Daniel

Your loss

Sure. Cool. If I'm wrong, I'm happy to be corrected.

What is my "aim", Nungali? To start a book club, more or less. It'll be fun. Everyone's invited.

Speaking for myself, in my judgement, hurt and harm are material events which occur in the physical universe. Souls and spirits are not hurt and harmed. Your loved one is certainly ok.

To be consistent with the story, all of these beings are creations of God. Asking about the nature of God, imo, would not make a good story. If it's simply stated, it sounds silly. If it's complete, the story will go on forever.

That hasn't been my experience. Certainly. However, I have heard a lot of these allegations before. I had already watched the Yonaton Adler interview, which is why I knew immediately where to go with in the interview to show the faults in Nungali's assumptions regarding when the Torah was composed. If Nungali was open, in the manner you describe, then, he would be admitting he's wrong, and adjusting his point of view due to receiving new information. The simple truth is, it's uncertain when and under what circumstances the Torah was composed. But the archeological evidence can be used to support either conclusion. It's more likely the Egyptians were influenced because they changed their theology dramatically after the immigrants arrived.

Also. Important. His motive is to promote Egyptian religion and mythology, among others, which, he has decided, have been treated unfairly, not given credit. Not appreciated , perhaps, as they should be? In this way, the altruistic motives provide cover for the others: the desire to validate their negative judgements, prejudices, past negative interactions and experiences which left their impression... Etc.

I am guessing that it is an attempt to validate some negative judgements about Jewish people personally and politically. And me. He wants to discredit me in particular, because I correct his posts.

One of the problems with Assyrian and akkadian comparisons is that the Ugarite library was translated using the Bible as a sort of Rosetta stone. Because of this, the English translations are, naturally, going to share similar phrasing and rhythm in their translations which do not actually exist in the original languages. I'll try to find info on it.

1) No one will want to read your writing if you're not fact checking it, first, before posting it. It's obvious that you're just copying and pasting. But the quantity is not persuasive. 2) The logic is faulty. It's circular. There's so much evidence, because details are ignored, because there's so much evidence, because details are ignored, because there's so much evidence, because details are ignored.... The reason there are so many examples, is because the significance of each example is weak, but that weakness is not examined and the significance is on quantity of examples, rather than strong convincing examples. ( Bible critics hate examining details. They often rush to the next example as soon as possible to avoid the fact that each example is insignificant to the grand conspiracy they're proposing ). This is why it's important to look for the best examples and analyze them critically. If those best examples turn out to be insignificant after rational inquiry, then the entire theory is weak. Smoke is not always fire. Sometimes it's a cloud. The further the distance, the easier it is to make the mistake, and, this is very distant history. 3) it's clear you are already convinced so completely that you are correct that it's highly unlikely you'll fairly filter, moderate, and fact-check. The bar for your belief is very low for anything which agrees with you and impossiblly high for anything which challenges you.

This is how I feel: Certainty compromises wonder and sabotages faith. God, if it exists, and I'm confident it does, requires wonder and faith for the strongest possible communion and relationship. When exploring science and math, I am often filled with a sense of awe and wonder. I think this is by design. The creator designed all of this in a way which is awe inspiring and wonderful. Also. When learning Torah in Hebrew, I am filled with a sense of awe and wonder. I think this is intentional. When observing newly-weds, perhaps a few days after the wedding, I am filled with awe and wonder. I think this is intentional. You mentioned the virgin birth in one of your prior posts. If it's true, it's certainly cause for awe and wonder. It's the same for the resurrection. It's the same for Jesus' miracles. It's the same for the entire earthly ministry. It's the same for the entire gospel, and everything that happened after. All of it, and everything, the great and small, fill me with awe and wonder. I think that's intentional. God desires my wonder. That is how I feel. If there is a God, it seems to be encouraging a sense of awe and wonder because, this awe and wonder, curiosity, are a portal, a gate, to communion and relationship with the divine ( that which is beyond the material ). Many are inspired by the Hebrew alphabet, but, it is just one of many ways to cultivate the necessary, child-like, awe and wonder to connect beyond the material. That is why there are so many who are connected all over the world in diverse cultures and geography.

