Daniel

Nice to meet you Lao Xiong, I'm new here too, but have been on another similar forum for years. Many blessings and best wishes on all your endeavors. Sincerely,

lair of the dragon : nothing ventured nothing lost unless... gain' *is* loss

OK, ok, no one spank me too hard for this one.... but how about the Qur'an 2:2-3.... not the entire verse... just a snippet. It has to be, hands down, my favorite quote ever. And because it's buried in the Qur'an makes it just that much sweeter. Cause I'm not a Muslim. ( delicious irony ) Here's the verses from the Sahih International version. The quote I'm speaking about is bold and underlined. This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah. Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them. As I said, I'm not a Muslim, but I really like this idea. For those who don't know, in Islam, Allah is the ultimate reality. That means "those conscious of Allah" actually means "Those who are conscious of the ultimate reality" .That's why I like these two verses in the Quran, and it's one of my favorite quotes of all time. Those verses are talking about *us*. Students of the Dao, isn't it? Those who are conscious of the ultimate reality. Further, what does it say about us, the Students of the Dao? We believe the unseen. I don't know about you, but, that sums it up for me quite well in a nice tight package. What does it mean to be a Student of the Dao? We believe the unseen. The dao that can be spoken or seen is not the Eternal Dao. That's why it's my favorite quote. Cause I'm a Jewish Student of the Dao who believes in the unseen per the Qur'an. It's freak'n ironic as hell, and makes for fun at dinner parties and such.

It's a pleasure to meet you stimpy, my name is Daniel. edit to add... not THE Daniel, just Daniel.

exactly. I don't know. From what i can tell this is one of the final gates on one of the paths to enlightenment: Releasing the attachments to Desire. Desire can be good ( healthy ) or bad ( unhealthy ), of course. Just like anything. The desire you describe above,^^ is, I'm sorry to report, imho, not a healthy desire. An example of a healthy version of Desire is: wanting to help others towards their own freedom ( teaching ). Or perhaps another example would be the attachment to the completion of a bridge that is being built, and the individual wants to complete the project, knowing how many people will be helped by it. That sort of attachment is healthy. Perhaps since you referenced Buddhism, I'll use that framework to answer your question... ( assuming I understand it ). What you're describing is the difference between a Buddah and a Bodhisattva? Isn't it? I'm not Buddhist. So forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn. The Buddah has no attachments at all, none. They are obliterated and annihilated. The Bodhisattva, on the other hand, retains the healthy attachment to the Desire to Teach, to Help, and to Make. But has no other attachments at all. It is as if Desire is all that's left. Healthy desire to help make and do, not unhealthy desire to exploit and dominate. Hopefully that makes sense? ... So, yes there are healthy versions of desire, to help to make and to do virtuous deeds. But, the desire for freedom, is not on my list of healthy attachments as far as I have seen. I can give examples, but it would insulting to any "Believers in Christ" who may be reading this thread. And I do not want to disparage their scripture. Does that help? Too wordy? Sincerely,

Choice. Choosing to accept bondage is a version of freedom. Keeping perspective is the key.

Please excuse the ignorant question: Are there neidan practices which focus on UDT cultivation? Is UDT cultivation dangerous?

This is something I think y'all are going to Love. It's the Wooten brothers. Victor, some of you will remember as the bass player from the Flecktones. The other brother, you may recognize is Roy Wilfred( reggie ), affectionately know as "Future Man". Here, he is playing a standard guitar. However, he also plays an instrument of his own design called a "Drumitar or Zendrum". But this video is before all of that. This is an example of the Wootens in their early years. But regardless of what these folks do, no matter where they go, and no matter whether it is new or old... The whole trio is amaze-balls. What makes this video special is that you get to see Victor battle Roy. It's pre-Drumitar, so this is an old video in the grand scheme of their musical portfolio. Like I said, these are the early years of their career. Doesn't matter though. What results is nothing short of magic. they are priceless

Hope y'all don't mind something soul full... For George and his family and friends.

OMG.... That is a missing link to many many of my questions. Thank you so very kindly for saying this. Sincerely,

Forgive me, this may be ignorant: niwan? does it include physical movements/postures in its practice?

