Daniel

When you use the phrase "god of this world" is that coming from a christian background and context? What does "proceed further" mean to you? It would be helpful to know what you envision as "good progress". "Good times, bad times...You know I've had my share." - Led Zeppelin

Much love and peace to you as well.

The following song choice was inspired by the recent thread started on individualization, specifically the passage of Carl Jung read by Alan Watts, but there are also elements of it that link up with the Hopsin song that was posted above, "Fly". This song is called "Tether". It's one of my very favorite songs by one of my very favorite artists, The Indigo Girls. I've posted their music here before. They're amazing. They have a massive library of music. They're brilliant song writers and lyricists. There was a period in my life where they were all I listened to. I had a folder on my phone with the majority of their songs and I listened to it on random constantly. "Tether" asks a simple question. "Can we bring it together?""Can we call from the mountain to the valley below?""Can we make it better?"Do we tether the hawk, do we tether the dove?" Accepting these opposing forces, from the mountain above to the valley below... accepting them for the purpose of releasing them, not tethering them, strongly resonates with me. While at the same time, if they are both accepted and released as a pair they will moderate each other naturally. One becomes the other in an infinite glorious dance. This, imo, is precisely what Jung was describing in the passage which was posted. ... Open your eyes, open your mind, and fly ... ... it is this that makes possible the reunion of the waring halves ... ... do we tether the hawk? ... ... do we tether the dove? ... ... do we leave it unanswered? ... ... open your mind? and fly? ... ... the reunion of the waring halves? ... ... walking a tightrope? ... ... bridging the gap? ... ... bring it together? ... ... do we tether? ... Lyrics:

Love-it.

It is really complicated. I don't envy your position. Yes, the medication, I think, gives a window of opportunity but it is not a solution. While the medication is bringing some relief, that's maybe a time, a window of opportunity, for a good therapist to help, as you wrote, "reframe the way to see the world". But yes, I agree, like you said, after a while it's not, let's say, helping anymore. What I wrote was out of concern for you, because, it sounded like you are in a really dark place. This, imo, is very reassuring. There's an idea, an old idea. In the heavens there are many palaces with many chambers and many doors. There is a key for every door, but, honest tears will open them all. I've been told, it wasn't too long ago, in the houses of worship, they had a special room for the cryers. Some people were known as having a talent for crying. It wasn't a bad thing at all. It was a good thing to be sensitive and feel those emotions deeply because it was believed the heavens opened immediately for such a person. Ancient philosophers and mystics asked themselves, "Why do we cry? What are these salty tears? What is their purpose?" It's an interesting question, to them it was a great mystery. I agree. They connected the tears with rain drops, and they connected rain drops with blessing. When a baby is born the first thing any parent wants to hear is the crying. Good strong crying, means the child is viable, and virile. A survivor. No parent wants their child to be delivered in silence. That is not healthy. One of the greatest gifts a child can give their parent is: "Tell me where it hurts." When a child is in pain, but does not communicate it. It's awful. Awful. If the crying is bringing relief, I'm not sure that increased repression is a good choice. I do think there is a lot of truth to what you've written, but I think it needs to be applied with caution. There is a time and a place for expression. There is a time and a place for restraint. This can also be applied to any form of self-gratification.

wow.... your advice is "believe in invisible energy vampires and don't listen to women" You sir, should not be giving advice.

Based on what you've written specifically the magnitude of the symptoms and the compulsion, getting some professional help I think would be a good idea. A licensed therapist, psychologist, or psychiatrist. This is not me judging you in any negative way. What you have written above is cause for concern. These are symptoms of an illness which can be treated. That's a really long time. You're 28 now. This has been going on for half of your life. You have my sincerest sympathies, but I honestly think this is more than can be addressed on an internet forum. A good therapist can help with this. That is their speciality. It's what they do.

