Mithras

I is actually more of a collection of clingings, which can be very subtle. Clinging to flaws, clinging to virtues, and clinging to various activities. I recently actually had a dream that involved clinging to love. In which it was revealed that an unhealthy relationship/love seems to involve ownership. However, I think division is the worst kind of clinging. Besides the story, the 2nd paragraph reveals how deeply these clinging can subtly stand. Concepts like I, etc are not natural. They are gained and only seem natural due to constant reinforcement. What is natural is beyond the tides of what has been gained and lost.

Nice one I like, mellow: A bit higher energy, and dunno if I already posted this one, but it's a favorite of mine:

Have you guys ever tried slightly fermented oranges? You just make a hole or two and leave it for a few days. Come back and it has an interesting flavor + it’s probably good for your stomach bacteria. Otherwise what the heck is that towel thing?

Many thanks for this wonderful place, that has allowed me meet many wonderful individuals and further my practice. I am indebted towards you all.

I personally gained the most off of contemplation and inquiry rather than meditation. Reading Texts and understanding them was basically the bread and butter. Practical application came next. Though I think there’s still a point where mindfulness/meditation comes hand in hand with that, because pure contemplation can spiral. My own experience is that contemplation was definitely worthwhile for me to start with. It’s just now that I’m really getting into mindfulness, and because the contemplation beforehand it seems to be going really quickly + the ability to choose what “present” you unwrap is nice

This is a good post. Though I find myself agreeing with freeform about psychological importance. Otherwise, all I can say is reliance on the physical creates results that remain very much in the physical. Though that's also coming from someone who believes that rules and tradition are not the way.

Nicely put Steve. IMO any knowledge, whether dzogchen, materialist science, or some other ideology is not evil, harmful, or limiting at all. The person themselves is at the core of the experience(whether they know it or not) and gravitate towards what fits them. So I think that it’d be rare for worries of conflicting knowledge harming someone to actually be true. Though it can be hurtful at times when others preach conflicting information at you when you’re starting. Like it’s already such a big jump and commitment for most when they start, and when others aren’t only not supporting you but instead are trying to even bring you down... eek it’s hard(speaking from personal experience). I guess that’s why a lot of these ideologies can be a bit defensive, because there’s a lot of preachers in this day and age who want to speak their nonsense to people who don’t want to listen. Also probably why “good company” is seen as a major aspect of some practices.

What both of you guys have said is definitely true. There does seem to be this cycle of exclusion. Even comparing the various hindu faiths we see this paradigm where certain faiths say this is the way to achieve enlightenment/spiritual advancement and other ways are mediocre at best. And it is most likely true that the way these preachers preach is a way, but the mistake is to believe that it is the only way. It reminds me of a poem, written by Lu Zhishen ( fictional character from the water margin): In my life I never cultivated goodness, 平生不修善果， Relishing only murder and arson. 只愛殺人放火。 Suddenly my golden shackles have been opened; 忽地頓開金枷， Here my jade locks have been pulled asunder. 這裡指斷玉鎖。 Alas! Hereby the river tide cometh, 咦！錢塘江上潮信來， Now I finally realise that I am what I am! 今日方知我是我。 The poem itself speaks for the character. He was basically a bad monk, who even took to banditry at some point. Yet good and evil, does not change what one is. I like the poem because it reminds me of how there is no way. So better to not worry about things like Jing, karma, yin-yang, and instead focus on your self

I've heard lingo of significant happening on December 21st. It's been described to me as something as similar to the whole 2012 shenanigans. Has anyone else heard anything about this, or have something to share?

Somewhat unrelated opinion below:

I always felt that yin yang was more so a representation of non duality and so it can represent quite a bit. For me it tends to show how duality doesn’t actually contradict but instead shows the nondual/equanimity. Complex allows simple to be, everything allows nothing to be, good allows bad to be, vice versa. And while, yin and yang contradict each other separately, they are in truth never separate and are instead necessary for the other arise, creating balance. As for the motions in which yin and yang revolve, the illusion of change is given but in truth yin and yang are balanced at all times. However, that idea in itself seems to be disputed among various practices. Daoism, from what I recall, tends to believe in returning balance to yin and yang through practice. At least that’s part of it, but I could be wrong. Please do tell. Otherwise, practices like zen tend to believe that all things are already balanced, and thus abstain from the effort of trying to balance yin and yang. Though this tends to involve some effort towards not only realizing this but letting go of ones perspective that suggests otherwise. Whether one sounds cooler or not, both tend to be difficult paths. Hence the knowledge not really being hidden but just genuinely difficult, which is a bit different from the congruency of material sciences. Otherwise, what I find most interesting lately is the spreading of knowledge in the west. Most notably stuff like law of attraction and so on, which deals with how the perceiver and perceived aren’t independent. But it tends to ditch all mental development and goes straight to feeding the egos desires. However, there’s still big potential for people to become spiritually advanced through it. As far as Its spread, well it’s even popularized on stuff like TikTok. But the general message has also significantly degraded with many off branches going into wierd rules and removing the actual substance. Now it’s more of a new age thing, with more of the negative connotations than positive. I can only expect a lot of people get mislead or caught into something they aren’t ready for. But eh live and learn I guess. Otherwise, this is a really good reference though as to why knowledge might be “hidden”, because it’s an example of typically “classified” information being popularized/publicized.

