind of payment, whether it is kindness, or flattery, or money, or knowledge- people don't always just hand it over. You shouldn't either, because the odds are high that they will just take what you have, and leave. i

So basically we want to invent a machine that can link to our bodies and we use our minds to imagine and this machine is capable of harvesting the energy around us in the photon realm to organize and create matter at which time we use our minds to animate the thing invented. And that is probably how the Universe works, we are just mid range machines that do these things for the mind of God.

It takes more than Good Will to change this place. We have to see things for how they actually are, and address it.

So for those of you interested in what Im experiencing I thought Id write a little about what the past two months have been like. I mentioned that I find myself in a place of no-thought. Its very quiet. It helps that I do not own a television and have stopped listening to music. I stay in my apartment most days and don't work. Occasionally I go out to stores and lately I have been going to a bar just to see what people have to say. Im always amazed at the acts of polite kindness when I enter the world again. In my head has been nothing but a steady stream of Chaos that I have had to wrestle to conquer and name, trying my very best to observe and declare what I see and how to handle what I know of the world. Its been very stressful, lots of anxiety, fear, depression and sadness. This has colored my view on life and society. I know it isn't a disaster, but I have spent 20+ years finding ways to avert disaster and suffering for people, and so I am a broken, beaten man that sees a lot of sorrow. Like I said, I know this isn't how it actually is, people are rather sturdy and can handle stress and sadness well. One of the ways we do this is by becoming calloused, which I find to be a bad trait, but a healthy one- for we cannot live our lives bleeding out and begging God for mercy all the time. We have to move and act, we want to see and do, and we need to be strong enough to handle the blows. I guess my experiences have caused me to take on a quest to conquer Chaos and suffering, and so that has been my focus and now I am rediscovering the little joys of life that make us smile and feel warm, content and safe. That is why I have been focusing on kindness and heart based expressions of understanding. Its not exciting, its not adventurous, its not really that creative or difficult, but in these moments I see such profound truths and keep me wanting to be silent and struck by the awe of life and our struggle and smiles. I know that I could write fiction and illustrate the spectrum that I have witnessed, but I am stuck in my silence because I see this whole experience as too tumultuous, and I do not want to contribute to that, even though it is life itself. I aim at the best Good, and I refuse to clutter the air with nonsense or harmful ideas. I could go on about how all of this came to be for me but I think it is too sacred to speak of right now. Im not a great man, and Im not a new, great and powerful thinker. I have made some observations and my guides tell me Ive done well, but I haven't succeeded in creating a total new platform. Im resting right now. I see the goal and I see the path, and I don't know if I want to cause any commotion. There is enough out there in the world that people can find the truth if they look for it. I am not sure what God really appreciates most, I have decided that it is humility and kindness- though how can we fail to admit that we like the color and the pace of a life of movement and experience? I imagine that it entertains the gods that we create such wild and emotive things, but I really believe that from a Creator point of view, it gets frustrating to see indifference and calloused actions, and the harm we cause one another on our way to experience. When I think about what matters most is survival, I recognize that a less dramatic mind is more important to getting the work done than a creative and lustrous one. Yes we do want to feel alive, but there is a danger in the more we feel. I have become convinced that prudence and calm are Gods favorite virtues. So I am quiet now, having been told Ive done enough. Ive digested my karma and Ive made my statements, Ive followed the Dharmas and Ive distributed my blood across as far a path as I could swath. Im done reading and examining and contributing in that way. I hope one day to make a clear process to explain what I know and how to accomplish health in the shortest distance. I know that there is another objective- which is to aid those wandering around already on a journey that they need guidance to navigate. The world is so full of opinions and systems, and ideas and stories- we don't always know what we desire, or what is desirable. I feel for people like this, people just living and doing and uncertain, but working on it. I want to narrow this path, or at least explain what is on the wider path, so we can navigate and choose quicker so that we have more time to experience what we know to be Good in our hearts. I don't feel special for having gone through this. It Took years, all my health and wealth, and I have experienced massive amounts of psychic pain. I have lost everything, I have witnessed the impossible, I know first hand that there is a God, perhaps I have an understanding of Creator that is unique. I have seen miracles. I have shaken the tree and know it can be moved. Truly, it is awe inspiring what I have witnessed. I know the power of God, and I know how small we are in light of such a massive and marvelous being. I am quiet now, because I am small, and I am finding myself content just to witness the journey everyone is on.