There is another plausible explanation which is brought by materialists and agnostics. At it's root, it's argued: if the physical universe ( including time ) is infinite, and always increasing / expanding, then, the material world as we know it, including all of the miracles and mysteries of life become inevitable. Sooner or later, what you're describing as a "haphazard process" ( which would perhaps instead be described as "a random set of highly unlikely events occurring in precisely right way, time, and place" ) would absolutely produce the perfect-storm scenario which would randomly and unintentionally produce the universe and everything in it. Here is a more detailed explanation:

I do not study that. But I am familiar with it. Yes, as far as I know, it's true. There are many examples. Hmmmmmm. From the human perspective, offering a human answer? Absolutely, 100% yes. From the academic perspective ..... There's a problem. I vote no. Space and time are material qualities which include opportunities for random chaos. It wouldn't be haphazard, but, I would not underestimate human-innovation and human-capability-to-create such that a team of talented individuals would not be able create a language system like biblical Hebrew. Something I've noticed when learning about the perceived miraculous qualities of the Hebrew language is that the method used by some to produce the bible-math to prove it are contrived. This is natural, because, the human mind ( not an infinite mind ) is developing the system which is producing the bible-math-proof. I'll give an example. There is a rule that some follow. If there are two words which are known to be related energetically, and the gematria does not balance between them, some add 1 to either side of the equation in order to balance it. The rationale that's given for adding 1? It's supposed to be "adding God", "the one-God", to the bible-math equation. But. Since 1 is not added consistently; it is only added when needed to force the bible-math proofs to balance properly, the bible-math proofs become a little silly. The rule I was taught, regarding gematria, bible-math, is that it cannot be used to innovate. It can only be used to support previously accepted doctrine. The reason is clear. The creative human mind can and does fool itself to reinforce its own expectations, desires, and aversions in the form of self-fulfilling prophecies and curses. Math is not excluded from this. But, this does not in any way diminish the awe and wonder that is produced in my mind-and-heart when working with the Hebrew language. As I mentioned previously, I have been told that there are other languages which also connect spirit-to-spirit. And I believe it's true. Tamil for instance. Fascinating. Yes. I think so. 100%. It's a very long discussion, but, to put it simply.... Evolution. Structural evolution. I'll explain.

The best correspondences are in sequence and in close proximity. The close parallel lines. Analyzing these will give the absolute limit of the significance of any correspondence between the two. That's what I'll do next.

This is not a side-by-side comparison. Assuming these are accurate and significant correspondences, they do not line up one to one, in order so neatly. Below is an actual side by side comparison. The Hymn of Aten is on the left. Psalm 104 is on the right. The arrows link The hymn with the Psalm as each passage exists in the full translated text.

In order to compare these, it's best to read both in their entirety, then locate the corresponding verses and compare them side by side. The Hymn to Aten is the Miriam Lichtheim translation from Ancient Egyptian Literature: Volume II: The New Kingdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miriam_Lichtheim Psalm 104 is the NRSV translation. Here is the entire Hymn of Aten and Psalm 104 for those who want to read the entire thing. I've bolded the passages which were indicated as corresponding with each other. The Hymn of Aten is below: Psalm 104 is below: Now they can be analyzed, compared, and contrasted, side by side.

Ok This is the first line on page 1. The subject of this thread is a historical political takeover. Politics. This assumes that you know what is actually claimed. If you don't, it's likely a straw-man. This assumes that you have adequate understanding of Jewish theology. If you don't, you're not discussing Judaism. Straw-man. You are accusing Jewish people of cultural appropriation. ... Massaged ... That's a sinister word choice. ... Twist ... Another sinister word choice. OK. The tone has been set. This thread is about attacking Jews and Judaism as the product of an intentional sinister conspiracy to defraud and disenfranchise. Got it.

Annotation. You have refused to answer my questions. Now you are complaining because I didn't answer yours. The labels identify who is who in the inscription. I doubt other readers will be bothered by them. No one is going to mistake those annotations as original to the inscription. That is all the explanation you will be getting from me. If you feel it is somehow dishonest, there is nothing I can do to change your mind about it. Each reader can decide for themself.

... I'm trying. It takes time.

