old3bob

ok, yet again where does this so called unreal come from and return to, in Taoism the chains of manifestation and return are delineated thus not dismissed, but are called the First born, the Two, the Three and onto the Ten thousand along with the saying close to the, "Tao goes far and returns"...(yet also standing still, which is almost word for word in meaning with a saying in the Upanishads)

ok, yet the "origin" and the "surface" are not separate but connected...thus in that case the question still remains how can an "unreal" be connected to the "real" and still be labeled or written off as only unreal? (like Prana is not disconnected from Brahman and is not called unreal in the Upanishads)

I did not compose the prayer but brought it up for any who want to ponder on its meanings... To me the context of the prayer is pointing to a shared or unitive reality, which is beyond the obvious differences among varied beings and forms at limited levels of their particular reality.

"I often think of us, in the physical, being 99.9999999999999% space, only .00000000000001% matter. I suppose that would be the ratio of the components of an atom to the whole of its outer perimeter. Essentially, we're ghosts. As I see it, there is no difference between Spirit and our physical self. My understanding is that our physical self is manifested from the Intelligence contained within the DNA, to the molecules, to the cells and that intelligence is the very same as the Life of Spirit. We are that Spirit experiencing a physical phase. My understanding, also, is that we're all the same Mind, seemingly separated by different conditionings. I think our Presence, our essence, will be the same whether we are in or out of body" By Manitou 1. I would use the term vehicles instead of the term "ghosts" with its connotation. 2. I would say the physical is and must be connected to the Spiritual to be alive as we know it, without that connection (silver cord) the physical returns or decays back to basic elements. Thus there is that difference between the two. 3. I like your description of the causative chains taking place for manifestation, (on a micro level that also applies to the macro level, or the entire cosmos beyond just the physical. Aka the first and purest Prana springing forth from Brahman. 4. I see "mind" as ultimately being one giant cosmic ball of mind stuff. We may say, "my mind" has this or that uniqueness and experience, yet our mind is still under "the mind" or part of said giant ball of mind stuff. 5. And along with that idea I believe we agree that our essence is part of "the essence", 6. An essence which "the mind" can not live without a connection to...just as the body can not live in its complexity without its connection with Sacred Prana.

some seem to think that following the teachings of sorcery (as often related by Castaneda) have merit or lead to spiritual growth, yet quite the opposite is the probable result from such teachings or other forms of them about sorcery. (which is like a rocket flying on the seductive powers of darkness! )

not sure of your meaning...but i'd say "normal" life and death are tied together at the hip, while the Life of Spirit knows no death.

what are you confused about Natural? (per that icon)

if we are strongly attached to an identity of ourselves that will pass in time and space then that passage will be painful, but if our identity is with our deeper Spirit Self which sees death itself die, then any form of demise is that of limited human identities and not of Spirit. I'd also say that Love/Law has both personal and impersonal aspects.

Hey Dude, my take is unlike that of some schools of Buddhism or of Hinduism. For instance I'd say there is no illusion only misperception or limited perception, as for freedom (or liberation) it is a fact of correct perception. Btw, my take is that there is no disconnect between "the One" in Daoism and "the ten thousand" or between Tao and the One, (aka first born) thus the only disconnect that exists is misperception or limited perception which does not see the connections.

a lot of folks would deny the external factors of planetary, solar and lunar influences on their individual and group lives, yet we could ask ourselves when and how much such influences may become controlling?

I'd say evolution per laws has patterns and devolution per breaking laws also has patterns, as we know live spelled ass backwards is evil.

one of my ideas about chaos is when locusts feed on anything and everything via destructive hordes...nothing romantic or profound sounding about that!

Btw, (and to back track a bit before they left the shore) no one had ever realized that Steve had a secret and 2nd occupation and talent and thus volunteered to tune up the outboard motor before they went across the lake. Dwai asked him if the motor could use some Ether to help get it started but Steve said, "no, Ether is invisible to an earthbound motor...

From The Prophet, in the "Religion chapter": "...And if you would be a knower of God be not therefore a solver of riddles. Rather look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children. And look into space; you shall see Him walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms in the lightning and descending in the rain. You shall see Him smiling in flowers, then rising and waving his hands in trees.

there are laws related to all the levels of being, breaking of those laws results in falling to a lower level of being (and its karma's to be worked out) - thus one would experience a loss of a previous level of freedom that went with the previous level of being. The other direction would be the opposite. Mountains away there is a point of no return or no falling back but before then I'd say we walk a razor's edge.

I'd say that's "hitting the nail on the head", as the saying goes and on a less profound note the purity of truth can see through the darkness of a lie, but said lie is blind to the purity of truth.

...and after expending much effort during their dangerous and snowy mountainous trek they came to and went through magical pass, suddenly the winter weather was gone and magical cat turned into a magical woman leading him further on to the stronghold. (and as one can see it was all he could do to keep up with her swift space!)

looks a little dangerous!

very high tech model and a very good RC pilot!

I'll take the historic Buddha for his word when said, "Wonder of wonders!" thus imo much of the convoluted sounding stuff that we may sometimes come across in Buddhism (or may make that way) is refuted by His own witness. "Paraphrasing Zen Priest Kobutsu Shindo, the first thing the Buddha said when he awakened was, “Wonder of wonders, all beings are truly enlightened.”

...and as the good cat was leading him on she also warned him saying, "keep the pace for there are yeti's up here we have to avoid!"

a list:

(the part about sucking on the carp that flew by was left out)

Well it I think it safe to say that most Hindu Satguru's and most well respected Buddhist Lama's don't get together and argue about this, One may hear a subtle aside now and then from either system...unless someone here has heard more than that?

and lets not forget that in some schools "God" or Brahman (if you will) is beyond any and all categories; with the categories mentioned above being the first of the most subtle of manifestation.