SirPalomides

Based on the way Jeff is presenting himself on this thread I find it wholly believable.

I do wish topics other than cool powers and preternatural phenomena got more attention here.

I cannot even wrap my head around the insanity described in that post. That the person in question offers to put it “in context” rather than denying it happened is downright horrifying.

Thanks. So in that link, if you go to the Daoism section it links to another article that explains that jushi was one title for Daoist lay believers in Quanzhen. And, very interestingly, it says “道教信徒称爲信士（未皈依者）、清信士、善男信女等，受三归五戒後称居士，俗家弟子互相尊称师兄、师长、道友、道侣、同道、同参等。因与汉传佛教长期互相影响，两教称谓相似或相同” So among Daoist believers there is the category of xinshi (uncommitted believers) and then the next step is jushi, laypeople who have taken three (Daoist) refuges and five precepts! So if this article is accurate, then there is in fact a lay initiation ceremony for Daoist jushi mirroring the Buddhist Three Refuges.

No, it’s a term borrowed from Buddhism for lay Daoists.

The characters are 居士. Anyone can practice Buddhism too but there is this formal ceremony for those who want to make a commitment. Historically that has not always been so. The Celestial Masters, Lingbao, and Quanzhen movements were all fairly evangelical in their early years. The Yao people who are otherwise not very Han in their culture at all were converted to Daoism by Daoist missionaries. If Wu Wei means avoiding public advocacy then all those elite Daoists lobbying emperors for patronage were not very Wu wei.

Never let anyone who would even consider Bloomberg anywhere near your chakras

Right, I understand that if there are secret initiations that people don’t want to talk about that. What I’m curious about is if there is a public ceremony for becoming a jushi/ daojiaotu akin to the Buddhist Three Refuges. I am using “initiation” in the sense of formally enrolling in the religion and not as an esoteric entry. Everyone knows about the Three Refuges, it’s not a secret (many of the tantric initiations have been made public too but that’s another topic.) At certain points Daoism has been a popular, proselytizing religion, so I would be surprised if some such rite did not exist.

As I said in the OP, I am referring to those called jushi or daojiaotu, not priests of any sort.

It’s really all in the first paragraph l- I want to know if there is a formal initiation ceremony comparable to the Buddhist Three Refuges

It’s in the OP.

I am aware of what the term means. The term was not used until modern times, even if the people described by the term existed long before. I don’t think we actually disagree here.

Some Daoism advocates it. The Celestial Masters movement advocated it for their married couples, in part as a way to encourage the production of seed children who would survive the apocalypse. Shangqing and Lingbao looked on the practice with contempt. Nowadays it’s a great way to sell books but how many people actually know what they’re doing?

Like I said, the term “daojiaotu” is a neologism but the phenomenon is not new. Or are you aware of any widespread use of the term “daojiaotu” prior to the 20th century?

Why should we be divided? Rather METAL shall unite us

@alchemystical From where I'm sitting you majorly misread thelerner's tone and intent. The attributes you are imputing to him are simply not present in what he wrote. Sometimes I overreact or misread people too. It happens to a lot of people. Don't double down on it though.

As an interesting comparison, here is the chapter from the Lotus Sutra that was the chief model for this scripture. Many similarities, and also many differences reflecting Buddhist vs Daoist concerns.

