SirPalomides

Speaking of TM, you really haven't lived until you've heard this cringe Beach Boys song

Just put your hands under your butt and lift really hard.

Ahh okay. I was thinking you might have been referring to all the sectarian/ linguistic/ national divisions in the Balkans.

Could you say more about what you mean here? Thanks

^Most of that is wrong. Again, the Christian doctrine of theosis is directly connected to the incarnation. Christ unites us to God not by a moral imitation but by assuming our nature, uniting it inseparably (but unconfusedly) with the divine nature. It has nothing to do with a reliance on Hebrew vs Greek- though terminology from Plato and Aristotle is constantly employed. This is perfectly clear from reading the relevant church fathers and the Christological debates of the first millennium. The Septuagint was the Bible for Greek-speaking Jews and the New Testament writers quote from it whenever they quote the Old Testament. As for whatever Hebrew text was circulating at the time, it is not the same as the Masoretic text in use today. I was recently reading some of Robert Alter’s wonderful translations of the Hebrew Bible and I was surprised to see how often he relies on the Septuagint to emend parts of the Masoretic text that are corrupt.

After some more reading, to correlate with what was said previously, it looks it was common to erect a tower to Wenchang in a lot of places, near the Confucius temple, as not only a cult site but a sort of alternative Confucian academy that wasn’t controlled by central authorities. Also Wenchang seems to have put himself forward as a savior figure, though with an interesting twist. In a text entitled Wenchang’s Original Vow, the Jade Emperor sees the level of iniquity in the world rising so high that he decides to destroy us all. Wenchang though comes forward to vow to avert this by teaching us to be better people, particularly by liberally revealing morality texts in spirit writing sessions. So he became especially associated with spirit writing along with Lu Dongbin and Guanyu and there are lots of these morality tracts around that he revealed to anyone who would listen.

Oh and for alchemy specifically Fabrizio Pregadio has this free booklet online as an introduction: https://www.goldenelixir.com/press/occ_03_jindan_history.html

Well, when I say Robinet's overview is brief, I don't mean shallow. It will probably have what you're looking for. And the Saso book, while specific, does explain, in detail, several historical Daoist principles practices. If you want to see a very broad selection of primary texts, Livia Kohn's The Taoist Experience is a good companion to Robinet's history. I've only read small parts of it but Louis Komjathy's The Daoist Tradition looks like a good introduction.

For a brief historical overview, Isabelle Robinet's Taoism: Growth of a Religion is good. For a very specific, up close look at how it is practiced by a highly trained Zhengyi priest in Taiwan, see Michael Saso's Daoist Master Zhuang.

Well, that basically went over my head but the gist if it, if I'm reading you correctly, is "don't listen to these hucksters; if you want to get the star working for you like that you'll have to wait for another year." Would it be wrong though to assume that the god Wenchang can personally help someone as he sees fit, irrespective of astrological considerations?

I found this incantation to Wenchang on a few blogs- 文昌帝君开心聪明咒 or "Lord-Emperor Wenchang's Joy and Intelligence Spell." Don't know where it originates. 九天大帝。身披白衣。 日月照耀。乾坤干随。 有能持诵。聪明如斯。 黄老丹元。与心合宜。 五神卫守。八圣护持。 诵之不辍。万神赴机。 帝司大化。文冶琼瑰。 词源浩荡。笔阵风驰。 九天开化。万章洞微。 元皇上帝。勿稽勿迟。 急急如元皇上帝律令 Here is my incompetent, heavily dictionary-reliant translation (corrections are appreciated): Emperor of the Nine Heavens, clad in white robes, shining as the sun and moon, protector of the cosmos, enable and support this mindful recitation. Yellow elder, Cinnabar Prime, grant a fitting heart. Five spirits, defend; eight sages, protect. This recitation's ceaselessness, myriad gods attend. Emperor ruling great transformations, refining literature to finest jade, vast in vocabulary, pen running like the wind Nine heavens propagate myriad chapters of subtleties. Primal emperor on high, neither scruple nor delay. Thus decrees the primal emperor on high/ Ji ji ru yuan huang shangdi lu ling! I'm not sure if the last line ought to be translated since it is a variant of the typical "Ji ji ru lu ling" which is sort of the Daoist equivalent of "Amen."

Thanks, I had seen a lot of information like that. But since you bring it up, I was wondering about this: I am quite ignorant of astrology. I assume 4 scholastic star = the asterism 司命, somewhere in the vicinity of Aquarius?

Speaking of Zhu Xi, I read about an interesting episode in his life which is probably not relevant to the present discussion but neato anyway. When he was stationed at Nankang there was a severe drought; Zhu Xi performed a number of prescribed prayers and rites to local authorized spirits but to no avail. There was however a spirit whose cult had spread to the area- this deity was authorized in Quanzhou but not in Nankang, so Zhu Xi had avoided his temple. Finally Zhu Xi overcame his scruples and went into this temple, delivering a fervent, anguished prayer and fasting in the temple for up to three days, during which it rained at last. Some scholars have pointed out what they consider to be a subtle but deep shamanic current in Zhu Xi's thinking. I'm not nearly well-read enough to comment further on that.

