ReturnDragon

Based on what you know and what you don't know. Never mind! I will say no more.

Please read this post from another site carefully. Ref: http://discuss.yangfamilytaichi.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=650 Hi All, David, let me more or less endorse the previous posts, but make a contribution along slightly different lines for those with even less access to Chinese than I have. Basically, I want to delve a little bit into some of the layers of meaning that Louis mentioned. Most of what I cite below I have unearthed looking through dictionaries. While practitioners of Taijiquan usually talk about Qi as if it can only mean “vital energy,” this is by no means the only way it is used in Chinese. One can completely reject the basis of Chinese medicine and Taijiquan theory and still have lots of use for the word “Qi.” A major meaning in Chinese is still “vapor,” “gas,” or “air.” One common word for the air in a room is “kong-qi,” which literally means something like the “Qi of open space.” The expression “da-qi” can mean to “inflate” something, like a tire. It can be interpreted as “knocking air (into something).” There are multiple terms referring to naturally or artificially occurring “gas” that use the word “Qi,” such as “du-qi” (“poison gas”), “mei-qi” (“coal or natural gas”), and “qi-qiu” (a “balloon” or “gas ball”). From “air,” it is a short leap to the unseen things that appear to move or affect air. The ordinary word for weather is “tian-qi,” which could be interpreted either as the “air of heaven or of the sky” or as the “vital force of heaven or of the sky.” The modern word chosen to translate “electricity” (“dian-qi”) can be interpreted as the “vital force of lightning.” In addition to the uses of “Qi” to mean “air,” it also has other extended meanings that refer to ordinary phenomena. It is used in expressions that can be interpreted as “being out of breath (Qi).” To pant is “huan qi,” or to make one’s qi “pant.” “To blow a puff of air” is “chui yi kou qi” (“blow one mouth Qi”). It is also used in some expressions in the meaning of “scent,” such as “xiang-qi”, or the “Qi of perfume.” Again, these concrete meanings can easily merge into things that are more ethereal. “Wok Qi” is the flavor food has when it comes straight from the cooking pot. It dissipates once the food sits around for a while. Perhaps, “losing the flavor of the wok” might be the way to translate this. Another ordinary meaning of “Qi” that I can cite is when it is used to refer to the “air,” “manner,” or “aura” people are said to display in certain situations (e.g., “guan-qi,” or “bureaucratic airs”). In English, we might say that someone has a noble “air” about him or her, without necessarily trying to refer to any phenomena outside of Western science. A meaning that is probably related to this one is when “Qi” is used to refer to “spirits” or “morale.” (E.g., “Yang2 qi4” literally means to “have the Qi raised” and can be translated as “to be in high spirits.” “Qi is used in this latter sense in the Yang Style Saber Formula.) “Qi” can also refer to “anger,” presumably with associations similar to what “being steamed or steaming mad” has in English. Curiously, the Chinese word for “steam,” although pronounced identically to “Qi” and probably constituting the same spoken word, is written differently. The “rice” component in the character is replaced by an element that means “water.” As Louis mentioned in his earlier post, it is not always easy to disentangle all these layers of meaning. An “abdomen filled with Qi” might simply refer to “a stomach bloated with gas,” but probably implies that the flow of vital energy has also gone awry. A “Qi-filled abdomen” can also refer to a practitioner that has filled him or herself with good Qi through long practice. Again, I think that even in this meaning, a physical manifestation would be expected. We must also recall that the ancient Chinese had a different view of natural phenomena than we do and so would not have made the same linguistic distinctions we do. In other words, they may have seen the Qi in air, scents, breath, gas, etc. all as different aspects of the same basic thing. The adoption of modern scientific views would not necessarily change either this cultural outlook or the structure of the language. In a similar vein, I have knowledge of a culture that uses the word “medicine” indifferently to refer to “medications,” “pesticide,” “magical amulets,” and “poisons.” If one talks about “being in good spirits,” this does not mean that one necessarily believes in ghosts or the soul. Let me close with an expression I recently ran across in my losing effort to improve my Chinese: “Cheng1 yao1 da3 qi4.” This phrase could be crudely interpreted as “Prop up the waist and hit the vapor.” If the meaning of this phrase strikes you as opaque, you have a good excuse. I have deliberately chosen technically correct, but poor translations for each of these words to further illustrate why nuance can be important to meaning and true understanding. The phrase really translates loosely as “to bolster someone up.” I will explain it word my word, since each of the four words actually has relevance for Yang Style Taijiquan. “Cheng1” means “to prop up or support.” It is the word Yang Zhenduo uses to refer to the “propping” action of the front leg against the thrusting or treading action (“deng”) of the back leg as one shifts the weight forward into a Bow Stance. In the phrase under discussion, this word is probably best translated as “support.” “Yao1” is what we normally translate as “waist”; however, as I have posted previously, this word also applies to the region of the lower back. Here the image is