Ecclectica

Hi Guys What I have decided? I'm going to try Yantra Yoga. I may also try 8 brocades and maybe Shibashi later. Reasons: There was by chance a Harmonious Breathing (This is based on Yantra Yoga) workshop near home so I went along and it seemed ok. I am going to learn both Harmonious Breathing and Yantra Yoga via books and DVD's I will likely have the opportunity to do a workshop or course in the next six months and can contact a teacher in the interim if I need help). I like and practice yoga and it appeals more than Qiging or Tai Chi and will give more physical benefits which is important as I plan to do some long, hard-core meditation retreats. I am interested in exploring the breath generally as an aid to both sitting and moving meditation and I feel both methods will greatly increase my breath awareness. Its a Buddhist practice and that's my path. As to why 8 Brocades and possibly later Shibashi: I met with John Dolic. He didn't advocate any specific technique (same as most here). I wanted something easy to learn and wasn't attracted to any of the other methods he taught. Apparently these styles can be easily learnt in few classes unlike Tai Chi. I like the fact that Yantra and 8 Brocades are really really old methods. I may do Yantra first or maybe practice both - I think John said that was ok. I've tried to approach this in a logical way by posting here and meeting John but ultimately this is largely an intuitive and prgagmatic decision and I will just see how it goes. So I am doing stuff that I think I might like and therefore stick to or otherwise starting with simple methods - so this feels like common sense. Cheers PS I had never heard of Yantra Yoga till I read about it in this forum ten days ago. So I can say I got the answer to my question here.

Fair enough Lazy, Sloppy stuff by me. I mean something more along the lines of there are probably more decent TaiChi teachers than Qiging teachers with one hour of me. And because Thai Chi is more popular they may teach in classes rather than private and therefore it may be more affordable etc

Thanks dwai Very Interesting to hear about isolating parts and Neigong etc Also thanks for the reference toJohn Fung - he seems like a very accomplished guy - he is not too far from me - I will Investigate further. Im glad you suggested TaiChi because it got me thinking about pragmatic considerations as opposed to the best method for me. TaiChi = more popular more competent teachers more cost effective classes etc Cheers

Thanks Earl I phoned John Dolic last night. I will go and see him sometime in the near future and see what he says. Thanks for the further recommendations too. Seems like a sensible way to proceed Re the internet I am learning a lot here from the nature of all posts regardless of whether they are what I want or expected to hear. The internet is rather murky. Energy practise is murky territory too. I am trying to do things in a logical way by choosing carefully what is an appropriate method for me. Spiritual practice involves so much effort and suffering and I understand many people spend years and thousands of hours or even a lifetime getting nowhere. Knowing this I wouldn't have the motivation to put much effort into an energy practise unless I had done my due diligence beforehand. Of course I am limited by my general lack of knowledge in this area, it is my responsibility to educate myself. Cheers

Thanks dwai Can't complain about your advice not being specific. I had been wondering about Qiging vs Tai chi and somehow thought Qigong was better or more appropriate for me. I don't really have any proper basis for that assumption. Is there is any reason why you recommend those methods over others and Tai Chi over Qiging? From a practical point of view maybe it's easier to find a good Tai Chi teacher than Qiging teacher - it seems more popular. Also, I would prefer a method that is taught in a consistent fashion, not one that different teachers teach differently or have lots of variations. Cheers