Below is my amateur translation of the Taiyi Jiuku Hushen Miao Jing (太乙救苦護身妙經) or Wonderful Scripture of the Protection of Great Oneness, Savior from Sorrow. My source text is here. According to that website it can be found on pages 513-515 of volume 10 of the Zhengtong Daoist Canon. Christine Mollier, whose summary was helpful for my translation, roughly dates the book to the mid-Tang dynasty. She bases this on the fact that it was known in the Song dynasty, and that it includes iconographic elements borrowed from images of Guan Yin that were not known in China until the Tang. My interest in this scripture was sparked by @Zhongyongdaoist pointing out the importance of this deity. I noticed in my copy of Daoist Morning and Evening Altar Recitations that the evening section is centered around Taiyi Jiuku Tianzun, but the scriptures in there regarding him are a little esoteric. Doing some "research" (googling) I found that there was this primary scripture relating to the deity that had not been translated. As always, suggestions for improved accuracy by those with more competence in Chinese are welcomed and requested. I suspect that there are a few cosmological or alchemical terms that in my ignorance I mistranslated. I hope Dao Bums and others find this helpful. Taiyi Jiuku Hushen Miao Jing (太乙救苦護身妙經) or Wonderful Scripture of the Protection of Great Oneness, Savior from Sorrow At that time, the Heavenly Worthy of the Primal Beginning, above the Mysterious Brightness, amid the Heaven of Pure Subtlety, ascended to the Seven-Jewel Throne in the Hall of Nine-colored Jade, and sent out a brilliant light to gather all the myriad spirits to partake of the heavenly discourse: Heavenly Worthies of the Ten Directions, the Lord of the Dao, Lord Lao, primal thearchs, elders and sages, and the numberless throng of immortals one and all came and took their seats, to hear the proclamation of the Wonderful Law. Thereupon the Brahma King named Shandishi sang a joyous song. The immortals' own music resounded, accompanied by rays of light. Then the Supreme Lord Lao rose from his jade throne, treading upon lotus flowers with perfected ones attending to his left and right, and jade maidens upholding his robe. Arriving before the Heavenly Lord, he spoke this petition: "Your minister awaits the Teacher's exhortation, having been received in the blessed Heavenly Hall, to perform boundless works of merit and kindnesses immeasurable. Your minister observes, amid the Three Realms, in the Sea of Misery, numberless beings harshly met with distress, entangled in nets of sin and swarms of various passions, from which escape and reform are hard. Your minister cannot abide in the Highest Purity, desiring rather to wield mighty light, manifest in the Three Realms, and rescue the impassioned multitude to the furthest reaches. But we look to Your Majesty to counsel compassion." Thereupon the Heavenly Worthy of the Primal Beginning, descending in a Law Body, told Lord Lao: "Excellently have you left your jade throne to astonish the myriad heavens and rescue suffering beings. You need not wait to return to your throne to hear my pronouncement." The Heavenly Worthy said: "The myriad beings I birth, the myriad spirits I transform, meeting sorrow and distress, needing salvation, need not your mighty incarnation to save them to the furthest reaches. "In the Eastern World of Vast Delight there dwells someone great, compassionate, and humane: the Heavenly Worthy Great Oneness, Savior from Sorrow, taking as many forms as there are grains of sand, constantly heeding the cries of beings, whether dwelling in the Heavenly Palace, or descending to the human realm; as denizens of hell or in the assembly of the damned; or as immortal lads and jade maidens; or as emperors and sages; or as heavenly worthies and perfected ones; or as vajra kings; or as demon kings and mighty knights; or as Heavenly Masters and Daoist masters; or as royals and venerable lords; or as heavenly physicians and recorders of merits; or as boys and girls; or as civil and martial officials; or as commanders-in-chief; or as preceptors and meditation teachers; or as masters of wind and of rain- measureless magic power, limitless means of benefit, searching for cries to rescue from sorrow, answering beings where they find themselves. Today I proclaim it, that you may know." Lord Lao continued his petition, saying, "This mighty god has measureless forms! What must be done to bring my Teacher before us?" The Heavenly Worthy told Lord Lao, "You may raise your voice, crying the name of Great Oneness, and let the immortal officials raise your cry in unison, and he will surely answer, transforming and manifesting." Thereupon Lord Lao and the numerous ranks of immortals, honoring his teaching and decree, together cried out and sang the name of the Heavenly Worthy Great Oneness, Savior from Sorrow. Suddenly amid the throng of thearchs appeared a boy, treading upon lotus flowers, who bowed to the Heavenly Worthy until the latter, introducing him, said, "My minister known as Great Oneness, enlighten and expound the Law, as though you were my teacher. The ministers are assembled to witness and hear the wonderful tidings, one joyous moment in heaven to set in motion the scriptures on earth for myriad kalpas. Amid the Three Worlds the multitude of beings suffer sorrow, loudly crying out, Sorrow! Sorrow!, in procession around the Heavenly Worthies, worshiping and prostrating, begging beneath the Gate of Heaven." Thereupon the assembled immortals saw the boy present a petition in answer; shedding tears upon his robe, between sobs and sighs, he said: "In Heaven there is joy; on earth, calamity, cycles of rebirth and retribution while the pure are idle!" The Heavenly Worthy said to Great Oneness: "As you desire mercy, so all suffering beings may depend on your wish to manifest and save them.” The boy was pleased and smiled, bowing twice and withdrawing. The multitude of immortals then beheld the boy transform into a heavenly worthy, his feet treading on lotus flowers, a halo radiating from his head, and his hands holding a willow branch and a jar of pure water. Nine-headed lions followed at his left and right. He mounted the air and left. Again behold, the Heavenly Worthy appeared as a thearch, feet treading lotus flowers, hands grasping a ruyi, a halo radiating from his head. Nine-headed lions followed at his left and right. He mounted the air and left. Again, behold, the thearch appeared