of someone supporting another’s lower back to give postural strength. The root meaning of “Da3” is to strike. It is the word used to refer to the “open hand strikes” used in Single Whip, Brush Knee, etc. (“tui1 da3” or “push(ing) strike”). This word, however, is very often bleached of meaning and is used in a tremendous number of expressions as a dummy verb to refer to almost any manual activity, from gather firewood to buying cooking oil. In the expression “da Taijiquan,” I think it means something like “do Taijiquan,” or what some translate as “play Taijiquan.” The reason why many translate this word as “play” is apparently because “da” would have this translation when it is used to describe what one does with basketballs, tennis rackets, playing cards, etc. In Chinese, one does not “play” basketball, but rather “strikes basketball.” The word “qi” in the phrase under discussion could refer to “air.” In this case, the expression “da qi” would mean to “inflate,” as I mentioned above. The implication would that one is “re-inflating” someone who has become “deflated” in spirit. I believe this instance of “qi” could also refer to “vital energy,” in which case “da qi” could be interpreted as meaning “to give or restore vital energy.” The best interpretation, however, is probably to construe “qi” as referring to “spirits” or “morale,” with the other meanings providing background “color.” “Da qi” would then mean to “lift someone’s spirits.” With these clarifications, I could now translate “cheng1 yao1 da3 qi4” in a different, but still literal fashion as something like “support [someone’s] back and strike some spirit” into him or her. As for “qi chen dan tian” or “sink(ing) the Qi to the Dantian,” this is about the only overt “manipulation” of Qi that the Yangs talk about. I think that because of the influence of other styles of Taijiquan or of Qi Gong, some Yang Stylists become enamored of esoteric or sophisticated practices to “feel” or manipulate Qi. For Yang Style, I think this unnecessary, because we all have felt Qi to the extent necessary. When we slip and first feel our loss of balance, we feel our “heart” rise to our throat and our center of gravity rise. We have trouble breathing as our “breath” or “Qi” seems to feel caught or squeezed in our chest and throat. Our mind focuses on this point and leaves us feeling “tippy” or “top heavy” as we fear or sense an imminent fall. This, as I understand it, is what is meant by the expression “allowing the Qi to rise or to float.” “Sinking the Qi” is merely the opposite of this feeling. We feel for the stable connections that run through our bodies from our upper body to the earth, regardless of the arrangement of our limbs. We can attempt to do this even in the middle of losing our balance. As we lose our balance, we have three ways to react. We can ignore the reality of the situation and continue to pour energy into a configuration that is changing catastrophically. This is usually the worst thing to do. Nonetheless, it is usually the originally source of our problem. The earlier we identify that we are pouring energy into a bad situation and that our movements are not based on a correct view of reality, the more options we have to change. The second response is to panic as we perceive that reality is not to our liking. We go rigid. We allow our arms to flail around in a vain attempt to restore an equilibrium that is no longer obtainable in that manner. Time appears to freeze in an unfavorable configuration. The third response is to try to sharpen our feel for the situation as it is, to change what can be changed, and to let go of the rest. You do not grope for traction that cannot be recovered, but feel instead for the actual state of one’s connection with the ground and what power can still be threaded through the body. If you can still separate full from empty to even a small degree, you are not irretrievable stuck. Even limited traction can provide enough leverage to improve the position of our bodies. Even when no traction is available, the mass of our bodies can still be useful as a source of root to accomplish some movement. This is what a cat does to right itself in mid-air. Some styles of Taijiquan and some other martial arts do teach strong manipulation of “Qi.” Such practices may be beneficial with the proper teaching and training, but I do not believe they are integral to traditional Yang Style for two reasons. The Yangs often state that their style is richly detailed, but nonetheless essentially simple. In seminars, they have often distinguished aspects of their practice from other those of other arts on the grounds that Yang Style keeps things simple and straightforward. Complicated breathing patterns or visualizations are thus contrary to the flavor of the form they cultivate. Another reason why focusing on Qi is discouraged is because the idea in Yang Style is to allow Qi to flow naturally, not to control it arbitrarily. Just as one does not train to control the rate of one’s pulse, one does not train to control one’s Qi flow. The body knows what to do by itself. You merely need to train to get out of its way. As long as you use your mind correctly, the Qi will take care of itself. Take care, Audi

Good! In that case, like you said, you just practice the one which is involved with the distinct breathing pattern to follow. The other ones are wasting your time. It makes no difference like that you were just doing some regular exercise. As a rule of thumb, practice all your styles with the deep breathing pattern. Even you weren't told by your teacher. If anyone tells you martial arts have nothing to do with deep breathing, then stay away from them. They are teaching you right.