Huh I actually ended up reading somewhere that Amun was a particularly effective mantra for opening the third eye.

Shoot, my older brother talked about this all the time. I personally think it’s one of those things that tries to explain something that shouldn’t be explained. It’s like one of us has to be the Dunning Kruger(wrong) with that effect, and I just don’t think that’s true. No ones an idiot in my opinion and so they have perfectly valid reasons to see things through their perspective. Otherwise, regardless of what I’m saying, the chart is mostly true I feel. I have personally experienced the “Oh this is very easy” when working on stuff like binary wiring for a computer systems class. Then on comes the more difficult assignments and it ramps into hell and beyond. Then my ego deflates a bit, but as I work a bit more I feel at least alright. It’s just that I feel this particular cycle doesn’t seem to fit for things that I actually learn, like the personal stuff/journeys. with scriptures it was very complex and confusing for me at the start, just so different from the usual mindset. Over time as I read it again and again it becomes very simple and like second nature. Then new issues arise which give it a whole new complex perspective. Till it settles down again. Repeat again and again, till it gets a bit sublime and I find myself discarding both the simplicity and the complexity. so maybe the complexity process is different between topics? (Material sciences/well developed systems vs spiritual/personal journeys)

I think the trend of mastery tends to go from complex to simple. Then simple to complex, and complex to simple again. There comes a point I believe, where all trends of mastery go towards the simplest, which is indescribable Tao. That’s just my cup of tea though. Otherwise I agree with what Gerard said. Adding onto that, I think it’s often the person which decides how much they grow and not actually a system. Bad systems do exist, but good people either won’t interact with them naturally or outgrow them easily. Furthermore I think it’s a bit obtuse to explain mastery as something as simple as put in so many years, and listen to your master. This was kind of the attitude I was getting from this thread. Yes it works for some but it’s not for everyone. As true growth has nothing to do with circumstances but instead ones heart. So no one should feel ashamed if it doesn’t feel right for them or if they want to explore. Everyone has a respective path for themselves, which only they can illuminate. One can find good karma with a master or system, but nothing more. In this matter, things like mastery/tao are an extremely personal endeavor that have actually very little to do with outside influences(master, circumstances, system, etc). Sadly, the personal aspect is what most westerners or unadvanced practitioners tend to ignore.

I like what Paradoxal said about softening the mind. What I personally think is important when softening the mind, is letting loose of distinctions and biases a bit. As for Paradoxal's ritual, it's a nice one, and it's success rate is more correlated to one's personal belief in their ability/perspective. A good perspective is realizing that one is the creator and becoming more familiar with the idea through practice or personal experiences. As the idea becomes more cemented, success rates increase. On the contrary, a perspective of one's insignificance and comparisons like this is a god and I am a human, akin to an ant, often stagnate with very little growth. Thus, I can only say that trust in structure and distinctions perpetuates mundanity, while letting go of distinction leads to a more fantastic perspective. So if you want evidence for the supernatural, just let go a little. Meditations a good way to do this, but there's other ways to like practicing rituals or even becoming more laid back. Drifting into where fantastic and mundane are of equal distinction, is a good sign.

At the same time though... no ones really an idiot even if others or they themselves claim they are as they have reasons to do/believe what they do. I can only imagine a figure like Jesus was more so understanding of this, and thus wasn’t hateful those who condemned him. “Take perspectives out of it altogether. Focus on the structure - i.e. how incredibly different the news feeds are. Tell them you're watching Fox a little. Invite them to do the same with CNN or MSNBC. The truth certainly must lie between the two.” Had a hard time quoting this on my phone @manitou I guess what we want then is for people to be more open minded? To be less attached to their sources of information and allow themselves to flow more freely in their experience. Sounds a bit like something that could be visualized through a tai chi excercise hehe. I don’t want to hijack this thread so I’ll mention this briefly: Even so, I wonder which side is right or wrong. Considering a child being taught 1+1=2 and they instead believe it’s 1. When the child is taught the “correct” way, it seems that knowledge is not actually being acquired, instead one is simply changing their perspective. But I guess this is a good example, because in functional terms 1+1 does not equal 1. Though maybe there’s a reality where 1+1 equals 1 is the functional basis for understanding physical phenomena. And maybe functional phenomena isn’t important in the first place. Oh well Otherwise I’m gonna contemplate this line: “knowledge is not actually being acquired, instead one is simply changing their perspective”. It seems to give off strong allure for me. Cheers

