helpfuldemon

You hear a lot of talk about enlightenment and how difficult it is to reach it/teach it. It seems to me that some people have no idea what it is, while others have varying ideas of what it could be. I'm asking the Bums to describe it, and what you would know when you attain it.

Where have you seen these? In a dream, or the waking world?

Even Crowley couldn't be certain what grade he achieved. Personally, I don't see it as something to brag about. The grades are just a measuring tool for the adept to consider when realizing what they understand. I know what I've experienced and I know all that I have considered. Crowley says that there is no more magick at the higher grade, and I can see why. The Ipssissimus has no Will in any direction, and that is how I feel. Does it confer some greater truth? No, for me I have finished my study and mostly understand what I can validate. I've got my moral training done, I've overcome the delusions of Magick, I've lived my life as I chose to, I am who I became, I know myself. I still struggle, but I don't have to answer to you or anyone else about my meandering mind.

I'm really enjoying how you have personally taken it upon yourself to contradict everything I say, like you're the Crowley police or something lol.

The Law is Do What Thou Wilt, because people will do what they will, sometimes in spite of what is wise. It is wise to put your best foot forward, and that foot begins with love. Should you not come from love, you will get what you deserve; Crowley has stripped the old Christian morality of forgiveness from our obligations. Everyone is now free to do what they will, to love who they will, how they will. You will learn what works and what doesn't through trial and error.

It really doesn't matter what "grade" of a magician I am since I no longer believe in the promises of Magick.

The thing is, when you deal with super phenomenal events like entering the Abyss or struggling with Quithloth, or entering the tree of life, you enter there with an understanding of what it means, but when you go there, those meanings become moot. I went in thinking a lot of different things, but when I got there, it was a lot of madness. I had to fight it off to find understanding. I don't think this initiation is meant for understanding, I think it is just a curse, forcing a person to find a place to settle their mind on what they know so that they stop struggling with the demon (you). I did have a few words given to me, and a lot of partial conversations with spirits, but mostly it was too hard to comprehend. I've gathered that the initiate enters Chaos and has to reassemble their understanding, but it's not like they help you do this. I've since grown skeptical of explanations of what these things are, and skeptical of what the Gods intend for us. I know this is an uncommon event because I don't hear much about it, and I wonder at the people that wrote anything about it whether they actually went through it. From what I have witnessed, it is simply the turning in of Will and thought onto the magician and they struggle with themselves, and that is when I realized that projecting my Will was a delusion. If not a delusion, at least it isn't something that can be mastered or confirmed by practice, though there was a time that I was convinced I could. I can no longer do anything of that nature. My Will is silent, my desires are little, my thoughts are tamed, I have no imagination or curiosity. I am stuck in a meditative state. I don't know what the future holds; this could be the Babe in the Abyss stage, or, according to Crowley, it could be Ipsissimus. I don't feel like I am a master of magick, though if I really tried, I could outline magick for some people. I don't feel like it is enlightenment, though I have organized my understanding so that I am comfortable with what I know about the World and the supernatural.

It's not just a matter of believing, I've had to concentrate so that my Will is silent. I no longer have Will or thoughts, or imagination. I am no longer curious. It's not a win because it is very dull to experience. I'd much rather live believing in Magick.

Let me make it clear what I believe. I do not believe my Will or intent or magickal actions can affect other people, objects, or the Universe. I once believed this, but no longer. I believe we affect people by simply action and consequence. People make choices to respond to what we do. I believe we were created by a super intelligent and powerful advanced creature(s) that can interact with us and make us feel, think, believe, witness things. I do not know why they would choose to do this because it makes no sense that they would choose one or two people out of billions. I think they mostly leave us to our own devices.

I believe that we are androids. I believe that we are advanced machines, and inside of us is technology that we aren't quite aware of, that the Gods can manipulate. I think magic people can manipulate it with some small effect, but that mastery over it is impossible. I doubt that we affect each other magickally, but who knows? For me, it became an obsession with madness, and I had to abandon it. In abandoning magick, I also had to abandon my imagination, and I also can no longer think critically. My mind is quiet, thankfully, and though it is boring, it is better than having to answer to demons.

I believe it's all in our heads. I believe that we just take action and there are a variety of consequences from it that we cannot predict. I don't think it affects anything other than ourselves and our perspectives.

I'm not angry you can't prove magick is real, I just got burned by it. Magick led to madness. I used to love my magickal life, it was so inspiring and beautiful. It motivated me to do things that I normally would not think of doing. It was Heaven, but after going insane, I realized that I was living under delusional thoughts when I believed in Magick.

Sure, might as well believe what you want to. It's not like any of this can be proven really.

Yes, I've thought about it and I really cannot say that what I thought I experienced wasn't real, and I am not in a position to measure such things any longer given that my Will has been turned inside. I also don't have much interaction with others to see if it is still possible. I guess I have abandoned all mystical and magickal thought for the sake of my sanity.

