old3bob

none of that was news to me Michael, Btw the word "you" was overused above as Mark might say...anyway fancy sounding or philosophical excuses that don't cut the mustard in this world or the others are not enough...

I'd say ideally yes, but not ideally no, as in repeating mistakes without good or reasonable excuses...for instance industrial accidents that never should have happened but someone was careless even though they knew better.

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Going by the math of karma everything is perfect or as it should be for a moment, a very short moment being that all things and energies are in constant flux and states of change which does not leave out relative reality or beings in time and space...so I think it safe to say things are constantly improving per evolution or going down per devolution and then probably going back again. If one exercises no relative will along with hard gained degrees of wisdom then they will be thrown about like be a leaf in the wind, but if they do excise whatever degree of will and wisdom they have then they can hopefully anchor and center themselves for the better. So profound sounding sayings like, "nothing else could have been done differently" are full of holes imo. Btw, beyond time and space is a different ball game.

are some getting fatalistic? a little bit of will changes things a little bit, more will makes for more changes, complete unity of will can change everything...I not claiming that just echoing it. Anyway changes must start with a little bit of will if one feels helpless and then progress bit by bit on that. He who takes care of all the small things ends up taking of big things before they get big. (my paraphrase from The T.T.C.)

more correctly quoted from Zen: “Before one studies Zen, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters.” ― Dōgen

yew, oops that a wood of some type right? Anyway we using we is more to our and us's likings, even if we are easy...granted we could be making assumptions if we use we.

"first there is a mountain, then there is no mountain then there is", so i'd say to get hung up on the no mountain part (or negation) is not it, and "buyer beware". "It’s at the third stage, when mountains are once again mountains and rivers are once again rivers, that we really understand; we reconcile the paradox. This is where we learn to dwell in both the transcendent reality and the immanent one." (which btw is also pointed to in the Isha Upanishad)

pure energy comes from one source, differences it may take on are ultimately and only apparent.

Eknath Easwaran Translation "The Inner Ruler" All this is full. All that is full. From fullness, fullness comes. When fullness is taken from fullness, Fullness still remains. O M shanti shanti shanti 1. The Lord is enshrined in the hearts of all. The Lord is the supreme Reality. Rejoice in him through renunciation. Covet nothing. All belongs to the Lord. 2. Thus working may you live a hundred years. Thus alone will you work. 3. Those who deny the Self are born again Blind to the Self, enveloped in darkness, Utterly devoid of love for the Lord. 4. The Self is one. Ever still, the Self is Swifter than thought, swifter than the senses. Though motionless, he outruns all pursuit. Without the Self, never could life exist. 5. The Self seems to move, but is ever still. He seems far away, but is ever near. He is within all, and he transcends all. 6. Those who see all creatures in themselves And themselves in all creatures know no fear. 7. Those who see all creatures in themselves And themselves in all creatures know no grief. How can the multiplicity of life Delude the one who sees its unity? 8. The Self is everywhere. Bright is the Self, Indivisible, untouched by sin, wise, Immanent and transcendent. He it is Who holds the cosmos together. 9-11. In dark night live those for whom The world without alone is real; in night Darker still, for whom the world within Alone is real. The first leads to a life Of action, the second to a life of meditation. But those who combine action with meditation Cross the sea of death through action And enter into immortality Through the practice of meditation. So have we heard from the wise. 12-14. In dark night live those for whom the Lord Is transcendent only; in darker still, For whom he is immanent only. But those for whom he is transcendent And immanent cross the sea of death With the immanent and enter into Immortality with the transcendent. So have we heard from the wise. 15. The face of truth is hidden by your orb Of gold, O sun. May you remove your orb So that I, who adore the true, may see 16. The glory of truth. O nourishing sun, Solitary traveler, controller, Source of life for all creatures, spread your light And subdue your dazzling splendor So that I may see your blessed Self. Even that very Self am I! 17. May my life merge in the Immortal When my body is reduced to ashes. O mind, meditate on the eternal Brahman. Remember the deeds of the past. Remember, O mind, remember. 18. O god of fire, lead us by the good path To eternal joy. You know all our deeds. Deliver us from evil, we who bow And pray again and again. O M shanti shanti shanti

preparations in a life of working with Dharma's is very important but is not a guarantee that it leads to enlightenment, if so it could be done by an ego's subtle design. The Self chooses the Self (since Hinduism was brought up in your post) or Spirit chooses Spirit and sees through any of ego's designs.

