old3bob

"...Continually the Unnameable moves on, Until it returns beyond the realm of things..." from Chap14 I'd say that at the same time it never really left (for how could it do so and still Be?!) although it was in a great dream of leaving.

Ok, I'll trade some quotes: Chap 21, T.T.C. IT lies in the nature of Grand Virtue To follow the Tao and the Tao alone. Now what is the Tao? It is Something elusive and evasive. Evasive and elusive! And yet It contains within Itself a Form. Elusive and evasive! And yet It contains within Itself a Substance. Shadowy and dim! And yet It contains within Itself a Core of Vitality. The Core of Vitality is very real, It contains within Itself an unfailing Sincerity. Throughout the ages Its Name has been preserved In order to recall the Beginning of all things. How do I know the ways of all things at the Beginning? By what is within me.

I would say that the essence/nature of mind is all things, thus not no-thing. or we could say, "The One" encompasses all things and is the first born of the Great Tao.

if the Self (beyond mind) was truly separate it would not be the Self...

in that case it sounds like you would say no separate minds either?

One can extrapolate and see that the US is headed towards a radical right-wing, white nationalist, and megalomaniac dictatorship... btw, remember all the fairly well established people in Russia that suddenly fell out of windows to their death when affirming their rights or are suspects, in North Korea they are lined up and obliterated with anti-aircraft guns... (and trump says he loves Kim or that Putin is a strong leader while putting down our own American intelligence agencies) In America lots of decent citizens get death threats some of which have been carried out (or attempted) when speaking against trump and his goons. The good old days of rationally agreeing to disagree and or compromise are few and far between and going away by day or even by the hour!

which would mean "no-one" is present to leave it as is...

interesting thing about the mind is that it is not really an our minds or my mind which are only apparent, but the mind.

any argument has convolutions of one sort or another...

yep, so simple that thought can not nail it down...

Some karma can be described/felt (per an analogy) like rusty flakes of iron and iron (or the soul that it is covered with it will be pulled via a magnetic like field effect, (so to speak) until there is no iron left, also and at times a great master can hep by temporality holding karma in way so that a student can get a break and a moment of freedom/inspiration away from the weight.

I don't think it would be given as a requirement, as for the atheist or materialist pov I'd say such can not wrap it's head (so to speak) around 'no-thing' which is not equal to nothing as is pointed towards in chap 43 of the T.T.C.. (even if the English word nothing is used in some translations)

what exists in the non-manifest other than the non-manifest, "no-thing" which maybe a tiny fraction of beings are ready to pay the full price for? (as in no coming back to any form, thus no longer being a particular being)

Just some random associations: what purpose for that that is "dismantled" in the first place? What purpose for the mud that the lotus flower has roots in, should that be dismantled, what then of the flower?

they got around this problem on "Star Gate": "Communication is key. That’s true on Earth and it’s true in space. But in space, you need to contend with a crucial fact of life. The speed of light is finite and distances between worlds are pretty big; between star systems they are enormous. A recent analysis envisions what it would be like to communicate with a spacecraft traveling close to the speed of light. And it is certainly not good news. In their analysis, which is posted to a preprint server and is yet to be peer-reviewed, researchers David Messerschmitt, Ian Morrison, Thomas Mozdzen, and Philip Lubin envision two scenarios with a spaceship traveling close to the speed of light. This vehicle doesn’t exist (yet) but nothing in physics denies that it might be possible to build. It’s a vehicle that never goes out of thrust and moves with an acceleration of 1g, the same as the pull of gravity while we stand on the Earth. The first scenario sees a spaceship maintaining this acceleration as it moves away from Earth. At first, the communication will work, although with a lag due to the finiteness of the speed of light, but after a while messages from Earth won’t be able to reach the spacecraft anymore. As the craft gets nearer and nearer the speed of light, it will always be a step ahead of the message. The spacecraft will then no longer be in contact with Earth. Cosmic RevolutionVoyager 1:rth's farthest spacecraft Real ScienceThe Problem with Deep Space Travel this is on board of the craft. An object moving close to the speed of light experiences time dilation. Its clock slows down. So for someone on board, the spaceship accelerating at 1g would take just 20 years to reach the center of the galaxy (which is 26,000 light-years away). And just 45 years to reach the edge of the visible universe (tens of billions of light-years away). The second scenario sees the spacecraft accelerating at 1g for a while before decelerating at 1g as it approaches a destination. The communication from Earth would be affected in the same way as the first case, until during the deceleration phase when all the messages caught up with the spaceship. The destination instead could communicate with the spacecraft but the messages will tend to accumulate as the spaceship gets closer. You won’t be getting a nicely spread-out set of messages announcing their arrival long before they are very close. “Interstellar spacecraft and their crews must accept highly autonomous operations, and abandon notions of maintaining operational and social interactions with those at the origin or destination throughout the mission, with the exception of a short period following launch or prior to landing,” the authors wrote in the paper. The work looked at some classical and relativistic effects but there are even more that have not been considered that would affect the communications. The signals from a moving ship will experience a Doppler effect like an ambulance siren’s pitch changing if it’s approaching or driving away from you. So you need antennas that can detect light whose frequency will change over time. And there’s relativistic aberration: the light of a moving object is concentrated conically towards the direction of motion. So if we ever build a spacecraft, its crew will be on their own after a while. The paper has been posted to the preprint server arXiv. An earlier version of this article was published in December 2023.