old3bob

true on the first two paragraphs, which could have some slippery slopes to deal with...as humans there are times that we would like karma to speed up, slow down, or kick in but it doesn't follow our desires...besides there being more to it than easily discernible simple action/reaction that one might know or see.

good point, especially spiritually speaking...

don't follow orders but be ready to pay the ultimate price is how that works...

has that ever worked with the lawless and violent in the world?

I think many would agree with the above for minor or intermediate wrongs but when it comes to major wrongs like dictators or murderers commit (for instance killing from one to millions of people!) in this world who then could name or see a penance to offset or mitigate wrongs at such levels?? A great master could/would still see the Atman or (Buddha nature if you are Buddhist) in such people yet again there is no penance in this world to offset acts of limited or mass murder so then what would a master say or prescribe related to that? Btw, in some Buddhist schools there is this saying: "In some Mahayana Buddhist traditions, there is a story or ethical discussion that a highly realized being (a Bodhisattva) might, out of immense compassion, intentionally kill a person to prevent that person from committing an even greater crime (such as murdering many others), thus saving the potential murderer from accumulating an enormous amount of negative karma that would result in eons of suffering". And in Tibetan Buddhism there is this story: "according to traditional biographies and legends, the Tibetan yogi and spiritual poet Milarepa was a mass murderer in his youth, using black magic to kill 35 people. This dark past is a central part of his famous redemption story within Tibetan Buddhism. The Story of Milarepa's Violence Betrayal and Revenge: After Milarepa's father died, his aunt and uncle seized the family's wealth and property, leaving Milarepa, his mother, and his sister impoverished and effectively as servants. His mother, driven by grief and a desire for justice, insisted that her son learn sorcery to take revenge. Mass Murder: Milarepa left home and found a master of the dark arts. After acquiring these skills, he cast a powerful spell that caused the house where his relatives were celebrating a wedding feast to collapse. Thirty-five people died in the collapse; ironically, his aunt and uncle reportedly survived, though their sons and their wives were among the dead. Further Retaliation: When the remaining villagers became furious and sought to retaliate against his mother, Milarepa sent a hailstorm to destroy their crops. Remorse and Redemption Immediately after these acts of violence, Milarepa was overcome by deep guilt and remorse, realizing the heavy karmic consequences of his actions. This profound regret marked a turning point in his life, leading him to seek a path to purification and enlightenment. He eventually sought out the great Buddhist master Marpa Lotsawa, who subjected him to severe physical and psychological trials for years to purify his negative karma. Milarepa's perseverance and devotion under Marpa's guidance ultimately allowed him to achieve full enlightenment within a single lifetime, transforming him from a murderer to one of the most revered figures in Tibetan Buddhism. His life story is a powerful testament to the Buddhist belief in the possibility of redemption and spiritual transformation, no matter how great the past misdeeds. " ...even with great effort and several earth years of purification work mentioned above it seems it would take far more than that to offset murdering 35 people? As for someone like Stalin maybe it would take 35 million years of suffering for him to come around? or maybe some Beings spend an entire cosmic cycle in the hell realms by refusing to make amends. (all that is above my pay grade so to speak)

11 hours ago, old3bob said: Btw, the following saying is simple and pure, even transcendent in a way without overly lamenting or trying to be profound even if it is profound for a Christian and really for any religion if understood right, "There but for the grace of God go I". "Now you seem to be saying if it was not for God 's grace you might have become a heavy metal musician ?" by Nungali nope, but my experiences with falls could have been worse and farther...

Excerpt from BKS Iyengar, "Light on Yoga" "The yogi opposes the evil in the wrong-doer, but not the wrongdoer. He prescribes penance not punishment for a wrong done. Opposition to evil and love for the wrong-doer can live side by side. A drunkard's wife whilst loving him may still oppose his habit. Opposition without love leads to violence; loving the wrong-doer without opposing the evil in him is folly and leads to misery. The yogi knows that to love a person whilst fighting the evil in him is the right course to follow. The battle is won because he fights it with love." ( implied between human beings)

What the heck are you doing Charlton?

go back 2 to 4 thousand years and read of some of the pointers that Spiritual giants left us.

some of it is better than weird or cult like fiction that is repeated, Btw, many missed their ride on that comet and spaceship a while back and paid with their lives: "in 1997, 39 members of the Heaven's Gate cult died by mass suicide in the belief their souls would board a supposed alien spacecraft they thought was traveling behind the Hale-Bopp comet. They referred to the process as shedding their "bodily containers" or "meat vehicles" to "graduate" to a higher existence".

that fiction about 1825 is not real by many many thousands of years+

@zerostao @old3bob So if you dont mind, I qoute you here over on mentioned thread. What do you make of this... tension perhaps? Always buyer beware.

holy cow, please get real...

well, if stopping with dharma ways then in that vacuum adharma gains... I'd also say its a mistake to somehow conflate Yin with willful evil, when its just the other half of of duality..."These two flow from the same source though differently named" as found in chapter one of the T.T.C. or "One gave birth to Two" as found in chapter 42.

Hello Bindi, that's an aspect also....but I'd still say that when evil is acting (per its hungry diabolical madness, greed and with fear underneath those) to consume but can no longer steal and use energies from others it then only has itself left to consume (known in modern terms as no one else to throw under the bus) and in that way implodes or can no longer continue. I'm no expert on this but from a Christian perspective I know Jesus does not kill evil with evil along with the fact that evil can not steal from Christ-light and thus can not remain around that truth and presence and has to turn away or is turned away... and it can only retreat so far and for so long before the light...