as a perfected one, feet treading lotus flowers, holding a divine light that penetrated the nine heavens above and nine earths below. Nine-headed lions followed at his left and right. He mounted the air and left. Again, behold, the perfected one appeared as a girl, clothed in fiery brocade, her hair loose, treading barefoot on lotus flowers, golden sword in hand, and a halo radiating from her head. Nine-headed lions spat flames that encircled her figure. She mounted the air and left. Lord Lao spoke his petitionto the Heavenly Worthy: “This sage’s mighty virtue transforms to save beings. Whence and for how many kalpas did he cultivate, to adapt to conditions at a mere wish? Declare it for the assembly.” The Heavenly Worthy said, “This Sage is called, in Heaven, Great Oneness God of Fortune, in the world he is called the Great Benevolent One, in the prison of hell he is called Sunshine Thearch, among the diabolic heretics he is called Brilliant Lion King, and in the Water Realm he is the Thearch of the Abyss. He is my breath, I am his root. He knows what I know- he is the Nine-Yang Essence. So very potent! The secrets of his power are too numerous to tell." Then the Lord Lao, hearing the Heavenly Worthy’s speech, closed his eyes, concentrated his attention, and in a snap of the fingers prostrated and spoke the incantation: "Ancestral qi of the Primal One, wonderful transformation Nine-Yang Essence, mighty virtue pervading nine directions, so subtle appears his perfection! Three and nine winds blow out, hovering out of the inaugural green, reverently birthing the jade fluid, offered to relieve hunger and thirst. Myriad spirits, trusting in the rite- the eight sorrows cannot pursue them! Amassing means to support and admonish, guide them surely by hand to the Jade Metropolis." At that time the Heavenly Worthy again addressed Lord Lao and the various immortals, saying, "Should any of the myriad beings at any time encounter disease or lingering ailments, they may burn incense, remember this Sage's name, and recite this scripture, and disease shall retreat and scatter, conquered by tranquility. "Should any of the myriad beings, petitioning the government for a post, be assailed by treachery, flattery, and deceit, yet remember this Sage's name, and recite this scripture, then jealousies shall not arise, and they shall be promoted to a prosperous rank. "Should any of the myriad beings, drifting or wading through rivers or seas, alarmed by waves or hunted by fish or dragons, collect their thoughts and call this Sage's name, they shall then reach the shore unharmed. "Should any of the myriad beings be startled by thunderbolts, wind, and rain, yet collect their thoughts and call this Sage's name, a holy breeze shall clear the air, the hun and po souls unshaken. "Should any of the myriad beings' parents, teachers, or six relations be discordant, or brothers rebellious and lax, yet they collect their thoughts and call this Sage's name and recite this scripture, harmony will surely arise among the six relations, fathers benevolent, sons filial, elder brothers friendly and younger brothers respectful. "Should the emperor's court be rife with treacherous ministers, rebellious armies, and intractable storms, the myriad people tormented and crying against Heaven, yet he should fast and recite this scripture, the winds and rains shall accord with the season, treasonous ministers shall be exposed, and the nation shall exalt, the people tranquil. "Should any of the myriad beings come to harm from evil forces and demon-bandits, yet they collect their thoughts and call this Sage's name, devilish curses shall dissipate and demon-bandits be extinguished. "Should any of the myriad beings, passing through mountains and forests, be hunted and attacked by insects, snakes, birds, and beasts, yet they collect their thoughts and call this Sage's name, beasts and insects will flee, not daring to draw near and attack. "Should there be pregnant women facing a hard childbirth, yet they collect their thoughts and call this Sage's name, a holy qi shall bless them and, with neither pain nor harm, they shall then bear wise sons or dutiful daughters, the six roots intact, mother and child harmonious. "Should there be men or women who long for the Dao and seek immortality, remaining or leaving home, who cultivate and nourish life, yet they collect their thoughts, call this Sage's name, and recite this scripture, they shall then merit and achieve perfection, ascending to Heaven in broad daylight. "Should any of the myriad beings be continually fettered in prisons, groaning anguished laments, yet they collect their thoughts and call this Sage's name, they shall then be unchained and depart from their prisons. "Should any of the myriad beings have ancestors to the seventh or ninth generation, or students or classmates, or husbands or wives, men or women, who at the body's death descend to freezing hells without the hope of rebirth, yet they collect their thoughts and call this Sage's name, they shall thereby depart the lands of shadow, then be born in Heaven. "Should any of the myriad beings be in bondage to enemies, continually entrapped and entangled, yet they collect their thoughts and call this Sage's name, their enemies shall relent and their bonds break and disperse." Thereupon the Heavenly Worthy said unto Lord Lao, "This Sage, most honored and noble, most holy and efficacious, on the third and ninth of every month descends to the human realm. At those times ever burn incense and worship him in the pure chamber, offering a willow branch, pure water, and seasonal flowers, healing herbs and grain sprouts, as are lawful to offer. Thereby your longevity shall extend a hundred twenty years, the five kinds of happiness shall ever arrive, the eight disasters keep far away. Shun stove ashes and pomegranates, for these are unclean and unlawful to touch." Thus the Heavenly Worthy spoke the scripture completely. Suddenly amid the great assembly, crowds of immortals sang of benevolence. Lions could speak and phoenixes talk, fish and dragons became human. The long dead lived again. Crawling things became sentient. Happiness and wealth pervaded everywhere, majestic and magnificent, and all ascended to immortality. Thereupon the Lord of the Dao, Lord Lao, and limitless myriads of perfected ones, together raised their voices to praise the wonderful tidings heard today, obtaining great benefits. They made a parting reverence and withdrew.

