helpfuldemon

Yes I've thought about why this has happened, and purifying other people's karma could be one reason, but there is no way to prove that, all of those things are speculative. When I first started with all of this I declared that I would do a lot of different things, and I don't know if I offered myself as a sacrifice or what. In dealing with these pains, I have wondered why such things would be necessary. I don't think God follows these rules.

As much as I like to argue about Thelema, because I find that saying something is the whole of the law to be flawed, and I don't like the third part of the book of the Law "Mercy be off". I know that people need to be prevented from doing certain actions and so we have punishment for those actions, but I feel like people aren't always in line with morality and law, and that we need mercy, and to be given a few chances to learn. I understand that Do What Thou Wilt is particular to Crowley and his theory, but it appears to be do what you like to me, and it always will. I don't think Crowley meant it any other way, otherwise he wouldn't have said that when you do something it can be done to you. I don't have the places bookmarked because I'm not a serious student, but I've read bits that elude to this being the absolute law of freedom, and the strongest wins. I don't think anything was off the table for Crowley. The thing of it is, that I am sort of obsessed over it because when I was being tortured by the spirits, I cried out "Why is this happening to me?" and I fell asleep. When I awoke from a dream, at the end of it, the word Aiwass flashed in my mind. I had never heard of Aiwass, never read it or heard it before, so I knew it wasn't my subconscious. I have to believe that whatever Divine Order there is approves of Thelema, otherwise why would they send it to me? I've been trying to validate or contest it ever since. I've gone up and down in my attempt at understanding. I've also seen the technology that these Gods possess, and I wonder, where have they been throughout history? I used to think that this event in my life and this technology was man made, from our current age. I thought that man had secretly found a way to place technology in our bodies and communicate and etc. I've since had to decide that this is not the case, and that it is Gods machine. Because of these things, and others, I know that the impossible is possible, and so I have to keep an open mind when it comes to prophets, and things like miracles. But I also have to keep doubt in my heart lest I fall prey to any story or myth. When all of this started happening to me, I thought I was going to return to Christianity, but the Gods gave me Thelema, and if that means that Christianity has fallen out of favor, so be it. I was always sort of a Thelemite anyway, without knowing about it. In the end, none of this does me any good because I have been tortured to the point of being disabled, and I don't have much Will to do anything, nor the resources. I don't know why I have been tortured. I wasn't a very bad person when this started, had a wild youth and was pretty lawless as an adolescent, but as an adult, was very kind and I didn't harm anyone, so it can't be punishment for my past really, though that could be true. This torture didn't help me learn any, it just made it more difficult. I've stopped holding out hope that this was something good. As it is, I've lived long enough, and am just waiting to die now. I have no desires, I think much of what we do is just to pass the time, and is meaningless. I've resolved my moral issues and have things in order. I'm not interested in much and I don't feel like doing anything. This whole affair seems like a waste of time, and I can't understand why God, or anyone, would do this to a person. Makes me wonder if God acts at all, or if it is on whim that He does things, and allows so much other stuff to continue. And like I said, I've seen their technology, where have they been? Science is relatively new, did God want us to be simple creatures? And why doesn't God punish evil people? Why punish me? I was no one important, I didn't have a long list of evil actions, I know I asked for the power to bring love to the world, but this is how it was to be accomplished? I was already loving, I had hoped for some supernatural power, which I don't have. I didn't need this.

In my youth, I loved the mystical. I believed in the magick powers that we hear about, I believed I had some advantages. I liked the tarot, and saw my life as an adventurous journey. Then the unthinkable happened; a God replied to my call for aid. This sent me on a perilous journey of deeper discovery, and wound up with demonic possession. This demon destroyed me over and over again. During this stage I started to predict major world events and it seemed like I had some control in the matter. I wound up hallucinating and delusional and broken. I now know the dangers of working with deity and mysticism. I have some unanswered questions that will always be a mystery- in fact, most of the unknown still remains answerless. I now see mysticism as a sort of mental illness, that can lead to dangerous decisions.

Most mystical thoughts are delusions. There is no answer as to who or what God is, or if there is an afterlife or reincarnation, those are fantasies. There is some truth to some of it, like love; people want it and they respond to it, like they respond to anger. You want to feel your heart? Be grateful for what you have, and thank God for His mercy, because He could be cruel if it suits Him.

I'm not going to argue with you any more, you're obviously a zealot and thoroughly convinced of your own opinion. If Crowley was trying to create a new morality he failed; he created the absence of morality, or rather, the only morality he can defend is liberty, to do what you need to do in the name of freedom.

And another thing, if Thelema was as big as Christianity just imagine all that they would do that would be unjust. I don't care what you say, the law is do what thou wilt, and many people will use that to do what they please. Just as Christianity has been misinterpreted, so too would something like Thelema, even more so, IMO. Power corrupts and people will make errors. In fact, you could say that the law of Thelema is in place as it is, and that all the things people do in the secular community could be attributed to it, and look at all that goes on there! You don't have to have heard of Thelema, or be a Thelemite to do what you will.

