Daniel

Nungali, if you are confused, it's probably because you're not reading the text in its original language.

Nungali, if you've tested this enochian language, and you say that it works, please demonstrate. Otherwise, what is the point in bringing it up?

True, to an extent. There's nothing inherently magical about the language used for the true name. It's a practical matter. The ritual is built from layers of simultaneous symmetrical significance. The true name in their original language is usually compact and concentrated so that it can be articulated quickly with minimal vocalization. This permits the necessary simultaneity. If the name is constructed from a different language, it will probably take many more spoken words to bring forward the same divinity. Speaking the words out-loud is a very important part of the ritual. I can think in my mind, and contemplate a demon whom I have labeled "Blame". That one word: "Blame" is very easy to say. But the contemplation that is happening in the mind is so much richer and more detailed than simply saying this word out-loud. Because of this, if this particular "demon" ( thought-form ) rises up in my own heart-and-mind, I can easily banish it. I name it: "Blame" and I cast it out. "Begone." It's that simple. But that only works internally. If I want to do something much grander than that, I need a lot more than the word: "Blame". Even-though the word "Blame" captures that demon for me, it's still completely isolated in my own physical psyche.

Agreed. Without the ritual it is an inward practice limited to the physical body. The communion is with the divinity which exists in the physical mind-and-heart often referred to as the subconscious.

It was an angel, but, the divine names aren't secrets. At least, not anymore.

Correct. The observer effect interferes with the test.

So, it works because it's better than nothing? That's not a very strong endorsement. Is that what you meant by claiming you'd tested it yourself and it worked?

You tested it yourself and it works? Are you saying that you communicated with angels, demons, gods, etc, with the enochian language? Are you able to demonstrate this?

Does it work? Have you tried it?

"The use of ..." Yes. Excellent choice of words. The true name is used, not merely uttered. When it is articulated, properly, using its true name, the divinity can be summoned depending on the circumstances. Proper articulation becomes a ritual when mind-and-heart comprehension of each syllable is layered onto the name as it is being spoken, out-loud, while the caster is in a ... ... mystical trance, for lack of better words.