"I am breath and awareness" - these come and go as well. I'm one who has thoughts I'm one who has emotions I'm one who has a body I'm one who has/had possessions I'm one who has family I'm one who has/had a job I'm one who has a past I'm one who has a future ... I'm one who is wasting the present thinking about what I am and/or what I am not.

What you're experiencing is natural and normal. This too will pass. You're among friends here who have been through it or, more accurately, are currently going though it with you. It's an ongoing process of revelation. This can be flipped into good news, but it takes practice. Everything that is "good" is surrounded, on all sides, in all manner, and in all dimensions by what is "not-good". That is how "good" is defined in the mind. The word "good" ( godt? ) is just a symbol in the mind. The mind attaches to this idea and focuses on it, but, simultaneously it is also considering the many infinite variations of "not-good" and skipping over those instead focusing only on the "good". When someone begins exploring the nature of reality, either intentionaly or their mind naturally awakens to it, it's completely normal to realize, either right away or shortly after, that everything they know and love is being eclipsed by infinite "darkness". It's like an endless desert lacking any water. It's an analogy used in the Zohar. But, if that desert is understood, zooming out, the nearly infinite negations of "not-good"... they're all pointing to the same thing. There's nearly infinite versions of "not-good", but they're all pointing and concentrating and defining the "good". This is the road map embedded in the desert itself. And therefore, even the "not-good" is "good" if it is understood from the proper perspective. If the bearer of bad news is speaking truth, and I think it is, then, the feeling of dissappointment and depression is itself a map out of the desert. The feeling. Being sensitive to those feelings can lead a person out, up, in, wherever they choose to go. At risk of sounding like obi-wan-kenobe, trust your feelings. If there are conceptual frameworks that are erasing those feelings, discouraging those feelings, I would avoid those like the plague.

Everything that exists in the material world can be described in terms of body and soul with only one exception. The body of a rock is the outer dimension, the soul of the rock is its inner essence. The body of a cloud is its outer dimension, the soul of a cloud is its inner essence. The outer dimension of a rock and a cloud, I would expect, are easy to conceptualize. Perhaps it's the soul that gets tricky? Do you remember the exchange I had with one of the buddhists, "C T" in the "Enlightenment" thread about the hammer? In that dialogue I described some aspects of the soul of a hammer. The body of a hammer, hopefully is not a problem to conceptualize. Buddhism denies the soul, right? If so, that will likely be an obstacle in discussing this too deeply. You would probably need to temporarily set aside buddhism in order to appreciate my point of view.

I'm not going to comment on politics. All I will say is I am deeply and profoundly troubled by the situation. And I've been troubled about it for a very long time. Thank you for the concern. Your thoughts and wishes mean a lot. I would not worry about this. What ever happens, it's going to be OK.

I do not see the body of the rock or the body of the cloud as a vehicle of free consciousness.

Now is just a snap shot in time. I have faith too, and thank you.

if what is seen is a reflection, and the reflection is known to be imperfect, and those imperfections are consistent, and understood... then one can trust what is seen, IF, big IF, it is interpretted through a perspective which is taking into account the flaws inherent in the reflection. Then an accurate understanding can be produced. With practice. The problem I have observed is, just like looking into any mirror, the focus of attention of the human mind is automatically drawn to the human form and face that is staring back at them. And since it is their own form and face, there is a tendancy for self-love and self-idolization there. Also, the human mind auto-corrects the image even though it is flip-flopped. In a similar manner, if a person can release themself, train themself, to avoid fixating on the "Self" which is looking back at them. Avoid it. And realize that the mirror is being flip-flopped, among other things... Then I think it makes sense to trust what is "seen". To a degree.

