old3bob

Umm, not the same, "as Self in this case" although that may be a common take of orthodox Buddhism, but I'd say it is not the take of Sanatana Dharma.

the Upanishads (revealed from Self realized Rishis) do a good job at pointing... and have no problem with the term Self.

appearances or veils.. I'd say "Self" is far beyond affirmation or negation and also conflation with emptiness by mind.

again his words are clever, convoluted and kind of profound sounding for or to an impressionable person but are still just rafts that get part way...Btw no knows for sure what another knows unless they meet as the Self which knows it-Self

"According to the theory of emptiness, any belief in an objective reality grounded in the assumption of intrinsic, independent existence is simply untenable. All things and events, whether 'material', mental or even abstract concepts like time, are devoid of objective, independent existence ... Things and events are 'empty' in that they can never possess any immutable essence, intrinsic reality or absolute 'being' that affords independence. - 14th Dalai Lama" Someday he may come across the eternal unchanging Self (which imo the historic Buddha speaks of in a round about way as recorded in Buddhist scripture) then the Lama will be able to to refute his past and clever intellectual assumptions, if not then that is as it is.

"The City of Refuge": another powerfully permeated place with special feeling of and for Hawaiian people and their ancient spiritual ways, Located on Kona side of the Big Island. As far as I know It is called the city of refuge because in the olden times of the Hawaiian inter-island or tribal like wars (which were pretty horrific) anyone who made it to this site had agreed upon refuge and safety.