Did someone mention rubbish?

All of your comments are very vague. "Emotion, heart, energy" these are just sensations. You need to define these things.

While I think Love is a foundation for Law, there are no Laws in Love, and so for lovers, Thelema is True, but not for society at large.

Im done defending Crowley. Love isn't the Law- Law is the Law, and the Law is not Do What Thou Wilt.

A system is created from Wisdom, but a system is not the Wisdom, the Wisdom comes from practicing the system.

Duty is the highest form of kindness.

Im developing another formula. I find these things worthy of contemplation/meditation. I see this as fundamental parts of the experience of life. Conflict, desire, Law, kindness, love/romance/friendship, the emotional realm of joy and sorrow, sincerity and doubt, and the efforts we put forth in our need to ensure our survival. I believe contemplating these things will provide a good net to snare Wisdom, and to comprehend life and its terms. Remember that all things seem to have their own Laws and rules, and to learn the variations and outcomes of them and their application will go a long way in helping you to navigate choice and result.

Ive come up with a diagram. LAW Magick Kindness CHAOS Law will vary, and Chaos is the unknown potential. Magick is the material and earthly possibility while Kindness has its own laws and is water/spirit. Law is Air and Chaos is fire. In Magick lies all the realm of known possibilities that emerge from Chaos; things like being a bird or a lion or a snake- but these things are not Love, which is best represented by kindness as its greatest truth. There is Love in Magick, but without kindness it is wild. Chaos spawns all of this, and we declare Truth in all of it, which is Law.