Nice. I liked this. Yeah it's a little old fashioned, but It's fun imagining it live at a family gathering. And when you're old, we'll still love you and bring you with us to the "gatherings". I think it's great! You brought a mix of old and new. It is a sweet song. Sesame Street was designed and written both for the child and for the parent so that they could watch it together. Here's my additions to the thread inspired by your choices. 1) When the Ship Comes In - Bob Dylan: Clearly I was inspired by the lyrics of the first song you chose. It is also a little old-fashioned. But I think you'll like the nice clean acoustic guitar and the passion brought in the lyrics and the message. Originally it's an Arlo Guthrie song, but I think Dylan's version is better. It's one of my favorite-favorite songs, not just by Bob Dylan, but for all time. Yes, it's a protest song. And the events that inspired these lyrics have, for the most part, ended. But who hasn't felt that they were facing insurrountable opposition? It's classic David/Golaith, and this is included in the lyrics. Ultimately, for me, the song strongly cultivates "glory". And I love that. 2) The Rainbow Connection - Kermit The Frog: Another classic inspired by your second choice. Who doesn't love this song? Besides the obvious meaning on the surface, I love the idea of connection and the rainbow. The colors are not blended and poured into a melting pot of oblivion. Philosophically, this strongly resonates in me. Also, I love the lyric ... "someday we'll find it". Again. "Someday" is "right now", if I can pivot my perspective. And. I love the last part of the lyric: "... the lovers, the dreamers, and me." Whenever I hear this, or think about it, it provokes the questions in my mind: "Wait a minute, Kermit is not a lover? Kermit is not a dreamer? The lovers, the dreamers, and me? What does that say about Kermit?" And then I answer it, in my own mind: "Well of course silly, Kermit is a frog. Even a frog can find the rainbow connection, and so can you (me)." God Bless you, Jim Henson. Lyrics: Lyrics:

The "veil" metaphor is a good one. But I think the illusion needs to be examined. The veil is drapping over the truth, like a garment. The outlines of the truth are there, present, proximal. The veil is taking the shape of what is concealed within it. But taking it one step further, the veil is fluid. Reality is like an endless sea. It's like water in all directions. The veil is being poured over the truth and it is coating it in such that it appears there is no difference and distinction between outer shell and the inner essence. That's the illusion. The illusion is there is only the shell and no inner essence. OR. There is only inner essence and no shell. Both are false perceptions. Once this illusion is realized, then, one can examine the illusion and accurately observe some of what is being concealed by it. The accuracy of these observations comes from accurately realizing what the illusion is, and how it works. Your qualification of "physical reality" is excellent. Once the illusion is accurately understood, there are many non-physical worlds to explore, and a lot more can be learned that is not captured and contained in the here-and-now. The problem is, these illusions are everywhere. You are correct, they surround everything. The human mind naturally skips over these illusions in order to function. Breaking down that natural and very useful automatic filtering in the mind produces a lot of problems if one is not very careful. They will not be able to distinguish between the inner subjective experience and outer objective phenomena. It's already a challenge to do so. Erasing the filter which skips over the illusion, often makes it worse.

Your shower sounds amazing... literally. Sounds. Amazing. From the chanting. It's interesting that you would call it ecstatic. Breslov? Definitely escstatic; that is Chagas Chassidus. ChaGaS. Chesed-Gevurah-Tiferes. That's heart, passion. Abulafia is Ohr HaSechel, The Light of The Intellect. His perspective comes from probing Ramba's writing (Maimonides) thinking there is esoteric content woven and encoded in it that is perhaps not even apparent to Rambam while it was being written. Rambam is the quintessential rationalist. Not emotive in the least. Rambam discourages all of that. I haven't read a lot of Abulafia's writing, but, my recollection is the goal for Abulafia is to align the human intellect with the divine intellect for the purpose of having a sort of prophetic experience. Interesting. Yes, I recall learning about the vocalization of the consonants and the oration of the vowels. It's been a while, I don't have Abulafia's system memorized, but it's remarkable how well the meaning of the pronouciation derives the meaning of the words. The vowels are the "soul" of the word. The consonants are the body. Vocalization occurs from the 5 vocal "instruments" in the body: ( bottom to top ) diaphram, palette, jaw, tongue, and lips. The root of all ritual, it's foundational principle, in this context is "as it is below, so it is above." This is repeated so-so many times in Zohar. These 5 vocal "instruments" "below" are reflected "above" in the heavens. Technically they are like God's left hand. And so, every song or chant is a ritual that is considered to have real impact in the heavens. It's like shaking a chain here in the material world, which in turn is shaking the other end of the chain ( shaking God's left hand ) which stretches all the way back up the chain to God itself. Song and chant is no different than any other ritual at it's most basic level. Lighting candles, offering bread and wine? It's shaking the chain below, which creates a domino effect in the heavens. It's the same with singing and chanting. And for the Breslov Chassadim... Dancing.

