old3bob

btw is this a this a Klingon structure of some sort?

what, I thought you were from "down under"?

but not as pretty as this one imo San Francisco

Not a wild cat but a good hunter of local mice, our little Tao cat who passed several years ago...

I'd say that when the Buddha said, "may all beings be happy" he cut directly through and refuted all the countless, high sounding sayings of convoluted mish-mash and nihilistic like ponderings of lost simplicity that are counter to Spirit...

it's far wiser to know that we don't know...most of us anyway. I suggest study of the Upanishads if you haven't done so already and know everything without a doubt. (btw, a "without a doubt" is impossible for the dualistic mind since doubt is connected at the hip to it)

I think most of this talk of mechanical like manipulation of energies is a good way to get into trouble, as Lairg has recounted per experience above.

btw, I'd say that nobody can put Self Realization into a box to contain it and then hand it off to anyone else, although some may point to or allude to in great detail along with sharing reflections and concepts but it's still up to us as teachings say (with an "x" amount of help from teachers) to find out first hand for ourselves.

Since we are in the Hindu forum and in case you are interested in further teachings and definition's, I'd suggest reading the major and Revealed teachings of Upanishads if you haven't already? They can easily be found on the internet or in book form. Btw, If one wants to more or less try mixing Hinduism and Buddhism it will probably be problematic x a lot!

note the last quotation mark after absurd which I quoted, for there are no quotation marks around my parentheses which has the statement of I for me.

and you also said this: "When someone doesn't understand this contextually and takes "parabrahman" to literally be a thing beyond "brahman" (which is already considered infinite, unknowable, and so on), it is simply absurd." (and I'd say it is not a matter of a thing as you are labeling)

Btw, when does one school of Hinduism call or imply that another school of Hinduism is "absurd"?....

Why and how so? I'd say normal life and death (of woven beings) are like appearances that come and go, while un-differentiated Spirit is and remains beyond those appearances yet gives them force to exist in time and space. On a simpler level this can be proven if one stops breathing, with breathe and heart beat being derived from the force of Spirit. (or pure Prana)

Brahman, that which is clearly unlimited in scope, and never can be nailed down...no matter the amount of misinformation or misunderstanding around It. Btw a core teaching or precept in Hinduism (verified by historic facts) is that it respects/tolerates its various major branches and sects that span a very, very wide spectrum of teachings, many of which don't always agree on many things, and going further to include the same for teachings outside of Hinduism, (remember Gandhi?) thus it is incredulous to paste being limited in scope upon it!

that would take some study on the study...and it is obvious you put a great deal of hard work into it! btw, and a sideline of some additional perplexing points: #1. for those that may be interested there several Saivite schools besides just the Kashmir School; they have important common ground and they also have key differences that they have not reconciled and may never reconcile. #2. some schools in Hinduism do not recognize the Bhagavad Gita as revealed scripture at all, as are the Upanishads (from the Vedas) and several other major works of Hinduism. back on subject...who does this recognizing? (which is commonly known as a power of the mind)

reaching, realizing, falling, no falling, veiling, unveiling, if the drift is there how much should we argue about it with terms that can never be exactly fitted for that which can not be nailed down? (although schools all need to agree on terms/concepts within their own fold) Btw who or what realizes Brahman but Brahman itself...

There the saying that, "The Self knows the Self" or some variation of that and "that" can not be nailed down. if one reaches Satchidananda, can one later fall from it even though it does not fall, but if one reaches Brahman and Brahman reaches them can one later fall from that, or is that beyond a falling back...and who or what would there be to fall back?

There is a well known and often used preface type of prayer in Hinduism, namely: "Lead me from the unreal to the real, Lead me from darkness to light, Lead me from death to immortality. Om shanti shanti shanti..." So and for instance one might logically ask where does the "unreal" end & the "real" begin, and how could an unreal and a real be connected which would make for an incongruent saying? (using the graphic example below of the Sacred Yantra - where exactly does an "unreal" and thus separate exist? thus how can one reconcile said prayer with schools of non-duality that also use it?

Swami Yogananda did all sorts of correlating along such lines in his famous autobiography, which btw is not accepted or used by many schools of Hinduism...anyway if you have not read it, it might be of interest to you.

its not my analogy, I was more or less trying to paraphrase the following from the Chandogya Upanishad: 1-2. [Uddālaka said,] ‘Put this lump of salt into water and come to me in the morning.’ Śvetaketu did as he was told. Uddālaka said to him, ‘My son, bring me the salt that you put in the water.’ Śvetaketu looked, but he could not find it, as the salt had dissolved in the water. [Uddālaka said,] ‘My son, drink the water at the surface.’ [Śvetaketu did that, and Uddālaka asked,] ‘How does it taste?’ [Śvetaketu replied,] ‘It is saline.’ [Uddālaka then said:] ‘Drink it from the middle. How does it taste?’ ‘It is saline.’ ‘Drink it from the bottom. How does it taste?’ ‘It is saline.’ ‘Throw the water away and then come to me.’ Śvetaketu did so, The father said to him..." and it goes further from there. Btw, I'm not so sure about purposely high sounding sayings or concepts as you seem to be, The Revealed sayings in the Upanishads, Tao Teh Ching and Zen which point the way are enough for me to deal with, non-the-less your comments add to the discussion.

umm, with orthodox Christianity being very dualistic I'd say it's a hard stretch to relate or correlate it to non-dualistic schools in the east unless one gets very esoteric and or mystical, but even then it's a difficult row to hoe, as far as I know.

yes, it sounds like you are echoing the Isha Upanishad...

or...water does not fall out of saltwater and neither does salt fall out of saltwater

I'd put it more simply by saying one can not fall out of the Self and the Self can not fall out all beings.