Daniel

Yes, and it's ok when it's true. If not then anyone could say anything and rewrite history unchallenged. The idea is, if someone ( your source, Navah? ) opens the door and claims knowledge another person is justified to respond in kind. Anyway, hopefully you'll recall that I said this at the beginning. I was careful to acknowledge the value of having a rational approach. And in the most recent post I acknowledged, sincerely, the achievement of alllllllll the other great thinkers and gifted individuals outside of the ancient Jewish traditions. But that doesn't change it's not like the others. Have you heard the story about the magic cucumbers? I think it was Rabbi Akiva, he's walking along with a student teaching, and they start talking about cucumbers and.. 'poof' a field of cucumber magically sprouts. "Ooopsie-doopsie, did I do that?" Does that sound like typical ancient "science", or was it a "happy-accident"? It's a totally different paradigm from what you seem to describing and what alllllllll the other cultures were doing. They were engaging with forces of nature, natural laws, making fire and ice and everything in-between. If-then, reliable, consistent, like flipping a light switch. The ancient Hebrews didn't do things this way. That makes the individual a god, and the natural law their slave. Instead the ancient Hebrews were devoted to their deity. It's devotional, not gnostic. Then blessings cascade...

The short story is: It's all the same deity being considered from different perspectives. In summary, the theology of Moses is both immanent and transcendent. The theology of Christianity is immanence. The theology of Islam is transcendent. After Christianity gained traction the theology of Christianity is rejected by mainstream Judaism rendering a theology of strict transcendence but also discouraging spiritual pursuit and faith based practice. Here's the long story: The early Christians, who were Jews, were looking for the "divine presence", the shechina (known in some circles as the Word), to return to the temple. Before the Babylonian exile, according to the story, the divine presence, the shechina, visibly descended on the temple as a column of fire to consume the offerings which were brought there. It was visible undeniable evidence of God dwelling with the Jewish people. Then, the temple was destroyed by Nebachunezer as a result of repeated major transgressions. While in exile, the leadership codified the law, setup academies to teach the law and the mythology to the people in hopes of preventing future exile, perhaps to fulfill the prophecy of Deuteronomy 28. Before the exile, common people didn't really know much, and they were considered by the elite not to be trusted to follow the law. ( They're called Am Ha'aretz, a pejorative, people of the earth ). So, Cyrus returns the Jewish people to their homeland, the people were much more observant, and they felt they were doing everything right. But.... The visible obvious divine presence didn't return. The talmud identifies three major crimes that everyone was committing in private which prevented this. By the time Jesus arrived people were confused. They expected and desired salvation. Parents started naming their children Yeshua, which means "salvation" in hopes of bringing a savior from "the gallery of souls" for lack of better words. Perhaps a reincarnation of King David, or even Moses, maybe Joshua, etc... Yeshua was a common name at that time. The idea that God would incarnate in human form was foreign and antithetical to Jewish theology, but, there's links to it in Exodus 33, ideally read in the Hebrew. But also Judges 13. Manoah knows it's not god, but also claims to have seen God in human form and fears for his life. Also the legends of the shechina/metatron, and "son of man", both set the scene for a human emissary for God which was essentially, in essence, no different than God, God incarnate. After the destruction of the 2nd temple, Christianity was developed, and the disciples of Jesus who originally were convinced that "the world to come" aka "the kingdom of God" was at hand started to become discouraged and needed to explain to themselves and the early Christians why the world was still a mess, basically. The Jews became scapegoats for killing their Lord, even though Jesus taught his sacrifice was required and was part of the plan. He volunteered. Scripture was written/ adjusted accordingly. Anti Jewish elements are in the later scripture, not the earlier. The result was a psychological splitting exaggerating a black/white good-vs-evil paradigm. Jews, non believers, skeptics became the enemy. Jews seeing the rise of antisemitism and the rise of missionary pursuit of uneducated unaffiliated Jews responded by rejecting God's immanence which was originally included in the theology of Moses. But they also rejected anything "spiritual" or "faith based" because it felt that sounded too Christian. This results in the modern mainstream Jewish theology of transcendence not immanence and discouraging spiritual pursuit. Around 1800ish there was a rival of spirituality and a return to the theology of Moses, but, it's not without the rejectors. The three major denominations of Judaism still reject God's immanence, but there's a major fast growing trend to reintroduce spiritual elements to conservative and reform congregations. But this is happening in general against the desire of the leadership who would prefer to be known as academics and scholars not spiritual leaders. So, here's the progression mapped out. Theology of Moses: spiritual, transcendent and immanent. Christianity: spiritual and immanent Islam: strictly transcendent, generally not spiritual Modern Judaism: rejecting Christianity, strictly transcendent discourages spirituality for all but the elite Revival by some of the theology of Moses with many rejectors.