Another quote lacking a citation. @old3bob is referring to CHRISTIAN Panentheism. It is from the wikipedia artictle under the subhheading Catholic Panentheism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism#Catholic_panentheism Here's the entire quote. It's important to put this in its CHRISTIAN context, because Panentheism asserts God as beyond containment. But this contradicts with CHRISTIANITY so they change the definition. It's easy to see that Bob stopped copying the quote immediately before the Christian context would have been obvious. What bob brought is not ACTUALLY Panentheism, because God is considered to reside IN the indivdiuals. And of course people love-love this idea that they are possessing God. That CANNOT happen in panentheism. Here is the actual defintion which naturally does not fit within a Christian context. It's the very first sentence of the article, but Bob skipped over it. Panentheism ("all in God", from the Greek πᾶν, pân, 'all', ἐν, en, 'in' and Θεός, Theós, 'God')[1] is the belief that the divine intersects every part of the universe and also extends beyond space and time.

Hot tea when it is shared forces everyone to slow down. It cannot be gulped, but only sipped.

It's always good to cite the source. This is a mathmatical theory claiming that the shape of a modern "yin-yang" came from the pattern of light and shadows produced by a primitive "sun-dial". It's an interesting theory, but, if it was actually true, one would expect that the modern version of the "yin-yang" would have become popular much-much earlier.

Here is one of the earliest sources of what became the "yin-yang" translated into english. More detail is in the wiki link below. I prefer the diagram on the wiki-link because the source at the top is red. This is significant. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taijitu

If it is truly, literally, absolutely infinite, it would include both light and dark, the entire spectrum in between, and more. Always more. Both light and darkness would be simultaneously eclipsed and subsumed within it.

Um. There's a problem. Your plan above is the defintion of arrogance. You are arguing for your own oppression and destruction.

I think you are conflating justice with vengence. Law enforement is part of a justice system, not a revenge system. That's the point of having a justice system with checks and balances, but it can be corrupted and manipulated. Yes, I agree, but, there are other ways of defusing the frustration. All of them come from "understanding". ( see below in a spoiler if interested ). I think the problem with using revenge to offset the unhealhty side-effects of frustration/anger/rage is the victim is the worst person to determine punitive justice. They are the least objective. They are the most emotionally reactive. They are the most likely to be excessive and/or punish the wrong party in haste. Specifically, the key-word in the OP, imo, is "corrupt". They would like to use nearly limitless invincibility to intimidate or coerce the corrupt powers to do the right things, and make proper choices. I think it's a perfectly noble ideal. But it requires knowing what those "right things" and "proper choices" are. But these institutions are far beyond them and it is impossible to know their inner-workings. This produces an illusion of simplicity of a solution to the corruption such that intimidation would solve it. Further, because these institutions are out of reach, there is additional frustration coming from the lack of empowerrment to execute this overly simple solution. Frustration/anger/rage almost always are produced by these two factors. It's a lack of power in partnership with a specific sort of lack of knowledge. It's a lack of knowledge of one's own lack of knowledge. Understanding one's own individual limitations in knowledge and power are a healthy alternative to executing revenge in this particular case, but also in general. But, the desire for revenge is natural and normal. There is nothing wrong with it, and it can be very useful if it is moderated by other intellectual and emotive qualities.