Guys, we blew it. It was a once-in-a-kalpa opportunity and we threw it away. Thanks to our pettiness, bullying, and failure to render proper obeisance to the manifest deity among us, he has decided to abandon us to our sordid devices and ascended back to his plane. We may now commence flinging poo at one another.

When I was growing up there was a series of popular children's books called "Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark". You might have heard of them- a movie came out recently based on some of the stories. The second volume had a game called "Ghost in the Mirror" which involved dimming the lights, staring into the mirror, and repeating "Any ghost, any ghost." My brother and I did it and contorted manifestations began appearing on our faces. So I suspect if a children's game can accomplish it then it is not exactly something for "Heru" to boast about!

Yes, seeing as we are so unworthy and stubbornly ignorant, the only thing a master like yourself can do is ascend back to his Pure Land and leave us in our self-imposed darkness. It's time!

I suspect a lot of experienced posters are inured to it and just know when to scroll past. Religious forums in general attract these sorts of people all the time. With some rigorous moderation a lot of it can be weeded out but not completely.

What you perceive as unwarranted spiritual pretensions, haughtiness, and delusive self-deception are in fact the layers of misdirection woven by true masters- arrogance so brazen it is in fact a form of humility, thereby protecting the uninitiated from burning themselves by encountering true wisdom before they are sufficiently prepared. To learn more, send me 20,000 euros to attend my exclusive seminar.

Yes, people who can’t create anything often impute drug use to those who do.

Smart move taking my advice on the avatar. From a distance it almost looks like a respectable memento mori painting. On closer inspection it’s still some kid stuff though. 4/10 try again