"What it will be like" is now, the new age that Crowley declared it to be

you decide if this is violent: 1. Abrahadabra; the reward of Ra Hoor Khut. 2. There is division hither homeward; there is a word not known. Spelling is defunct; all is not aught. Beware! Hold! Raise the spell of Ra-Hoor-Khuit! 3. Now let it be first understood that I am a god of War and of Vengeance. I shall deal hardly with them. 4. Choose ye an island! 5. Fortify it! 6. Dung it about with enginery of war! 7. I will give you a war-engine. 8. With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you. 9. Lurk! Withdraw! Upon them! this is the Law of the Battle of Conquest: thus shall my worship be about my secret house. 10. Get the stele of revealing itself; set it in thy secret temple -- and that temple is already aright disposed -- & it shall be your Kiblah for ever. It shall not fade, but miraculous colour shall come back to it day after day. Close it in locked glass for a proof to the world. 11. This shall be your only proof. I forbid argument. Conquer! That is enough. I will make easy to you the abstruction from the ill-ordered house in the Victorious City. Thou shalt thyself convey it with worship, o prophet, though thou likest it not. Thou shalt have danger & trouble. Ra-Hoor-Khu is with thee. Worship me with fire & blood; worship me with swords & with spears. Let the woman be girt with a sword before me: let blood flow to my name. Trample down the Heathen; be upon them, o warrior, I will give you of their flesh to eat! 12. Sacrifice cattle, little and big: after a child. 13. But not now. 14. Ye shall see that hour, o blessed Beast, and thou the Scarlet Concubine of his desire! 15. Ye shall be sad thereof. 16. Deem not too eagerly to catch the promises; fear not to undergo the curses. Ye, even ye, know not this meaning all. 17. Fear not at all; fear neither men nor Fates, nor gods, nor anything. Money fear not, nor laughter of the folk folly, nor any other power in heaven or upon the earth or under the earth. Nu is your refuge as Hadit your light; and I am the strength, force, vigour, of your arms. 18. Mercy let be off; damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them! 19. That stele they shall call the Abomination of Desolation; count well its name, & it shall be to you as 718. 20. Why? Because of the fall of Because, that he is not there again. 21. Set up my image in the East: thou shalt buy thee an image which I will show thee, especial, not unlike the one thou knowest. And it shall be suddenly easy for thee to do this. 22. The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me. I am the visible object of worship; the others are secret; for the Beast & his Bride are they: and for the winners of the Ordeal x. What is this? Thou shalt know. 23. For perfume mix meal & honey & thick leavings of red wine: then oil of Abramelin and olive oil, and afterward soften & smooth down with rich fresh blood. 24. The best blood is of the moon, monthly: then the fresh blood of a child, or dropping from the host of heaven: then of enemies; then of the priest or of the worshippers: last of some beast, no matter what. 25. This burn: of this make cakes & eat unto me. This hath also another use; let it be laid before me, and kept thick with perfumes of your orison: it shall become full of beetles as it were and creeping things sacred unto me. 26. These slay, naming your enemies; & they shall fall before you. 27. Also these shall breed lust & power of lust in you at the eating thereof. 28. Also ye shall be strong in war. 29. Moreover, be they long kept, it is better; for they swell with my force. All before me. 30. My altar is of open brass work: burn thereon in silver or gold! 31. There cometh a rich man from the West who shall pour his gold upon thee. 32. From gold forge steel! 33. Be ready to fly or to smite! 34. But your holy place shall be untouched throughout the centuries: though with fire and sword it be burnt down & shattered, yet an invisible house there standeth, and shall stand until the fall of the Great Equinox; when Hrumachis shall arise and the double-wanded one assume my throne and place. Another prophet shall arise, and bring fresh fever from the skies; another woman shall awakethe lust & worship of the Snake; another soul of God and beast shall mingle in the globed priest; another sacrifice shall stain the tomb; another king shall reign; and blessing no longer be poured To the Hawk-headed mystical Lord! 35. The half of the word of Heru-ra-ha, called Hoor-pa-kraat and Ra-Hoor-Khut. 36. Then said the prophet unto the God: 37. I adore thee in the song -- I am the Lord of Thebes, and I The inspired forth-speaker of Mentu; For me unveils the veiled sky, The self-slain Ankh-af-na-khonsu Whose words are truth. I invoke, I greet Thy presence, O Ra-Hoor-Khuit! Unity uttermost showed! I adore the might of Thy breath, Supreme and terrible God, Who makest the gods and death To tremble before Thee: -- I, I adore thee! Appear on the throne of Ra! Open the ways of the Khu! Lighten the ways of the Ka! The ways of the Khabs run through To stir me or still me! Aum! let it fill me! 38. So that thy light is in me; & its red flame is as a sword in my hand to push thy order. There is a secret door that I shall make to establish thy way in all the quarters, (these are the adorations, as thou hast written), as it is said: The light is mine; its rays consume Me: I have made a secret door Into the House of Ra and Tum, Of Khephra and of Ahathoor. I am thy Theban, O Mentu, The prophet Ankh-af-na-khonsu! By Bes-na-Maut my breast I beat; By wise Ta-Nech I weave my spell. Show thy star-splendour, O Nuit! Bid me within thine House to dwell, O winged snake of light, Hadit! Abide with me, Ra-Hoor-Khuit! 39. All this and a book to say how thou didst come hither and a reproduction of this ink and paper for ever -- for in it is the word secret & not only in the English -- and thy comment upon this the Book of the Law shall be printed beautifully in red ink and black upon beautiful paper made by hand; and to each man and woman that thou meetest, were it but to dine or to drink at them, it is the Law to give. Then they shall chance to abide in this bliss or no; it is no odds. Do this quickly! 40. But the work of the comment? That is easy; and Hadit burning in thy heart shall make swift and secure thy pen. 41. Establish at thy Kaaba a clerk-house: all must be done well and with business way. 42. The ordeals thou shalt oversee thyself, save only the blind ones. Refuse none, but thou shalt know & destroy the traitors. I am Ra-Hoor-Khuit; and I am powerful to protect my servant. Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much! Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter; & destroy them utterly. Swift as a trodden serpent turn and strike! Be thou yet deadlier than he! Drag down their souls to awful torment: laugh at their fear: spit upon them! 43. Let the Scarlet Woman beware! If pity and compassion and tenderness visit her heart; if she leave my work to toy with old sweetnesses; then shall my vengeance be known. I will slay me her child: I will alienate her heart: I will cast her out from men: as a shrinking and despised harlot shall she crawl through dusk wet streets, and die cold and an-hungered. 44. But let her raise herself in pride! Let her follow me in my way! Let her work the work of wickedness! Let her kill her heart! Let her be loud and adulterous! Let her be covered with jewels, and rich garments, and let her be shameless before all men! 45. Then will I lift her to pinnacles of power: then will I breed from her a child mightier than all the kings of the earth. I will fill her with joy: with my force shall she see & strike at the worship of Nu: she shall achieve Hadit. 46. I am the warrior Lord of the Forties: the Eighties cower before me, & are abased. I will bring you to victory & joy: I will be at your arms in battle & ye shall delight to slay. Success is your proof; courage is your armour; go on, go on, in my strength; & ye shall turn not back for any! 47. This book shall be translated into all tongues: but always with the original in the writing of the Beast; for in the chance shape of the letters and their position to one another: in these are mysteries that no Beast shall divine. Let him not seek to try: but one cometh after him, whence I say not, who shall discover the Key of it all. Then this line drawn is a key: then this circle squared in its failure is a key also. And Abrahadabra. It shall be his child & that strangely. Let him not seek after this; for thereby alone can he fall from it. 48. Now this mystery of the letters is done, and I want to go on to the holier place. 49. I am in a secret fourfold word, the blasphemy against all gods of men. 50. Curse them! Curse them! Curse them! 51. With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross. 52. I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him. 53. With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din. 54. Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds. 55. Let Mary inviolate be torn upon wheels: for her sake let all chaste women be utterly despised among you! 56. Also for beauty's sake and love's! 57. Despise also all cowards; professional soldiers who dare not fight, but play; all fools despise! 58. But the keen and the proud, the royal and the lofty; ye are brothers! 59. As brothers fight ye! 60. There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt. 61. There is an end of the word of the God enthroned in Ra's seat, lightening the girders of the soul. 62. To Me do ye reverence! to me come ye through tribulation of ordeal, which is bliss. 63. The fool readeth this Book of the Law, and its comment; & he understandeth it not. 64. Let him come through the first ordeal, & it will be to him as silver. 65. Through the second, gold. 66. Through the third, stones of precious water. 67. Through the fourth, ultimate sparks of the intimate fire. 68. Yet to all it shall seem beautiful. Its enemies who say not so, are mere liars. 69. There is success. 70. I am the Hawk-Headed Lord of Silence & of Strength; my nemyss shrouds the night-blue sky. 71. Hail! ye twin warriors about the pillars of the world! for your time is nigh at hand. 72. I am the Lord of the Double Wand of Power; the wand of the Force of Coph Nia--but my left hand is empty, for I have crushed an Universe; & nought remains. 73. Paste the sheets from right to left and from top to bottom: then behold! 74. There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son. 75. The ending of the words is the Word Abrahadabra.