WHY? If you read everything I have posted it should be clear what my motivation is. I am past half-way in this life. I went to University. Worked as a professional. Spent 7 years overseas in 30 countries. Learnt a foreign language. I have done stuff. But ultimately as I have already said I failed in all aspects of life, always been an outsider and never bonded with anybody ever. I am disliked due to my personality. So I had a major depression some time ago and eventually realised you either have to suicide or try and get out of the depression - it's just too hard existing in that state. (It took a couple of years to crawl out). WHICH WAY? I am committed to the Buddhist way? RANDOM SITTINGS? I don't do random sittings. I have meditated almost every day for four years. STOP WHAT IM DOING? A few people have said stop due to risks etc. I appreciate the advice and concern but I can't stop, I'm in too deep and have no other options. In any case according Buddhist Maps of the path etc (Not that I am a fan of Map oriented approaches such as espoused by Daniel Ingram) I have gone past the point of no return and into what people on the internet like to call 'the dark night of the soul' - although that's a bit too dramatic. FIND A COMPETENT TEACHER? As you admit its a good idea but easier said than done. Anyway, I have been guided intermittently by a very good teacher on retreats so I feel confident that I am on the right track - albeit not an easy one. Few teachers are going to devote themselves to you anyway. They either have better things to do, don't think your worth it, just don't like you that much, want to charge $100 hr or more, want exploit you sexually or otherwise or come from a very different cultural perspective and won't quite get you etc etc etc A teacher can't climb inside your head and see what's actually happening. Ultimately we have to be our own teachers. My response probably seems a bit harsh - sorry about that. But I just want to clarify to everybody where I am coming from. I note that your advice is similar to many in others in being cautionary and I've got to say quite pessimistic So to be clear: 1. I'm on this ride and ain't getting off. I am happy to take risks -my choice. 2. My main practise is Buddist meditation. I only want an energy practise (or simple methods) to assist with managing energy or resolving blockages or whatever is the correct way to say it. 3. I naively assumed different energy practises would be suitable for different purposes and accordingly people would recommend an appropriate method for my situation ie I already have the energy so I don't need to waste time trying to generate it - I've just got to deal with it. (I realise this assumption is probably wrong-headed and due to my ignorance of these matters). But I am disappointed and surprised few people have suggested specific methods and books (I only recall one book suggestion). Once again I am not criticising posters just feeling a little perplexed. Shouldn't choosing a method be a bit more like walking into the pharmacy, describing my symptoms and being given a choice of medications. If this forum is the pharmacy and you guys are the pharmacists and I have just said I have constipation, I still don't know if I should treat it with aspirin, condoms or band aids. Ok, that's probably not the best analogy but you get my drift? Anyway, just being real honest, clarifying stuff and trying to illicit some specific advice. PS Don't advise me to change my personality. I once saw a psychologist in the midst of my major depression (for which I was voluntarily hospitalised for a period of 10 days at one stage) She told me 'Just stop being an asshole and stop feeling sorry for yourself'. Things are never that simple. Cheers

Thanks Jeff I note that I do have my moments of joy and abandon - usually while listening to music, exercising or both.

Thanks for the edited post Ride. I appreciate your efforts in trying to get through to me. I get your drift, but it's up to me to educate myself so I can fully appreciate the your advice (and that of others). I note that I have been experimenting with split sits, usually open awareness followed by shikantaza/non-doing and I like the approach. In time I will endeavour to try what you have suggested. PS FWIW Kenneth Folk has a 3 step approach Step 1 Standard awareness as you describe Step 2 Ramana Maharishi style self enquiry into 'who' is experiencing Step 3 Non-doing Thus seems to me a little bit similar to what you are describing. Cheers

Thanks Jeff Makes Sense. re: 'fear of being loved (or loving others)' Although I don't consciously experience it as a fear I can admit to never having had a normal decent relationship with anyone ever - just some superficial stuff at times. Naturally I failed in almost all aspects of life, work, $, women, friendships and family. No pity sought! Im not in crisis, just suffering a bit. I am however in very good physical condition and I have a good aptitude for meditation and good concentration and excellent flexibility and posture. My attitude is something like - 'ok be crushed almost totally by the mundane life, and don't hope for anything other than to be ok with being crushed'. I found this to work ok on retreats (I don't get distracted by my mundane world failure anymore) but it doesn't work off retreat. I think what's got to/going to happen is I add to my spiritual skillset then I get to the point of total disillusionment then I go on retreat(s) indefinitely. The only thing that could go wrong with this plan is having things go right for me in the mundane world.

Thanks Ride. My main practices are: 1 Open Awareness 2 Shikantaza I don't have a lot of trouble letting go. I have always tended to the passive rather than active doing. I am neither controlling or focused in my approach. My open awareness style is influenced by Burmese Monk Sayadaw U Tejaniya. He is all about being relaxed, not trying to create any states or make anything happen or resist what is occurring and wish it to be otherwise. Just relaxed awareness with appropriate attitude. He says 'Do not focus, control or penetrate'. Re dropping to the belly this sounds to me like trying to cultivate a sense of awareness itself emanating from or resting in the belly. This sounds like playing around with awareness as described by Loch Kelly in his book 'Shift into freedom' based on Sutra Mahamudra. E.g. 'Unhook local awareness from thinking, let it drop through your neck into your upper body..feel local awareness knowing sensations and awareness directly from within your body'. I do a little breath concentration or Bodyscan occasionally, but only if I'm in the mood - I won't do it if it feels like work.

