old3bob

individual minds do not need a physical body or brain excepting that those are used as interfaces to the physical world, while and for instance in the subtle realms there are minds or one could say mental bodies... many folks here have been out of our body and brain restrictions and give witness to same... btw I'd say the Tibetan Wheel of Life depicts such by showing the non-earthly beings in those various realms.

My two cents, The Self sees the mind for what it is, a THING, whether or ranging from the purest and most subtle dharmic thing to the grossest and most impure adharmic thing.

of course the term mind is used differently in meaning and usage when it comes to comparisons between Buddhism and Hinduism, Thanks for your post but it shows/reminds me of the convoluted quandary that I hear and don't follow when it comes to the Buddhist definition/pointer concerning "mind". I'd add that to me a pure mind is nothing more than a tool for the Self, the Self as pointed to in the Upanishads.

if your head hurts don't worry it's an "illusion", btw its suggested to have one's feet on the ground.

"Perhaps" somewhere between "to be or not to be" ... By Yutang Lin "Teaching of "Non-form" indicates non-attachment to form. Misinterpreted, it is adopted as holding to absence of form. Abiding in no forms at all, one falls into the abyss of void. Only in no grasping to form or non-form lies true liberation".

there is nowhere and no-time where God is not...

Sounds debatable: see my underline below... so most would agree that only things are born or die while the underline says, "this nature itself remains beyond birth or death" In his Khenjuk, Mipham Rinpoche writes: The 'naturally present potential' (Skt. prakṛtistha-gotra; Wyl. rang bzhin gnas rigs) is the essence of the tathagatas. In essence, it is naturally arising and uncompounded wisdom, the union of awareness and emptiness, the dharmadhatu which has always been inseparable from the kayas and wisdoms. It is naturally pure, the nature of things, just as it is, pervading all phenomena, beyond any transition or change, like space. Although it is within this context that the ordinary aggregates, elements and faculties of beings are born and die, this nature itself remains beyond birth and death. It is through the realization of this nature that the Three Jewels come into being. This immaculate 'element' (Wyl. khams) is present in all beings without exception as the very nature of their minds, just like the example of a treasure beneath the earth and so on. Nevertheless, for those in whom this nature remains veiled by the four stains, and who have not activated their potential, despite its presence, it does not function in an apparent way [rather like a candle kept inside a jar]. And although they are naturally pure, because they are obscured by temporary veils, this nature is beyond most people's imagination. If the veils that obscure the potential are reduced, it serves to inspire us with a longing to leave samsara behind and attain nirvana. The four veils that obscure our potential are (1) an antipathy to the Mahayana teachings, (2) the view of self, (3) fear for the sufferings of samsara, and (4) a lack of concern for beings' welfare. The causes for purifying these veils are: (1) an interest in the Mahayana teachings, (2) a high degree of wisdom, (3) meditative concentration (samadhi), and (4) love. When we possess these four, through the force of awakening our potential, we come to possess the 'developing potential' (Skt. samudānīta-gotra; Wyl. rgyas 'gyur gyi rigs) through which we can properly cultivate the virtues of the Mahayana.

you mean you don't have any applicable quotes already handy in your memory yet knew of the related history? (Oh btw. we are in a Buddhist sub-forum and I'm not qualified to teach Buddhism or much else for that matter but then again I could give a quote here and there as you say) “There is, Oh Monks, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. Monks, if that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded.” Buddha

the term and its esoteric/mystic meaning are well known in several forms of Hinduism/Yoga, btw variations are also found in the Bible, both in the Old and New testaments. (although meanings are so often and heavily veiled over in the Bible that some people just dismiss them)

but not counter to the recorded words of the Buddha that directly imply same

I sometimes wonder why the historic Buddha did not say that Buddha nature is the first Noble Truth instead of suffering...?

my two cents, all types of bodies evolve (or devolve)...the Self is not a body, is always present and does not evolve. (or devolve)

no myth about it, a golden being can reveal themselves as being so to others if there is a strong need and compassionate purpose to do so, until then others may just take it as a myth.

Morihei Ueshiba "I felt the universe suddenly quake and a golden spirit sprang up from the ground, veiled my body, and changed my body into a golden one. At the same time, my body became light. I was able to understand the whispering of the birds and was aware of the mind of God, the creator of the universe. At that moment I was enlightened: the source of budō [the martial way] is God's love – the spirit of loving protection for all beings ... Budō is not the felling of an opponent by force; nor is it a tool to lead the world to destruction with arms. True Budō is to accept the spirit of the universe, keep the peace of the world, correctly produce, protect and cultivate all beings in nature."

umm, Buddhists should respond to all the convoluted (to me) Buddhist quotes, but thanks anyway Mark.

Well I'd say a joy that is inherently "truth, knowledge, bliss" and related freedom does not exactly arise, it already is...(even if and when veiled) known as Satchidananda in Vedic terms. from the web... "what is Satchidananda? It's a combination of three words: Sat, Chid, Ananda. Sat means Existence or Truth. Chid is the expression, knowledge, of it. Ananda is the Bliss you get out of it. So Truth, Knowledge, Bliss is what we mean by the word Satchidananda"

well an iperience with/as spirit - which could be expressed as joy springing forth without having its opposite of sorrow standing by in the wings...(so to speak)

so and rhetorical question like, is there any reason not to comment that there is the "emotion" of Spirit, and there is the 'emotion" of mankind, (and also all creatures) thus be a lot more flexible with that term?

(ah, more rhetorical like questions) Spirit does as it will...whether seen or unseen, whether heard or unheard by us humans... "....The idea of rocks crying out in praise to the Lord is poetic, startling imagery. Throughout Scripture are similar poetic passages that present inanimate objects praising God. For example, in Psalm 114:6, the mountains leap. Isaiah 55:12 says, “You will go out in joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.” Throughout Psalm 148, there are numerous examples of created things praising their Creator—the sun, moon, stars, heavens, water, sky, animals, and people. Everyone and everything was created for the pleasure of the sovereign Lord..." I'd say that besides only the Bible context above, many things and stars do sing. (reliably) There is also the Lord of Dance - Lord Nataraja...(Shiva) in Vedic context.

is that a rhetorical type question? All forms are forms including human ones, spirit sees that.

and there is a related saying that goes something like,...instead of a human having a spiritual experience, we are a spirit having a human experience.

the escape velocity for the broad range of souls on earth with our broad range of earthly karma's is pretty high! In the meantime and with help that doesn't mean visits are not possible.

I'd say that's crap about some being soul-less...although some may become seriously veiled, comatose like, enthralled somehow or partially caught in some loka that in comparison to most others they seem soul-less - but lets not forget that rock crystals have some level of "soul", trees have some level of soul, etc..thus a still biologically alive human being has to have some level of soul connection through their silver cord, if not that cord would be cut and their form would be reduced to simple elemental compounds (with death turning it to dust) where there was once soul connection and force which then has completely left. So considering that I'd say some are very wrong to walk around making generalization's about "no soul" .

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