Good. There is archeological evidence that some of these are likely early Jewish immigrants who were nomadic people of the region who believed in YHVH. This archeological evidence is dated 1900bce. It's from a tomb in Egypt. It's archeological evidence showing the shasu ( who are likely the early jews ) entering Egypt. It's dated over 500 years prior to the composition of the Hymn of Aten. You brought an academic source comparing the Hymn of Aten with Psalm 104. You assume the direction of influence is from The Hymn of Aten to Psalm 104. But if the early jewish people arrived before the composition of the Hymn of Aten, then, the direction of influence is backwards.

It needs a date range. You're being vague. It's the beginning of the immigration of the early jewish people into Egypt. It's archeological evidence of the beginning of the Exodus story which is the beginning of the story of Judaism as it emerged from Egypt. The "empire" if that's an accurate word, and the 'kingdom of David" come much later. The period we are discussing is Egypt 12th dynasty. I have not claimed there is a Jewish empire at that time. I know of no one who claims there is "empire" at that time.

~shrugs~ You're ignoring the evidence I brought which supports my position. I'm not having it both ways. There would have been a record of the slaughter, because there are records of other slaughters like it. No problem. No more questions. Please continue preaching to whomever wants to listen.

Good. We also agree on this late date. 1353 BCE, at the earliest, is after the Shasu immigration recorded in an Egyptian tomb. The Aten theology was new. It makes sense that it came from immigrants, not from Egypt. The new theology tried to portray itself as a reformation of old beliefs, but, it didn't last.

The Great Hymn to Aten is 18th dynasty, 1300 bce. The reign of Aten was a dramatic shift away from Egyptian polytheism. This hymn is dated after the Shasu are recorded entering Egypt. The sequence of events is: The Shasu ( early Jews ) enter Egypt, then, Egypt dramatically shifts its religious practices towards what appears to be a version of monotheism. At the very least, because of the late dating, the direction of influence cannot be assumed Hymn to Aten >>> Psalm 104. It could be that the immigration of Shasu influenced Egypt in the other direction. That explains the extreme shift in their religion at that time. Do you have another plausible explanation for the dramatic shift? Here is a source for the above: ------------------------------------------------------ The Hymn to the Aten In the reign of Amun-hotpe IV-Akhenaten of Dynasty 18 the royal family espoused the worship of the sun disk, the Aten, and neglected the older state and local gods, particularly Amun-Re. The king changed his name from Amun-hotpe (Amun is pleased) to Akhenaten (the effective spirit of the Aten), and he constructed a new residence city at Amarna called Akhet-Aten, the Horizon of the Aten, marked out by royal boundary stelae and filled with temples, palaces, villas for the nobles, workshops for the artisans, and housing for the laborers. Throughout Egypt the names of the old gods were systematicaly hacked out whenever they appeared in public inscriptions on temple walls and elsewhere. The movement was viewed as a reformation, a return to the royal sun-cult of the pyramid builders. It was later regarded as a heresy and did not survive the king's reign. Akhenaten emphasized the international supremacy of the sun disk and his relation to it as a son. In effect, he interposed himself between the Aten and the people, with his worship directed to the Aten and the people's attention focused upon him as the son and interpreter of the Aten. Whether the system can be considered monotheism is debatable. The broad outlook represented in these texts is a development of earlier Egyptian thought with new elements. Noteworthy is the almost anthropologi- cal view of the races of mankind differentiated in color and language. There are close parallels in wording, thought, and sequence of ideas to the verses of Psalm 104. The text is presented in hieroglyphic in N. de G. Davies, The Rock Tombs of el Amarna (London: Archaeological Survey of Egypt, 1908), Pt. 6, pl. 27; this version derives from the tomb of Eye. For a lucid and interpretive account of the king's reign and times, consult Cyril Aldred, Akhenaten, Pharaoh of Egypt, a New Study (London: Thames and Hudson, 1968). W. K. S. William Kelly Simpson (January 3, 1928 – March 24, 2017) American professor of Egyptology, Archaeology, Ancient Egyptian literature, and Afro-Asiatic Yale University https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kelly_Simpson

1900bce. 12th dynasty official Khnumhotep II under pharaoh Senusret II at Beni Hasan. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ibscha.jpg