Thanks Ride. I did a long retreat recently and energy symptoms were minor ( after the first 10 days or so at least). Since home I have done little sitting only 45 mins - an hour daily, however I'm much more energetic in sits and I cant stay asleep. I am doing more and more retreats and each time I leave I am really unsettled in the real world. I may need to do a couple or more 3 month retreats in a short period and just push through. Since home my intuition said to get physical so in addition to my usual 3 x week weight training I've been doing heaps of physical stuff at a Yoga studio including Yin and tang yoga, stretch therapy, focused movement and fascia work and Feldenkrais. I've also been swimming. I am not sure which are the big energy systems? What about Shibashi? Also, previously you advised against WG, is Shane Lear very different? Thanks again.

Thanks very much Earl. I will give him a call. Just checking his website now. He has some expensive classes!

Yes, could be enough. I did however ask an ex-monk and full-time teacher who knows my practise well if I should do Qigong and he was for it. Maybe he was just just being prudent though. The other thing is it helps develop bodily awareness which is important in developing continuity of mindfulness. It is also an engaging alternative to walking meditation on retreats.

I don't know what my blockages are. I really don't know what more I can say other than what I have said. I just want an energy practise to resolve, in whatever way, my energy issues so I can meditate more effectively.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond and making me welcome. In response I wiil try to be concise - I hope I don't appear rude: I'm not clear on the bolded parts. How do I breath into my lower dan tien? Does all the time mean when am not formally meditating or otherwise practising? Is there a resource I should read? What is meant by active doing practice? I usually do an open awareness meditation or a Shikantaza type. I occasionally concentrate exclusively on my breath or do a shortish bodyscan loosely based on Goenka style. What are long form asana's? Thanks Spotless. I note that my queries arise due to my ignorance in these matters. I am clueless as to which methods are like WG and conversely which will flow with my Buddhist path. I am keen to hear from anyone else too on this point. I think I need a resource to refer to so I can understand resting inside the belly , sitting down from the belly etc. - Is there a name for this practise? Not sure about the idea of teaching surrender. Thanks Moment. Again, my queries arise due to my ignorance. MORE CLARIFICATION ON ME I appreciate the urges to be cautious, but confess to being fairly relaxed about all this - it's been going on for three years now and the intense crazy Kundali movements finished 2 years ago. I did meet with Simon Blow and attend one class with him and bought a book and DVD. I told him of my experiences but he didn't seem too interested - although he was very nice and polite guy. He didn't question me on any details or caution me about the dangers or recommend any particular style. My impression was that he mainly teaches retirees in community classes and travels around doing not very serious courses here and there as well as leading Qigong tours to China. ''Rideforever' you can maybe correct me on this. He may have ability but not sure if he is a genuine teacher of serious students. Is any teacher better than no teacher? I have been unable find any serious Qigong in Sydney - only community type classes catering to senior citizens mostly. I went to a martial arts school too but it was hopeless (the master no longer taught due to old age). I am thinking to give Zhan Zhuang a go via the Marc Cohen book and maybe find some teacher later if possible. Is Zhan Zhuang doable from a book? I might try Yantra yoga(Apparently authentic Tibetan) Yoga via books and Dvd''s. I understand the poses are fairly straightforward Hatha style (although poses are not held for extended periods) and I like yoga and am quite good at it physically. I could do a retreat later with one of the very few teachers of it in Australia (none in Sydney). What do you think? Are these as effective as Qigong or Tai Chi? And are there any recommended styles for my situation? Or is it a matter of just trial and error and experimenting to see what feels right? I could just do the Shibashi Qigong DVD I have and do some not very serious classes. Are there any opinions on Shibashi? Also what about my spontaneous Qigong? My goal is to resolve energy blockages. I am not focused on health or martial aspects of Qigong or any other energy practise. For the sake of clarity I'm not responding directly to all posts and all suggestions but I am taking them on board - will give due consideration and research further etc. So thanks again everyone.