SirPalomides

I wonder if others can chime in on that. I am aware that the Daoist pantheon has a certain bureaucratic aspect and, by some understandings, only a certified member of the bureaucracy (e.g. a daoshi) is qualified to address certain of the deities directly. But I'm not sure if Chinese religion in general follows this rule. And I would also argue that Chinese religion is hardly unique in this mediated aspect to the gods. The Hellenistic world would be familiar with this kind of religion, which is why St Paul would have sounded pretty radical when he talked about Christ breaking through all the heavenly layers and their attendant angels (the archons) to enable direct access to God.

Could you elaborate? Do you mean that these gods are somehow less benevolent/ compassionate than the Buddhas? Are they irritable powers quick to zap unworthy invokers or sloppy ritualists? I know Buddhist schemas tend to lump Daoist gods in with the powerful but not fully enlightened devas, but I'm pretty sure Daoists don't accept this characterization.

To be clear, I'm not actually in need of a quick and dirty exorcism (that I know of), it's purely idle curiosity here. Holy water seems to do the trick in my experience.

The rationale for holy water is that it has been specifically blessed with some rite for that purpose, often tied to the baptism of Christ in the Jordan river and the descent of the Holy Spirit thereon. Also water generally is associated with cleansing. And a sprinkle or splash of water isn't going to stink up the house. I'm just trying to figure out if there is some folklore or mythology specifically imbuing dog pee with peculiar properties. Rhino horn? Oh dear. Is there a method that doesn't involve A. anybody's pee or B. poaching endangered species?

Yeah my family is from the same neighborhood (Malaysian part of Borneo) and they take the ghost stuff very seriously and there have been all kinds of witchcraft accusations within the family. My uncle has inherited some folk/ lay tradition of writing fu talismans to ward off the bad stuff. I have to improve my Chinese so he can teach me a thing or two.

I see Walker presenting helpful information based on experience. I see Rideforever treating this like a competition.

In Daoism, for instance, the Big Dipper and other stars are accorded great importance as the seats of gods- these deities are worshiped, dancing the pattern of the dipper is important in rituals, and meditations on the big dipper feature in some practices. Immortality is sometimes described in terms like "to age with the sun and moon." In systems deriving from Hellenic philosophy- Aristotelianism, Neo-Platonism, etc.- the stars are likewise regarded as eternal. In the Aristotelian scheme we, who live in the sphere below the moon- the sublunary sphere- are in the realm of change, but the moon and everything above it are unchanging, moving in their fixed courses eternally. And of course there's no shortage of sun and moon gods in various religions around the world.

In case anyone thinks I'm making this up, this is in Eva Wong's Shambhala Guide to Taoism: And I have seen similar accounts in other sources not reliant on Wong, though I can't recall exactly where.

Buddhism developed the understanding of "skillful means," that is, a variety of practices and doctrines adapted to people of different capacity, all leading to the same place. So, to oversimplify it, for persons of higher capacity, the paths of direct enlightenment, madhyamaka, etc. For middling persons, ritual, chanting, austerities, discursive meditations. For persons of lower capacity, devotional practices relying on Buddhas/ deities as beings outside ourselves. Some people But here's where the Pure Land school, as elaborated by Shantao and others, turned this schema on its head- precisely because the Pure Land practice was easy and popular, it was the superior teaching, because it led everyone, regardless of karmic disposition, to enlightenment, especially in the days of dharma decline. The nianfo practice was seen as encompassing everything else. Chan practitioners could put their own spin on it and see the "other power" as a kind of mind-hack for recognizing one's inherent Buddha-nature.

Is there a particular type of cushion used for Daoist meditation? I know zafus are popular in Zen (though I wonder how much this has to do with the modern need to accessorize/ commodify everything). Also, does the color of a cushion matter?

When did those two stars cease being visible? I ask because the Taishang xuanling beidou benming yansheng zhenjing, which I think is from the Song dynasty, names seven stars and their attendant deities.

How would the Buddhas and their Pure Lands figure into Daoist cosmology(ies)? Are they emanations of Daoist deities?

Would this be before the current Beidou yansheng jing was written down? I ask because, at least in Eva Wong's translation, it addresses "The Seven Sacred Deities of the Northern Bushel." Here's something I've long wondered: Considering that we know now that stars are impermanent, that is, that they have life cycles, and some of the stars we see now are already long "dead", how does that gel with the high importance given to astrology in Daoism (and other worldviews)? A more speculative, potentially irrelevant question: How would these astrological systems be adapted to life on other planets or solar systems, where the constellations and movements would be different?

Yeah, unfortunately I didn't have the chance to observe any of the elaborate rites, just the relatively sedate morning liturgy. I've seen videos and read Michael Saso's account of the Jiao ritual, though, so I know that it's not exactly something you dabble in. The endurance and commitment is amazing. I know though that Daoism has many sects and sub-sects, which made me wonder if there was some path for those who didn't have time to spend years learning complex liturgies and meditations. I remember Eva Wong talking about "Action and Karma" school, with the Taishang gan ying pian as the most popular scripture, but I read elsewhere that there really isn't a particular school by that name. What about names of Daoist deities? Has anyone advocated, say, "Namo Yuhuang shangdi," "Namo Xiwang mu," etc.? Would this be considered inappropriate, eccentric, dangerous? Fascinating, I'll have to look into that. This is the one translated by Thomas Cleary, right? Thanks for your post.

I'm sure a lot of lovely people are involved in Falun Gong, but I have to say I'm put off by claims like this one: Or this: Or this:

I could be misreading it but it doesn't seem clear to me whether or not Yan Xin was actually in the sealed chamber manipulating stuff as she assumes. It's quite possible I missed something though. My mom used to attend a Yan Xin qigong group and take me with her. This was in the late 90's. I think I was fairly open-minded but the whole atmosphere was pretty creepy to me. Part of it was that the practice consisted of following along to a tape they played, of a woman reading a set of directions in a hollow monotone. In between instructions she would talk about how awesome Yan Xin is and how his various powers had been "empirically" confirmed. While I recognize, in principle, the importance of teachers/ gurus, I get very uncomfortable when a group is boosting its leader like that.

Thanks, Sean. I should add that Daoism was my first love, as far as religion-philosophy goes. I learned about it in my teens and read about it extensively. I tried to pray, meditate, even do amateurish attempts at magic. There was a lot of delusion involved, for sure. My main problem was, I think, the lack of any organized presence or teacher anywhere near me and I got the impression from certain writers (e.g. Michael Saso) then to be a "real" Daoist one had to be affiliated with one of the old lineages. So I later turned to other paths that seemed more accessible. But revisiting Daoism and also seeing more diverse perspectives from what Daoism really is, I am feeling called back to this path.

Hi everyone. I'm your usual inquirer into Daoism, with a background in Orthodox Christianity, Buddhism, and Marxism. Look forward to cool conversations with weird people.