"The following peoples have geographical, historical and/or cultural ties to the Tower: Lakota Cheyenne Crow Arapahoe Shoshone Kiowa Aside from the Kiowa, all of these tribes are considered Northern Plains Tribes. All six of these groups lived in or near the region known today as the Black Hills. The Tower is situated in the northwest corner of this region. In addition to, or inclusive with, the six groups listed above, there are over two dozen individual tribes affiliated with the Tower. Ceremonies may occur at the Tower any time of the year, & not always visible to visitors. NPS photo Cultural and Spiritual Connections The connections which tie American Indian culture to the place known as Devils Tower are both ancient and modern. Oral histories and sacred narratives explain not only the creation of the Tower, but also its significance to American Indians. They detail peoples' relationships with the natural world, and establish those relationships through literal and symbolic language. Today there are several sources one can reference to read the various oral histories. 2 Modern connections are maintained through personal and group ceremonies. Sweat lodges, sun dances, and others are still practiced at the monument today.1 The most common ritual that takes place at the Tower are prayer offerings. Colorful cloths or bundles are placed near the Tower - commonly seen along the park's trails - and represent a personal connection to the site. They are similar to ceremonial objects from other religions, and may represent a person making an offering, a request, or simply in remembrance of a person or place. As with many religious ceremonies, they are a private to the individual or group. Please do not touch, disturb or remove prayer cloths or other religious artifacts at the park. It is important to note a key difference between American Indian religions and many other contemporary religions (referred to as "western" or "near eastern" religions): a sense of place dominates the religion of American Indians, as opposed to the sense of time that dominates many western religions. Instead of a focus of chronological events and the order in which they are presented, American Indian religion focuses on a place and the significant events that are connected with that location. Although western religions have their important places, they do not hold the level of sacredness associated with the important places of American Indian religions. The Sun Dance ceremony is often held at the park, although not every year. This photo shows the set up of a site from the 1980s. NPS photo Tribal Connections Many of the tribes below have a sacred narrative, or oral history, about the creation of the Tower. You can read some of these oral histories on our park website. Arapahoe Arapahoes call Devils Tower "Bear's Tipi." 1 Sherman Sage, an Arapahoe, said that his grandfather, Drying-Up-Hide, was buried near the Tower.2 Cheyenne The Cheyenne call Devils Tower "Bear's Lodge," "Bear's House," "Bear's Tipi," and "Bear Peak."1 The Cheyenne camped and hunted at Bear's Lodge in the winter and consider it a holy place.2 "A band of Cheyenne Indians went on one of its visits to 'Bear's Tipi' to worship the Great Spirit, as did many other tribes before the white man came. The Cheyenne braves took their families with them as they felt that would be safe, as Bear's Tipi was a holy place."2 Devils Tower is where Sweet Medicine died and it is his final earthly resting place. Sweet Medicine is the great culture hero of the Cheyenne who brought the Four Sacred Arrows to the tribe. The Four Sacred Arrows' sanctuary was located within a secret cave on the south side of Bear's Lodge.1 Sweet Medicine also founded the Cheyenne Warrior Societies, tribal government, special laws, and ceremonies. As Sweet Medicine lay dying in a hut by Bear's Lodge, he foretold a dark prophecy of the coming of the horse;the disappearance of the old ways and the buffalo, to be replaced by slick animals with split hoofs the people must learn to eat (cattle). He told of the coming of white men, strangers called Earth Men who could fly above the earth, take thunder from light, and dig up the earth and drain it until it was dead.2 Crow The Crow call Devils Tower "Bear Lodge." 1 The Crow people were known to fast and worship at Devils Tower and built small stone "dream houses" there as part of these vision quests. The stone dream houses were about as long as a man is tall. A man would recline inside with his head to the east and feet to the west, "like the rising and setting sun."2 Kiowa The Kiowa call Devils Tower "Aloft on a Rock" and "Tree Rock." The oral histories of the Kiowa people link Tree Rock with their astronomical knowledge.1 "...origin memories of American Indian people reveal none anywhere 'as bright- and remote-' as the Kiowas memories of their days in the Black Hills and at Devils Tower."2 Lakota The Lakota people call Devils Tower "Bear Lodge," "Bear Lodge Butte," "Grizzly Bear's Lodge," "Mythic-owl Mountain," "Grey Horn Butte," and "Ghost Mountain." 1 Of the may tribes associated with the Tower, the Lakotas arguably have the strongest connections (or at least the most well-documented). The Lakotas often had winter camps at Devils Tower, documented as far back as 1816. Lakotas have an ancient and sacred relationship with the Black Hills, including Bear Lodge and Inyan Kara. The Black Hills are the Lakotas' place of creation.1 A Sioux legend tells of a Lakota band camped in the forest at the foot of Bear Lodge. They were attacked by a band of Crow. With the assistance of a huge bear, the Lakota were able to defeat the Crow.2 At Devils Tower, they fasted, prayed, left offerings, worshipped the "Great Mystery" (the essence of Lakota spiritual and religious life), and performed sweatlodge ceremonies. Lakota pray for health, welfare, and personal direction.1 The healing ceremony is known to have been performed at Bear Lodge, conducted by a healing shaman. The Great Bear, Hu Numpa, imparted the sacred language and ceremonies of healing to Lakota shamans at Bear Lodge. In this way, Devils Tower is considered the birthplace of wisdom.1 "White Bull told of 'honor men' among the people who went up close to Devils Tower for four-day periods, fasting and praying. There they slept on beds of sagebrush, taking no food or water during this time. Once, five great Sioux leaders-Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, Red Cloud, Gall, and Spotted Tail-went there together to worship. We did not worship the butte, but worshipped our God."2 Vision quests are a very intense form of prayer requiring much preparation, fasting, purification rite (sweatlodge/inipi), and solitude.1 It is a ritual integral to the construction of Lakota identity. In addition to learning lore and moral teachings, individuals who seek visions "often regain clarity of purpose in their lives and a secure identity as a member of their tribe." Men and women may seek a vision for a variety of reasons: to give thanks, to ask for spiritual guidance, or simply to pray in solitude.3 One of Devils Tower National Monument's archaeological sites, assessed by archaeologist Bruce Jones in 1991, is a post-1930's shelter made of stone and wood which could have been used for vision quests. A Lakota legend tells of a warrior undergoing a vision quest at the base of Bear Lodge for two days. Suddenly, he found himself on the summit. He was frightened since he did not know how to get back down. After praying to the Great Spirit for assistance he fell asleep. Upon awakening, he found himself back down from the butte.2 The Lakotas traditionally held their sacred Sun Dance at Devils Tower around the summer solstice. The Belle Fourche River was known to the Lakotas as the Sun Dance River.1 Bear Lodge is considered a sacred place of renewal. The Sun Dance is a ceremony of fasting and sacrifice that leads to the renewal of the individual and the group as a whole. The Sun Dance takes away the pain of the universe or damage to Nature. The participant suffers so that Nature stops suffering. The Sun Dance is "...the supreme rite of sacrifice for the society as a whole [and] a declaration of individual bravery and fortitude... Young men went through the Sun Dance annually to demonstrate their bravery as though they themselves had been captured and tortured, finally struggling to obtain their freedom."3 The tearing of the pierced flesh is symbolic of obtaining freedom and renewal. NPS records indicate that modern Sun Dance ceremonies have been held at Devils Tower since 1983. The Lakotas also received the White Buffalo Calf Pipe, the most sacred object of the Lakota people, at Bear Lodge by White Buffalo Calf Woman, a legendary spiritual being. The sacred pipe's sanctuary was located within a secret cave on the north side of Bear Lodge.1 In 1875, General George A. Custer swore by the pipe that he would not fight Indians again. "He who swears by the pipe and breaks oaths, comes to destruction, and his whole family dies, or sickness comes upon them."3 Pipes often are held as sacred objects used in vision quests, Sun Dances, sweatlodge rites, and in making peace. Shoshone The Eastern (Plains) Shoshone claim to have a sacred association with Devils Tower. Their religious world, however, is kept very secret and, as a result, cannot be documented at this time. References Hanson, J. R. and S. Chirinos. 1991. "Ethnographic Overview and Assessment of Devils Tower National Monument." University of Texas, Arlington. Gunderson, M. A. 1988. "Devils Tower - Stories in Stone." High Plains Press. Glendo, Wyoming. Evans, M. J. et. al. "NAGPRA Consultation and the National Park Service." An Ethnographic Report on Pipe Springs National Monument, Devils Tower National Monument, Tuzigoot National Monument, Montezuma National Monument, and the Western Archaeological and Conservation Center. March 4, 1993. Bureau of Applied R"