Well, I am sure one will work for you since you had learned so many. You will never know which one is for you then. So, how much money did you pay for all that? I hope you can tell the difference and discard the bad ones.

There are too many so called teacher, in the west, did not learn it correctly and start teaching. There is, one only one, Ba Duan Jin(八段錦) with distinct breathing pattern to follow. Someone just tagged "Return Spring" in front of the original name doesn't mean it is a different style.

Yes, 氣功(Qi Kung) 在這裡氣功的氣(qi)是呼吸(breathing)的意思。 功(kung)是功能 氣功(Chi Kung) 是呼吸的功能。

Baduanjin is Baduanjin. How many are there? Which one doesn't?

Yes, it is, virtue is correct.

Yes, it is because it does emphasize on breathing.

huh........?

Who said it did?

Sorry, I peeked in my ignored list sometimes.

If you think you know better, I will listen to you.

If you were doing Chi Kung, then the other one is just a regular exercise. The former is preserving energy and the latter is consuming energy. There must a be a difference. It cannot be both. Yes, it is got to be one or the other.

I really heard nothing was said. You had posted something that was not new to me. They are all esoteric and passed down from history still mysterious. Guess? Your guess is as good as mine.

Lao Tze said: Please don't interfere with nature. Chunag Tze: Please don't let nature interfere with me.

Did your chi kung teacher lie to you and strike by lightning?

Please have confidence in yourself. I have the same problem since I was a teenager. I started to practice Tai Chi since I was 25 to correct the shortness of breath. I couldn't complete a sentence with one breath just like you. Since it worked for me and why not work for you. It is just a matter of patience and self discipline. Good luck.

The Taoist exorcist was known to have super vision to see both worlds. The eyes of the exorcist are known as yin-yang eyes. The world of the deceased is yin. The world of human is yang. Only the Taoist exorcist can see what is going on both sides. The Taoist exorcist can tell by a person with the pale color of the skin or black spots in certain area on the face. Sometime a person might be acting strange. PS I am a theist. All the mentioned is only what I heard and see from fictional stories and movies. My input here is strictly for entertainment.

Salaam123 The reason your energy level is so low is because, in modern term, your body is lack of oxygen(hypoxia). Actually, the Taoist term original chi(yuan chi) is the stored oxygen in the body. If it ran out, then the energy level will be low in the body. You must pay back the oxygen debt by correcting the breathing problem.

OK, you are having some troubles talking to your friend is because you were short of breath. You need to practice the qigong deep breathing method to be breathing normal again. It is the only way to correct your breathing problem. However, it cannot be done in one day. You must practice and practice whenever you can for now. To answer your question about the diaphragm. The air does not store in the diaphragm but only in your lung. What happened was that when to diaphragm goes downward, the volume of the lung increases to allow more air to be stored.

The diaphragm is the least thing that you have to be worried about. It is because when you inhale, your abdomen will expand and the diaphragm will go downward(concaved). When exhale the abdomen will contract and the diaphragm will go upward(convexed). In other words, the diaphragm will go up and down automatically during deep breathing.

Hi, Starjumper What chi kung did you practice today? It would be helpful if you can tell me how did you practice with as much detail as possible. Thank you!

Qigong is the major breathing exercise for a Taoist. We can say that all the health benefits are tied into the the practice of qigong by the ancient Chinese Taoist(not Taoism) . I mean anything you name it. I can tell you. Taoist believe in alchemy and Qigong is a must to be performed for the accomplishment. Meditation is the term that the Chinese Taoist do not use. The term "zazen(打坐)" is more like it to be used as one sits in a semi/full lotus position to perform abdominal breathing.

The Confucianism was too idealistic and impractical. Thus no emperor had ever adopted his philosophy. Only the scholars and people with morality had accepted him as a great philosophy. However, Lao Tze's philosophy was adopted by one of the emperors in the Han Dynasty to rule the people for a while.