I use the Jewish Kabalistic cosmology to understand the phenomena. But I could be completely wrong. I welcome corrections on this. Here and now, the material world of material things, of events which flow in a sequence on a time-line, where no two things can occupy the same space at the same time, is shaped like a sphere. Just beyond that sphere is another sphere which is a border between here-and-now, the material world, and other realms. Once an individual is able to reliably traverse this border through their own will, they will have achieved something truly great. This achievement is what has been referred to as "ungrund" but I would call it "liberation". Just beyond the border, the "abyss", is a realm of a specific type of "angel". Borrowing from religious jargon, these angels are the "Beasts of the Field". They are conceptualized, in nearly infinite shapes and sizes, some of the most memorable are exact replicas of the Egyptian Gods. In Jewish mysticism the Egyptian Gods are among the angels of "Yetzirah", the realm of "forming". However, the angels do not have a will of their own. They are puppets, more-or-less. This realm includes all the possible permutations, transmutations of divinity which are taking form in an orderly manner here-and-now in the material realm. That's why you'll find a human form with an animal head in the realm of Yetzirah. There will also be beasts with many many eyes and a human form with blue skin and more than 2 arms in Yetzirah. There are shape shifters there. Fluid genders and fliud sexuality originate there as transmutations and permutations of the divine as well. All of these are what you are referring to as "Gods of the older religions". But it is not limited to these typical and memorable forms of divinity which ancient cultures called "Gods". That's the summary of my understanding of the concepts: Here-and-Now >>> Abyss >>> Ungrund >>> communion with Ancient Gods. In my culture we use different words for these concepts: Assiyah >>> K'lipah >>> Yetzirah >>> Chayyot. Now. Here's the important parts. ( For those that already know this and know it well, please forgive me for stating what is obvious to you. ) 1) These other realms? They're not physically beyond here-and-now. No. The "abyss" is not a physical destination, just as "heaven" in this context is not a physical destination either. It is not physically distant, it is beyond the physical in awareness. It is beyond the physical limitations of time and space. For example: An angel, lacking lips, and a human face, can speak from a bird's beak, in a realm which has no physical limitations. An individual here-and-now, in the material realm can listen and respond, to the magical talking human with a bird's head ( Ra ) once the individual fully realizes that the "heavens" are not physically distant, and they have "unlocked" their mind and heart in such a way that they are able to co-exist in the two realms without completely going insane. 2) The human mind-and-heart, as a pair, when they are operating cooperatively and in harmony with each other, are a microcosm of all of reality. Because of this, life itself, living as a human being, with all of the inherent trials and triumphs, passions and disappointments, which accompany each individual human life, is an opportunity to journey beyond the material realm and encounter the divine in its many forms. But. It's a choice. The immaterial journeying is limited only by the individual's motivations, enthusiasm, pain tolerance, imagination, and time. ( excluding those who mentally/physically ill, of course ). An individual can probe within their own heart-and-mind and have a realization about themself which will correspond to other individuals outside of themself. These realizations are often described as synchronicity. Sidebar: I would be remiss not to mention, that random chaotic coincidences are often confused for synchronicity. This is because random chaos is a form of divinity as well. And this contributes to the risk for insanity, at least temporarily, as the individual is having these realizations. These corresponding realizations which the individual experiences while probing inward, into their own heart-and-mind, and then observing corresponding phenomena in their day-to-day lives, are not limited to realizations about other human beings who are beyond the individual. They are much more inclusive. Rocks, trees, plants, insects, animals, smells, sights, tastes, and texture all have there own realms, which can be realized as corresponding to the spark of divinity in the human mind-and-heart. As the individual probes deeper and deeper ( like exploring an abyss ), greater and greater, more and more, inclusive realms are realized. These realms are nested, each one is like a layer, which includes all the previous layers, which includes all the previous layers, which includes all the previous layers, in a nearly infinite nested chain. In my culture, this chain is called "Seder Histalshalus". Wikipedia has a decent article on it. It's not perfect, but, it's rather well written, imo. They don't illustrate the nesting of each link and the inclusions which are increasing layer by layer "madregah l'madgreda" in the Hebrew language. Because the these correspondences to each individual's inward probing of their own heart-and-mind are vast, nearly infinite in scope and diversity, and because each individual's mind-and-heart is different, the process for realizing these correspondences is a different experience for each individual. Sometimes it's smoothly progressing. Sometimes it ebbs and flows. Sometimes there's plateaus and false summits to contend with. Sometimes the individual seeker needs to metaphorically hop, skip, and jump in order to continue to make progress. And. Sometimes it happens all at once in the blink of an eye. It's not either/or, both are happening simultaneously. It feels like crossing the Abyss, because that's the easiest way for the mind-and-heart to conceptualize it and make sense of it. But that's not what's actually happening. It's a realization. In my culture we have an expression: "It's a paradox, but, it's only a paradox." Then we smile. Our sages in the past frequently are quoted reminding the aspirant: "Both this and that are the words of the living God." "This" and "that" are contradicting concepts. When the sage says: "Both this and that are the words of the living God." they are reminding the student that the contradiction is an illusion. It isn't "either/or". It's "both, simultaneously, this and that". The English word "God" is notoriously vague. In my culture it is specific. God is unknowable; it is The Source. It is the Source which is creating, right now, the ungrund, the abyss, the material realm, the immaterial realm, thoughts, feelings, events, concepts, words, my laptop, my nostrils, my whiskers, all of it. The Christian trinity is a form, a revelation of divinity. If I were to guess, you are asking about the "God-head" in Christian theology? This is a concept which exists in my culture. The early Christian theologians were Jewish, so, they probably were familiar with the concept. The God-Head is the largest, most all encompassing, of all the layers of divinity in the nearly infinite nested chain of revelations of God's will. You're asking about position, but, position is meaningless in this context. Each individual will assimilate their experiences, mundane or not, from within their own frame of reference, from within their own cultural context. Even a hermit has a cultural context. Their frame of reference is isolation and perhaps plants, animals, and insects. For these individuals, it makes sense that for them, they would experience something akin to druidry when they are probing inward and realizing the vast array of correspondence expanding and nesting, layer after layer after layer in their environment which is including them. Also, due to the isolation, they may confuse themself with God, the Source which is creating everything. Someone raised in a war-zone , as a warrior, might encounter gods/angles of war, conflict, and chaos in the "first" position. But each individual is different. Modern seekers might encounter some sort of "Borg", or something, in their endeavors. There are as many possibilities as their are individuals in regard to the position of that which will be encountered beyond the "Abyss". For those who are curious, I found what seems to be a very good Master's Thesis on Boehme's writing from University of Oklahoma. It appears to have been signed and accepted by the faculty. Their signatures have been recused. I haven't read it, but, it looks interesting and robust. https://shareok.org/bitstream/handle/11244/329740/2003_Herd_Van_Thesis.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

As you wish

The difference is like hand in glove. Personal action is the hand in the glove of the soul.

You see it as one or the other? Not both?

Figure what out?

Yes, we need to remember to do that.

I'm not clicking that.

I agree with virtually everything you wrote, but, I choose different words to describe it. My only nit-pick would be that this "life" you are referring to is a material life. Mortal life. Corporeal life. In other words: I do not limit myself or any others to only their material life. We are more than corpses and carcasses. The Torus-uni-sphere model is a closed loop. A rat-race, so to speak. A zero-sum-game. From my perspective, that's the material world. I am quite sure, we are more than material, there is more than the torus-uni-sphere, if that's the model your choosing. That said, it's a wonderful discovery. Now. Friend? What are you going to do with it?

Based on what you wrote in reply to my question, I think you're putting too many, all , of your eggs in one basket. You want to branch out? Right?

What do you want to accomplish after you've completed it?

The author of Acts claims to be a Pharisee. Certainly. But not now. I'll try to get to it tomorrow.

Look at you, Nungali! You're attempting to be productive. Good for you! Let's see... in 52 minutes you went from criticizing to trying to help.

It's called a hypothesis. First there is observation, then there is a theory, then there is background research, which produces a hypothesis. Then a test is designed. The test is reviewed to ensure it will produce falsifiable evidence. The test is executed. The evidence is collected and evaluated. The actual test procedure, as executed, is reviewed to ensure that nothing unexpected occurred which will compromise the results. Then a conclusion is produced The conclusion is posted for peer review. This is the standard scientific process. It happens every day, all around the world. Lacking a hypothesis, what you are calling "fishing", scientific research would be nothing but chaotic nonsense.

...to put you back on ignore.

If the author known as Paul was a Pharisee, I expect there will be a connection. But, it's not important enough for me to spend time on it.