I thought it would be fun to organize this into a consensus and we could create some kind of document. Here is my take on a soul. Aside from the obvious observation that most people have senses and language, can we say they have souls? I think a soul is something that is somehow permanent; something we can associate with the individual person- like saying "They are this or that". This should be possible for most people, though I have met some people where you cannot expect them to be the same thing twice. Even that is a sort of soul, though, as it is a trait that you can recognize. My point is that with the need for permanency comes some sort of memory. It is this memory that we access to progress and change, as we reflect upon our actions and the events around us and draw conclusions. This is the aspect that I think most people feel is missing when they say "That person is soulless" That, and probably a lack of compassion. Compassion only comes from observation of action and its result, and recognizing the fallibility of reason and awareness. I don't think this is a necessary component to be declared to have a soul, but I would say that if you had the ability to reflect and refine, that you are more in tune with your soul. Is the soul permanent after death? This would need to be tied to some other worldly environment and a reason for there being one. If you come to a creator or governing presence, it is easy to explain why a soul might last after life, but without one, it is a matter of science, where some occultists believe that nothing is wasted and nothing dies. My theory is that if there is a reason for the manifest experience of life, then there is probably a force behind it- and I see it less as a "Do the right thing and earn Heaven" and more of a gathering of other living beings for examination and investigation, and probably companionship.