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and there is that saying of "a drop returning to the ocean", after that there is only the ocean for the individual drop as some sayings go is no more. That is the ultimate price to pay and in this world it doesn't seem like most us are ready (myself included) or willing to pay it or even recognize that, but many like the idea of being an individual super something or other. Mountains of hard work and help are needed to reach zero resistance to that truth of power and that can not be done with simple new age platitudes or just intellectual concepts which are ok to start with. For instance If we want to be one with a lighting bolt (as a metaphor for kundalini shakti) when it strikes we better be ready or get burnt! For there is more than just a gentle, soft or kind aspect, which are also appreciated...

hey, hey, what do you say to a drunken Tao bum early in the morning....

From Small Fur: "This unity (the one) that is no longer dual (the two: yin and yang) is the conjoining of dharma and anti-dharma not as polarities of tension, but now as a perfection of harmony (the Taiji). This is the Consciousness of the shen dao (consciousness of the Tao itself from Wuji) by recognition of the one whose consciousness has reunited with the Original (yuan shen). In time when you come into full enlightenment, you will realize that in Emptiness there is no thing that can be named, as there is neither dharma nor anti-dharma and by this same token it is how dharma and anti-dharma also exist. This perfected consciousness in understanding is why we realize dharma itself is immaterial: because it is merely a concept. Yet an invaluable concept nonetheless, and one that we must embrace with our hearts, if our minds (shen as mind-spirit) are to be Liberated of all things- including this concept from within the maya." - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I have a some differences or ways of expressing about several of your points above. Btw, I don't have a Taoist background or training at all, and have just read the T.T.C. and some other Taoist teachings thus it follows I'm not up all the Taoist terms you've used. Anyway to me the "One" as described as the first born of the Great Tao (which to me is more than a concept since it is connected to Tao) could be said to be an all inclusive circle with everything in and under it, so yes Dharma and anti-Dharma, love through hate, are all in the big ball of wax so to speak. And then there is the saying that, "only no-thing can enter into no space" with the word emptiness often used in reference to it, but to me that word is empty of meaning in trying to point to that since it tends to have a nihilistic connotation in the west although it is profusely used in a far more applicable context in the east. And again to me dharma/law is not just a concept but a way to return, a way to lesson karma and weaken ego as you also seem to be saying in your own way? Btw, to me Maya is a major concept when only taken as so called illusion like Advaita Vedanta says along with a great many other eastern and western schools, but not by all of them... I'm not really qualified to represent that but feel ok in mentioning it without getting into the all of the possible conundrums. There are few great Sages that (have the mission to) reveal themselves but I'm thankful that some have and helped struggling mankind (and me) with more than just abstractions but have put themselves on the line and sacrificed in profound ways, so to me that relates to the full meaning of Shen or Spirit which is more than just reaching a transcendent realm or methods of reaching deeper awareness but without karma yoga included. Regards, Bob P.S. also from Small Fur: "To put simply, once you arrive at the enlightened understanding, you realize the enlightenment that passes through all things, you see the shen (spirit) in all things, and you experience the being(s) as the immortal Buddha." - - - - - - - Indeed! to know and be that in an eternal moment is the most wonderful freedom! but then karma pulls us back into time and space and our old self, so to keep at it will test us to the limits; (with there being big difference's in paths for householders, renunciates and those in between) which I'd say one needs a masters/guru's guidance for since it is not done without having help in certain ways. Many do not believe in the value of true masters/guru's (partly because there have been lots of hyped-up or false ones) and thus there is disdain for the idea of their authority because several bad apples must mean to them that they are all bad apples...

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many say enlightenment has to do with the 7th Chakra (violet/white light consciousness') along the smooth workings of the rest of them.

Small Fur, thanks, that was a little above my grade but I can dig it. Btw, have you studied the Upanishads which I favor over a lot of what to me are the abstractions of Buddhism.

hello no, you are fine as you are. Btw bellybuttons would be more difficult to get sand out of them without water, but of course most gals would not want a stranger on the beach doing that...

what in the world is the satisfaction of not interacting with people at the site after 19 years?

if we don't help someone, no one is going to help us....karma

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