It all depends on what is happening in the spiritual realm ( assuming such a thing exists ). Time-space would not exist there in the same way as an earthbound reality. There would be no hiding from the horde of collections agents, and potentially no end to their pummeling. Not really forever, but, it might feel that way. Alternatively merits that are accrued on the "karma-credit-plan" would have a seemingly infinite reward. Not truly infinite, but it might feel that way. The result would be encouraging the benevolent ascetic monk. One wouldn't want to "spend" all their hard earned merits on earth bound rewards. Also the amoral non-interventionist would earn nothing and perhaps go into debt if they are complicit and turning a blind eye to those who are in need or being oppressed.

What I'm sayng is only important from a historical perspective, and, maybe-maybe useful for reverse engineering how the ancient hebrew beliefs, practices, rituals, were discovered and developed. To be clear, I'm talking about a specific meme, an idea, put forward by a specific group of people in a specific time and place. Modern Israeli. The meme is talking about just judaism. "Dahtee" meaning "My knowledge [ guides me ]". Or I know I'm right **about Judaism**. This idea is discouraging a specific mode of mystical, let's say, pursuit or inquiry. My objection is two-fold. First, the ancient hebrew religion was not one sided like this. So, going back in time and overlaying that onto it is misrepresenting / rewriting history. Second, and this happens repeatedly across the board by academics and scholars of all sorts, the the anicent hebrew religion, for right-and-wrong was in opposition to all the other cultures and religions that surrounded it. This means that when comparing what the others were doing, the ancient hebrews would be doing it differently, likely completely opposite. The word "hebrew" means, from the other side of the ever, the river. They were the others. So, looking at what the many were doing successfully doesn't reflect what the ancient hebrews were doing. It probably reflects the opposite. Of all the things that irritate people about the Jewish people and practices, it is this "beng different for the sake of being different" that is, imo, the most pronounced for good reason. It even drives its own citizens crazy. Hence the desire to assimilate, and the conflict over assimilation. But, none of this undermines the value of what the many other gifted people have done with the concepts brought by the ancient hebrew religion. Nor is it devaluing the gnostic approach that the many other ancient cultures used to discover / produce their own monumental acheivements in the science of their time. Alchemy, ritual, and craft are, like you said in your previous post, everywhere. Defintely. And the revising of the paradigm for the western culture, yes, happened around the 1800s. But there is a substantial rationalist revolution happening much earlier in Judaism. It did cause a huge schism. And unless youve read those texts, I'm not sure why you would, their impression would not be recognizable on the Dati ( religious zionist ).

No, it is was my fault, I was being too brief trying to avoid going elbow deep into something which is not relevant to daoism other than indicating another pair of competing interdependent partners. The "there is no word for religion in Hebrew" is a meme put forward by a group of Modern Israelis, a rather large contingent, the "Dati" pronounced "Dahtee". It means "my knowledge." It's geo-centered. Your source is probably Israeli. The fact is, it's not true, there are words for it, and traditionally Judaism was a religion in spite of the word "religion" being Greek in origin. Generally the motivations for Jews to adopt this idea is rationalist, not gnostic, even though they phrasing is remarkably similar. But there's various reasons that it is rewarding. At the time it was introduced, again, in the 1200s, the philosophers were anti-mysticsm. Anti-reincarnation. There were several false Messiah claimants gaining traction. Belief in reincarnation and mystical were identified as the cause. Also these philosophers wanted to pursue Greek philosophy ( neo-platonism? ) and medicine in spite of being prohibited to do so by the a Jewish law. Ironically one of the implications of this rational approach **permits** false Messiah claimants but from a different perspective. Once the scripture is considered complete allegory, which is the rationalist point of view, then all of the metrics for who and what this Messiah is supposed to do are lowered. The "end of days" and "the world to come" are no different and indistinguishable for any other time in history. So almost any wise leader can be considered a Messiah, and 'poof' the 'end of days' is whenever that wise leader says it was, and the 'world to come' is bound to happen any day, any day now... Hopefully you can see why an Israeli Jewish Christian would be rewarded by this idea? And denying reincarnation is also an important doctrine for typical Christian recruiting. There's much less urgency if on can be reincarnated without the everlasting torture. Something to know about Israel. Again, this rationalist 'dati' idea is localized. They have a unique challenge there. It's called 'Jerusalem Syndrome'. If I were to describe it, it reminds me of qi deviation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zou_huo_ru_mo And it's not limited to Israel. It's a risk for anyone delving too deeply into Jewish mysticism without being firmly grounded, mature, and being guided by a teacher. But something happens in Israel that makes this more pronounced. So they have vested interest in discouraging mysticism, discouraging any inspiration coming from past life experiences. I was chatting with a Dati a few weeks ago and anytime the slightest mystical idea was floated two words were consistently said by them, regardless of how true or simple the idea: "Kabala's Crazy". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome I'm not a daoist cultivator, so, I barely have words to describe this... But, it seems like with daoist cultivation there is a, forgive me, a physical component which can be stopped, and the individual suffering from qi deviation can recover somewhat quickly? But with Jewish mysticism and Kabalah, it's virtually all cerebral. The mind cannot let go of those ideas, sometimes, and the only way out is probably medication, perhaps long term. So it's a big deal, in Israel especially, to discourage non-rational approaches to religion. And there's reasons for others too. There's so much more I can write about this, but, I'll stop here.