I’m not exactly Buddhist so sorry for intruding. This seems a bit oddly worded/confusing for me so I’ll have to make some assumptions as to what you’re asking: Nothing actually has it’s own attributes, as the core of a tree isn’t actually hard nor is a hand soft. These things are all decided by a perspective, which also seems to change. Then knowing all these things to be changing, where do all these attributes come from? I reiterate that a tree that is hard for a hobbyist may be soft like butter for a lumber jack. There is no inherent hardness in a tree, nor actually a shared attribute though it seems to be shared. This is a good source of contemplation, though you may enjoy other angles. I wrote somewhere about it though on my personal discussion “On the self” if you’re interested. Otherwise, I remember this particular question in the Diamond Sutra where Sakyamuni Buddha is describing the nature of sound. When sound is there one moment and gone the next, where is the sound? Was it ever there in the first place? What is the nature of memory which retains that sound, which is now gone? If sound can be there one moment and not the next, was it ever there in the first place? Etc. Generally, It’s a bit of an odd chain of questions but the topic is effectively the same as you brought up and I tried to address above. If you’re interested further I’d check out Diamond Sutra, where it is addressed.

Yeahhh different news, different world. I’d say the best remedy is to just not use the TV or news. So many modern platforms are both just throwing sparks and encourage strong division. Fox News, CNN, or any other big platform really... They’ve seemingly made a sports show out of social issues and politics, both liberal and conservative. And it makes sense as to why: News is a business at the end of the day, and they thrive by keeping people glued to a screen even if that much doesn’t really happen. People who say it’s good to be informed could really just stay informed by hearsay or by looking at news once a week. The important news tends to come into our little bubbles, so some article talking about it doesn’t do much. I myself don’t read the news at all but I still know about corona and all the cases and stuff. Similarly I know about election stuff, new movies, and local events like riots. I really don’t see what I’m missing. Convincing old folks and young alike to just spend more time away from news and their opinions would be better. I think after some time away from news or even being in the proximity of someone who doesn’t care too much, they tend to calm down. Though idk this isn’t really the orthodox answer. I just think it would be impossible to convince someone to switch news channels or at least use two. It’s such a charged topic where a news network is equivalent to the foundation of ones personal belief, so saying anything about the network is the same as insulting that person. Similarly, I think everyone in general is just really tired of being convinced all the time. Yet young and old people keep coming at each others throats for it. So there’s like a built in defensive reflex to defend ones beliefs, and that’s fine because it’s deeply personal. I’m saying this from the perspective of one who lives in a house with someone who’s incredibly religious and another who’s incredibly scientific. They’re like matches for each other constantly trying to set the other aflame, and being in the middle of that is a bit tiring. They get even more tired out by it though, and they end up sinking into a idiocy/ignorance which they so strongly deny being in. Like there’s nothing good that can come out of convincing others, as all growth happens internally and with time. Instead, this debate culture just stamps out possible growth because people become so attached to their old ideas, just to defend them from “predators”. We can’t really blame anyone for believing what they do not even say it’s wrong. Everyone has their own subjective experiences which state this is true and this is false, etc. Even an “insane” person follows this regard, let alone a populist, scientist, or priest. Personally, this was something big for me because learning to stop caring so much about my beliefs was such a burden off my chest. What I thought to be such a big cornerstone for me was just hindering me as I’d stick by ideas when other people battered them. Now I just let them batter whatever they want and say “uh huh”. Because it really doesn’t matter much.

I'm not really sure but I get the vibe that Taoism is more of a transformation rather than a removal of the ego sense. Could be completely wrong though.

Hehe wuxia books piqued my interest too. Think there's quite a few others who have read them on this forum too, @SongShuhang being one for sure (name of the main character from cultivation chat group)

Maybe it has to do with a reliance on saturation for a lot of practitioners? I myself relied on this a lot and I know a lot of other practices do too. Anyways, there tends to be that idea that once you figure out the main spiritual stuff then you can fix stuff that’s closer to you. Which can be nice but it makes the whole process into bit of a speed run to awakening. Not always fun and I can definitely say I had to (and still have to) do a lot of repairs afterwards.

That is unfortunate. I hope meditation isn’t painful or awkward for you now. Ive had a similar situation happen for me where the idea of preserving jing really stuck on for me, even when I moved away from energy cultivation. It created a really negative bias around me and made me generally gloomy. Till after much repetition and waiting it’s whittled away. Now don’t get me wrong, energy work is great, but rules aren’t for everyone and I think all the rules and scriptures can actually add on baggage from time to time. So I personally emphasize that Its important to listen to our hearts and follow what we want/find ourselves drifting towards.

I agree with riversnake on the button smashing thing. It isn’t always the best to force meditation, as forcing change often gives the wrong kind of change. Better to take it slowly and let the solutions come out. Taking this approach, more often than not, actually speeds things up.

I think the only way stuff is usually bs and perhaps the sign of Buddhism degrading as it becomes a popularized faith. The general story of self realization has to do with the self, the person. Not with some sutra or some philosophy; nor does some sutra or philosophy unlock the self. It can help but it’s not needed at all.