So called, "devils tower" but also called "Bear Lodge" by American Indians is located in north-eastern Wyoming and is a powerful, prayerful place.

so the force was with you ...and you didn't even have to pull out the light saber!

there could be some satisfaction in knowing it took four on one to corral you!

Ida and pingala nadi flows also have certain sounds and there is another when they balance and merge... I've heard high pitched E sounds on and off since the early 70's... don't hear them when mind is caught up in too much crap.

nothing sexy about it when you are all the way inside one of these small tubes for 45 minutes or so and can't move and are pounded repeatedly with loud noise! I went through the process once and was really exhausted after I got out...maybe the newer MRI's are better but I don't know.

not as bad as the machine they put you all the way inside and then the thing pulses like crazy!

just kick in the lift kit and bounce it around 180 degrees...

can not be gained by ego, to become a super-duper ego

perhaps include what it is not....

limo with a helicopter pad, you got to be kidding me!

btw who is that?

A stargate right under our noses, but only for inter-dimensional & invisible beings...or very advanced Tao bums. (oh I forgot, since Bigfoots are inter-dimensional they can use it too, although they must bathe first)

Been over that dam several times and every time I wanted to go into the visitors center for their tour but it was so jam packed with people that I just kept going. Maybe someday...

how is it that this tower (finished in 1372) has not come down yet? (I'd keep my distance, not like the tourists mingling around at its base ) note: some brave but risk taking person has been going to the top and keeping the flagpole set straight .

well the space needle has been standing since 1962, so they must have done something right in building it. Btw. I wonder how often the elevator failed over the years and if so how people got down? ...or why they never added bungee jumping off the side

had lunch way up there long ago...

Never been there, it looks cool and I bet pricy.