Remember, you're the Rosa Parks of Dao Bums.

This book has been mentioned elsewhere but I figure it deserves its own thread. I'm about a quarter through it and so far find it to be really good, even if I could quibble on a number of historical or philosophical points. Wen doesn't pretend to be a scholar but nonetheless really does her homework and loads the book with citations, something I suspect is pretty rare in books of this type aimed at Western occult practitioners. Its basic purpose is laying out the methods and rationales of creating fu and in the process she gives what seems to me a fairly comprehensive overview of Chinese cosmological concepts. One thing she acknowledges is that, in Chinese culture, it is usually assumed that a fu needs to be empowered by a duly initiated member of some magical lineage. She makes what seems to me a convincing argument that the principles that go into crafting effective fu are open to anyone who takes the effort to study them, and that the importance of lineage was in protecting people from charlatans and giving a certification that the producer of a fu had been trained and done the work. I think there is an element of Western individualism in the way she presents her argument- which fits her intended audience- but it also seems to fit with what I've seen of folk Chinese magical practices. Anyway I was wondering what others thought of the book (or Daoist magical practice by laypeople).

I'd say it depends- plenty of decent street food vendors who wouldn't do this. You can usually tell who they are by them showing up in the same places. RFA is US state-run media and definitely has an angle in what they choose to report and amplify, even if the actual content is accurate.

Thanks! Another question... can objects like this serve to represent the deity on the altar, or are only deity images (statues, paintings) suitable for that?

I’m sorry I did that, Taomeow. For what it’s worth I think you’re brilliant.

Agreed. And the Motörhead at the end was a perfect touch.

For the simple reason that “shaman” is not a role you chose. It was chosen for you, by the spirits, often with a lot of suffering involved. Your version of Enkidu sounds a bit like a monk, sure, but of course you are leaving out some important details of his story. Look, if you think monasticism is stupid, repressive, whatever, fine. Some important people in your lineage thought otherwise.

Oh yeah it’s an utter cesspool. It’s one thing to be lonely, shy, etc and completely another to gravitate toward a depraved, vicious misogynist ideology often dovetailing with fascism and other forms of reaction.

Not a valid analogy. The collective monastic system developed quite organically from the phenomenon of individual desert hermits, as more aspiring hermits drew near to recognized elders for guidance. At first the monks would remain living apart, only gathering on rare occasions for advice or church services- this is how the skete form of monasticism developed. Later some monks began living together more permanently, necessitating a common rule to maintain harmony and peace- this is the lavra or coenobium. In all cases though the monks were in the desert for the same reason- secluding themselves from “the world” to devote themselves to prayer and asceticism, so it’s not like the lavra was a deviation from the prior ascetic practice. To this day, in both Orthodox and Catholic Churches monasticism exists in all three forms- hermits, sketes, lavras. The hermits are still called monks. In Georgia today there is a famous monk living by himself in a hut on a mountain pillar- he is still called a monk. Many towns in the Russian frontier developed this way- a hermit would head out into the forest; later on someone would find out about him, some other aspiring monks followed. Eventually a monastery developed. Then pilgrims would follow, and merchants would follow the pilgrims, and soon a town came into being. Then some monks, to get away from the bustle, would strike out on their own as hermits, further into the forest, and the process would begin again. It’s very clear that the Quanzhen masters established monasticism almost immediately. Whether you think they were mistaken in doing so is another matter.

The key difference is waiting for the third date before talking about the Annunaki.

Again, monk is from “Monachos,” solitary. The first people to be called monks were guys like Paul of Thebes and Antony the Great. Likewise the word “hermit” comes from these same people, referring to the Egyptian desert they lived in. They lived in huts and caves alone and had no monasteries or rules except whatever ascetic regimen they decided for themselves. Hermits are the first monks. Wang Chongyang alone in his hut is a solitary, a monachos, a monk. For early Quanzhen cultivating in the world was a dead end. If they thought otherwise they wouldn’t insist so strongly on breaking up families. They referred to people still in the world as “walking corpses” and things like that. They were not playing around. I’ll wait for Walker to chime back in before saying more.

Again, hermitage is just the most basic kind of monasticism. Any monasticism is normally entered voluntarily- if you don't like the rule of a particular monastery, you don't have to join. Situations where people are forced into monasteries for political or economic reasons should be considered a deformation of the practice and not a defining feature, even if it was alarmingly common in certain eras. If you wanted to be Wang Chongyang's core disciple, you had to abandon family and become celibate. The Quanzhen masters did open the teachings up to laypeople but they very clearly regarded renunciation of family life as essential to real advancement. So you have stories of Quanzhen disciples doing things like walling themselves inside caves and ignoring the pleas of their wives or children outside.