If I recall, a description of the UDT can be found in a discussion of the 9 palaces in The Routledge Encyclopedia of Taoism compiled by Fabrizio Pregadio. I have it in my collection, and I am happy to provide the relevant entry/entries here if there is interest. Disclaimer: my memory is still bungled and botched from this weekend. So I may be miss-remembering all of this.

Hello Cleansox, Thank you for your helpful advice. My lineage is not a cultivation path. However, buried under all the rules and devotionals, I'm starting to notice a UDT cultivation path hidden deeply there. The more I contemplated on it, the more destructive it was to my Self. ( sigh ) Further, I am a tiny bit smart in Math. In studying Quantum Mechanics I noticed the same thing, a UDT cultivation path hidden deeply there. The link between the two is, both rendered insanity for me as I contemplated on them as cultivation paths. To test my theory, that my own religious practice, and contemplation of q.m. are both UDT cultivation paths, I went ahead and combined them and practiced both simultaneously this weekend. Insanity was the result. I'm coming back from it now, it will probably take a week or two to recover. However, there remains a problem. My brain at this point cannot be exposed to any of my own religious practices, nor can it be exposed to Math in any way or else.... Ziiiiiiiiiiip. I jump right back to insanity. It would be a bigger problem if it weren't for the Pandemic. I'm a tutor, for middle school students. Guess what I tutor... Hebrew language and Math to middle school students. Gratefully, due to the pandemic, my insanity isn't affecting my work. That's why I was sking about UDT, thinking potentially that I could reinforce mySelf. My Take away is: I need to start at the ground floor, build a foundation brick by brick no matter how long it takes. And then if/when the pandemic subsides, I'll be able to go back to tutoring without feeling my sanity drift away.

Hello Paradoxal, I don't intend to dodge your question. However, since I have been instructed above that cultivating UDT is dangerous, I am hesitant to give out any information on it. Also, I'm a beginner. I know nothing. You should be able to get info using google to search terms like "daoism UDT". There should be some charts and information online that will help. Further, if you are still having trouble locating information, I can look in some of my text books to see if there is a description which is both informative but not about cultivation in any way.

@RiverSnake Good to know.

My Friends, I've learned what I needed to learn here. Please note: I'm sorry for posting this here. It was wrong of me to leave my corner of the world and ( forgive me ) interfere. I was wrong. I should know better. My intentions were good based on the posts I've read here. But my bravado was wrong. I know nothing. I will now return to my corner of existence, to be with my own. If I may have permission to return here, occasionally, to read posts and comment with humility, I would appreciate it. Sincerely, Daniel Edit to add: If I may also have permission to occasionally ask respectful questions, I would appreciate it as well.

Thank you, RiverSnake.

A complete outsider's perspective: Desire is the gate. But the gate is empty. Because there is nothing to cling to, the path is clear.

Books on my nightstand, I have 4, a very bizarre blend, imho. Guanzi vol 1. The Tanya ( a Chassidic text by the Alter Rebbe Schneur Zahlman of Liadi ) The Dictionary of FreeMasonry Dragons of Autumn Twilight, the classic Dragonlance fantasy paperback from my childhood. I'm re-reading it.

settled leaves of tea add water time and steeeeeeem ( two syllables ) don't forget to breathe

Hi @thelerner When I was more actively pursuing Jewish Mysticism, I spent time learning about the over arching concepts with some attention spent to practical applications. It was academic; nothing too heavy. I was learning at the local Chabad House 2-3 times a week over the course of 3 years.

Hello, My name is Daniel. I am a middle aged, married, father of two living in America in the Pacific Northwest. I am very new to Daoism. All I know of it comes from internet research and a brief period where I was interested in and learning about Falun Dafa. I come from a large Jewish family, but was not raised in an Orthodox home or with any substantive spiritual/religious practice. However, I have always been a spiritually inclined person. In my 30s, when my wife was pregnant with our first child, I started exploring Jewish Mystism in order to be prepared for any questions my child may ask about their heritage and what it means to be Jewish. Since then, I have been learning, exploring, and developing an understanding of world religions and human spirituality. Even though I know very little about Daoism, I feel something special while learning about it. That is inspiring me to learn more. Sincerely,

Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here.