Iliketurtles

One thing I would like to touch on here, yes I am biased. I am biased because John provided the best evidence that I know of. I feel that is reasonable to assume John has correct training information, and didn't lie to his students. Then again as you said, I am biased.

I am not a metaphysicist, I only know what was taught to me. If it's wrong as you state then so be it.

I agree with you, if what was said is accurate is up for debate. As to his comments, I certainly understand he is speaking the truth as he sees it, based on what he has learned in his system.

Well there were two independent translators who speak Indonesian, Javanese and English who transcribed what was being spoken, and then provided a translation of it in English. I feel confident in what was said. If what was said was accurate is up for debate however.

What was taught was recorded on video, just FYI.

Sounds great.

I disagree with your assessment.

I disagree with your assessment. I am not interested in his or your advice, but thanks anyway.

Teacher and practice hopping is something many people I know have done and never found anything comparable, congratulations if you had better luck.

I agree with you, a teacher does not need to prove anything to anyone. A student also is not required to have faith or accept testimonials. Lots of people are interested in pursuing Mo Pai for different reasons, I can't speak for all of them.

It's kind of like asking if you need a metric or standard wrench to work on your car. My engine uses metric bolts so I need a metric wrench yours may not. I will say in the practice that I've studied that grounding is supremely important and cannot be neglected but that may not hold true for your practice.

It's a two-way street, there is no requirement for teachers to demonstrate anything. There's also no requirement for prospective students to accept on faith that a school leads anywhere or does anything or that testimonials of the teacher or system are accurate and valid. I think some people may be interested in breaking the cycle of reincarnation but certainly not all people have that as a goal especially not all people who are interested in mo pai.

"If that's your idea of sounding good, go for it!" I think for a lot of people it's not that it sounds good, so much as they are unable to locate any reasonable facsimile. There are lots of reviews and testimonials of other systems which claim a lot of things, but that isn't enough for a lot of people because if you listen to these testimonials they will have you believing that loneman pai is the most advanced system ever created. If testimonials are enough loneman pai is the best system there ever was.

Ultimately there is no such animal. There is only what John taught, and not what John taught. In the "west" we have all sorts of characters, like Jeff McDuffie, Shifu Lin AKA David Micah Naziri, Shifu Rel aka Rizzy Rel, James Van Gelder, David Lee the guy who is now in control of Jim's old email and social media accounts who fused yin and yang and can now shoot fireballs, Elijah Wilson, Lucas Huang, and tons of other people who offer practices which bear absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to what John taught at all but they all still operate under the banner of Mo Pai. Each year the list of nonsense being called Mo Pai grows and grows. I agree with you that any edited and altered practice which is marketed as Mo Pai deserves absolutely zero respect.

If you are asked for money, it's almost assuredly a scam.

If all mo pai discussion took place there, I think people here would be a lot happier. There seems to be a consensus that this mindless bickering is something the community in general hates, so it seems to me only logical to move it to another location. Out of sight (site?), out of mind and all that jazz.

They seem to like to remove those who pipe up in defense of mo pai quite a bit more than the opposition or at least that is my biased perspective.

It's clear we don't see eye to eye so all I can do is wish you the best.

When threads reach some arbitrary number of pages, people who break no rules get removed to stop it, or the thread gets locked and hidden.

I'll have to disagree with you here, best wishes to you.

So to be clear, I think John may have had a dream or a vision of May Yung Chen. If this dream or vision was real, subconscious fiction or hallucination I don't know. I think John believed what he said, and that he did not have ulterior motives, and that he was not trying to lie or twist the truth. I believe John acted on his beliefs, if those beliefs were founded in reality or not I do not know. I hope that clarifies my position. Please let us move on, or move to the buns.

No please divulge all.

Shadow man you've beaten this horse to the point the glue factory won't even take it. Can we please move on, or can we please continue this on the buns forum so it doesn't disrupt this forum further?

Pretty sure I do, I have friends who live in China, and Indonesia.

I think it's reasonable that John believes that. I wasn't there so I can't say. If someone tells me they saw a UFO land and aliens pop out I would believe that they believe that, but as I wasn't there I couldn't say for sure. Let's move this to the buns forum, or move on. Please.