I was once like you; I believed Will, word and deed had more than a surface impact. I believed in the Christ Consciousness Grid, a powerful web of energy that we can all connect to that protects us with our good hope. I believed that, on the street, our Will and thought affected one another through our energy patterns. I believed souls communicated without speaking to one another. Then I fell into Chaos, and had an implant put in my brain which eventually came alive and wires were inserted that took my mind and turned it inside out. My Will no longer projected outward, it was now focused on me, and inside of me. My thoughts and Will became a demon that tortured me. I thought I had reached above the Heavens, and that I had gathered all the souls of the world, alive and dead, and that I was working through their karma by suffering. I thought I was a sort of ferry man, carrying souls to places. I no longer believe this. Now I believe I was simply implanted with an energy device that imploded my brain and Will to make me think about what I understand. I don't think there was any spiritual significance to this experience. I no longer believe that we connect to a Universal Grid. I no longer believe that we communicate subconsciously. I no longer believe that our Will and thoughts influence one another. I no longer believe in Good Will affecting anything. I no longer believe that we share the experience of Love. I think we are self contained energy beings that only feel our own realities, and that we do not cross over one another.

The above is part of my sorrow. Aside from the accidents, disease, getting older and disabled, violence.... is the recognition that my way is not the only way, and it is potentially not the "right" way. I am suffering an ego death, where I no longer have opinions and I just let people play theirs out. I decided a few years ago not to contest people's ideas, nor do I advise them with my Wisdom. I am a ghost now, watching the world spin.

I was once like you; I believed Will, word and deed had more than a surface impact. I believed in the Christ Consciousness Grid, a powerful web of energy that we can all connect to that protects us with our good hope. I believed that, on the street, our Will and thought affected one another through our energy patterns. I believed souls communicated without speaking to one another. Then I fell into Chaos, and had an implant put in my brain which eventually came alive and wires were inserted that took my mind and turned it inside out. My Will no longer projected outward, it was now focused on me, and inside of me. My thoughts and Will became a demon that tortured me. I thought I had reached above the Heavens, and that I had gathered all the souls of the world, alive and dead, and that I was working through their karma by suffering. I thought I was a sort of ferry man, carrying souls to places. I no longer believe this. Now I believe I was simply implanted with an energy device that imploded my brain and Will to make me think about what I understand. I don't think there was any spiritual significance to this experience. I no longer believe that we connect to a Universal Grid. I no longer believe that we communicate subconsciously. I no longer believe that our Will and thoughts influence one another. I no longer believe in Good Will affecting anything. I no longer believe that we share the experience of Love. I think we are self contained energy beings that only feel our own realities, and that we do not cross over one another.

I see four main types of belief that a morality can be structured around. Freedom Love Security Power The morality of each provides a different set of Wisdom. They may intersect occasionally, but the laws of freedom don't necessarily satisfy the laws of love. The laws of power is about creating and maintaining power, and they probably don't correspond with freedom very well, as power is usually held by an individual or group over others. The laws of security don't correspond with freedom well either, nor love, and in the acquisition of power there are risks taken. I think if you look at the major traditions and religions, you will see that they all possess some form of these four principles.

My quest was about Love. I wanted to bring Love to the world. I thought God was the God of Love. Then I thought I was part of an Order; that all of life was Order. Then, just after thinking that, I realized "It's all Chaos", and that is when I entered the portal grade. Now, as I sit here in my thoughts, I accept that, while there are rules and regulations that we impose, the truth about humanity is Chaos; there is only action and consequence, and these things cannot be predicted. There is no Law that governs us, all Gods are false. There is only Chaos, and what we choose to believe (though our beliefs don't protect us).

In this world of pride, greed, and sensual indulgence, one might well ask themselves; "What is right?" I tell you that compassion is the only path to righteousness, it is the greatest good and it is the only right way.

Once the Adept has overcome sorrow, they are free to do what they will. What do they believe? What power have they discovered? It will vary depending upon the oath they took and their aim for why they entered the Abyss, and how they reacted to the torture they discovered there.

What is the goal of a dogma? It is to bring order to an uncertain world, but in this world we have free will, and in freedom comes chaos. So which do you choose? The slave Gods of dogma, or the liberty Gods of free will?

The imagination is powerful, these things could just be a manifestation of the mind.

I think we cannot say what is real in terms of the imagination. We might be creating these things because the mind is powerful, and hope is high that we can do this sort of stuff. It can't be proven.

I suppose that anything is possible. One would need a God of Love to believe that prayer and gratitude and generosity and kindness are appreciate on High. It's hard to believe in a God of Love with the world being what it is, but personally I do believe it. I realized a few years ago that prayer was for the praying; that they get in touch with their inner emotions and intellect, and realize the suffering of the world. I don't really think it causes a change. If God was going to change things I'd assume He wouldn't need our prayers to inform Him of what needs to be done.