For the circumstances where a person identifying as a Christian enforces or judges based on "things which imo may have little or nothing to do with what Jesus taught and demonstrated" ( your choice of words not mine )?

Sure. Never the less... The debt should be paid, correct?

I think the statement / conflict that has been identified is relating to absolution of prior harmful actions againt self and others. What you have brought is avoiding harmful actions in the moment. While I have my own personal interpretation and understanding of how this is supposed to work. I think, quite honestly, it's a dangerous path, and it's better to pay the debt, ideally on earth, within the individual's "current" lifetime. "Current" is in quotes because "time" is wonky, for lack of a better word. When Christianity fails, imo, it's when it over-simplifies where it needs to be complex. And when it suceeds, it is accurately identifying simplicity which is being made to be complicated or overlooked. Classic hypocrisy, no? They've conjured up and/or are enforcing their own man-made doctrines? Sad, isn't it consider hypocrisy was the most frequent, number#1 rebuke, if I recall?

My leige, may I be your mindful slave instead? *curtsy*

So. Within a few seconds of declaring my independence, zzzzzzap. The power goes out. Lol. Like immediately. The battery backups start beeping. I go to the window and look. The power company is outside with their trucks. I head out to have a chat, friendly, I promise, with the crew-supervisor, feeling a bit like an American version of Arthur Dent in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The divine comedy continues...

Unpopular opinion: I am not a slave!

Like a moth to a flame... *sigh*. Gratefully a lot of good lessons can be learned from that moth and the way it operates. As long as the lessons learned are inverted and interpretted in reverse. Unpopular opinion: "also this is for the good". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachum_Ish_Gamzu#:~:text=Nachum Ish Gamzu's name is,("גמ זו"%2C meaning Nachum Ish Gamzu's name is described in the Talmud as having grown colloquially from Nachum's tendency to react to misfortune with unyielding optimism, in each case uttering a phrase that became famously attached to him: "gam zu le-tovah" ( literal translation above ).

Unpopular opinion inspired by the comments about so-called "sin" and the so-called "fall": life is simply-complicated

"... any baby born has the mark of that act upon them ..." The only, kinda-sorta, analogy I can come up with, and I'm not saying it's good, is: What if the harm caused to the mother during childbirth is a karmic debt on each and every child?

Especially when the text actually says if there is a flaw "you can be its master!" Gen 4:7. There's multiple crimes involved, if I start getting technical.

... teaching ... https://www.sefaria.org/Klein_Dictionary%2C_תּוֹרָה.1?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en kinda... it would be emunah ( faith ) + betach ( to trust ). Generally this is an idea ( there is no religion ) put forward by, ummm, a somewhat radical group of rationalists. It first arrived on the scene in around 1200 CE ish, and there was quite a bit of push back from the mystical community. Naturally, I'm not a huge fan of that movement. But, there's a lot of different people in the world, and it's good that these rational approaches exist along side with the more imaginative approaches.

Agreed 100%. I almost posted it, but I said to myself, "nope, it's too popular".

That sounds like a popular belief... I think that there have been many wise people across the globe, and I appreciate learning from them. However, the religions that have developed from these wise people, may or may not be useful. I like to graze... cafeteria style. Long ago in my career, I was shadowing two of the senior engineers, and they asked me what I wanted to focus on. I told them, I wanted to learn about everything. They both told me, that would never work. Yet, magically, it worked great, and I've never regretted it. In fact being ubiquitous has been a true asset.

OK, ok... Here's an unpopular opinion: I use faith a lot and it works. It's a useful tool. My mantra, if that's a proper word for it, "there's always another way".

Yup. I found a lot based on what you brought. Just a little nudge is very helpful for those of us that are motivated and resourceful.

Thank-you-thank-you. This looks truly great!

Those are just his material outer-garments.

clik

Unpopular opinion: "Nothing is sacred" ( double-meaning-intended / they're both true and unpopular ) Long live the King!

Thank you. Sincerely,