Yes I have read it. A lot of Crowley's ideas came from other works. The quote on generosity is taken from the Jewish idea of Chesed. The part about honoring other Gods comes from Buddhism. Some of his ideas were original, but like I said, it seems like the mind of a neurotic person trying to create a system to justify action rather than just doing the action for it's own sake. You can't judge the Gospels on the actions of people, I'm sure you know this, especially as a Thelemite. I don't know if that story about the nuns is true, but that isn't something that Jesus would say to do. The Gospels are exceptional examples of how to treat one another with kindness, probably the most refined version of action to this day, and what could be more virtuous than kindness and generosity? Crowley hated Christianity, and one can only assume it is because he judged it according to the works of people and not the literature itself. He thought it was too restrictive, which it is, but for good reason. The church fathers demonize sexuality, saying that it leads to Sin, which it can, just as can the Church do sinful acts. The church is no different than the Law of Thelema, and the injustices you say they committed were made in preserving their faith tradition, something Crowley advocated, and is done by all creatures and organizations of power. Again, this goes against the Gospels, and I've often wondered why people that believe Jesus is God would adopt the word of apostles and monks when it contradicts the message of their God.

Yeah I've read a lot of those works. I didn't get the chance to practice Magick much, I mostly looked for the wisdom in Thelema. To me it seems like an excuse to not practice the high moral acts of kindness and mercy of Christianity, and an excuse to do drugs and have lots of sex. In my life, I've learned that there isn't that much to do in life, and that most things are rather mundane. I find a lot of Magick to be the ramblings of a neurotic man that doesn't simply act, but needs some sort of convoluted processes to explain why to do things.

I'm no expert on Crowley, though I have read everything that is currently available by him, missing a few important books that are out of print, specifically the comment on the Law, but I do agree that mankind can do what they will, and they do; but it will never be the whole of the Law, there will always be laws in place to prevent actions.

That's why the Wiccan take on DWTW is a bit better, IMO. But then, if you read all of Crowley, you'll see that harming people was never off the table for him.

Yes, Crowley believed that we are conditioned to act a certain way depending upon our environment and experiences. He believed that this was made up of old ways that didn't meet with his new liberty and power of do what thou wilt. He believed that that person was a facade, and that the real you lay within the freedom to choose who and what you will be. It's kind of like being raised a Christian and being taught to always do good and help people, and think the best of them, but then you realize that you don't necessarily want to do that all the time. Or being taught to remain a virgin until marriage, and to stay married til death. In many ways, Crowleys new world lacks the kind of morality that had been refined by the religions. Yes, it is more free, but it lacks the kind of good that we sometimes rely upon should we be disadvantaged or impoverished.

Aleister Crowley fought for freedom to do what you will, and he declared each person sovereign of their own worlds. As such, he applied the rules of kingdoms to each person, giving them the right to define their own laws and defend them, to the point of murder. All civilizations have done this, but is it just? According to the laws of Crowley, the rights he says to fight for are God given, normal rights that we take for given in the West. However, the wording of his Law seems to indicate that anyone can do anything and kill for their right to do so, but I don't know if that was his belief. He said that if you do something to another person, it can be done to you, which seems to conjure up the Golden Rule, which he said was stupid. In any case, it is up to the person to define their laws and to see that they work for them within civilization and if it doesn't, then you live or die accordingly.

Where else would one look for reason and righteousness? To God? God doesn't speak. To yourself? That is limited to what you know. You look to others for information and ideas, and then look to yourself. Evil is just in defense of the Good, that is how law works; we punish those that harm the Good with Evil.

I've thought a lot about this and after watching my dreams be of an order that I did not create, I think that there is another place we connect to that we go when we sleep. I see death as the possibility of two places; one is that there is nothing, we simply die and vanish and it is the end. The other is that we enter a dream, and when the dream ends, we fall asleep until the next one.

First of all, most of the worlds mystical/esoteric knowledge is bullshit. Everything is, and everything has its consequences. Good and Evil is defined by Good being not harming someone else's health, wealth, or liberty. Evil is the opposite. Evil is just if done in defense of the Good. The world is fire and motion, fuel and measurement, matter and form. The sciences come from the study of these. Don't be fooled by magick powers; all of that is illusion, though it does provide motive for action. Keep a logical and practical mind as you age, and don't go calling on any Gods, because while they might answer, they won't explain. Don't look to the Gods for aid, look to yourself, and look to mankind, for reason and for righteousness.

The goal of a mystic is to master love and knowledge, so that they can be informative, understand, and give love to all. In order to do that, one must master the modes of being and thinking of all people, to be able to comprehend motive and action. That is why Nungali says that all rational statements are false, and that morality is arbitrary. However, to the individual, these things hold meaning and are very true, and so to comprehend people, we need to see what they believe to know where they are coming from and to understand their actions. Why is this the case? Because the mystic understands the infinite, and in the infinite, all things are possible and all things have meaning and reason. The infinite God is guarded by the God Chaos, and in order to advance to the level of a qualified adept, the initiate must defeat him. That means that the initiate must apprehend all modes of thinking and meaning and justify or denounce them. This takes a long time. In the end, the Adept will have comprehension of meaning and reason, and will see truth with clear eyes. They will comprehend nature in all her violence and joy, and they will see the fragile state of balance that we live in. They will understand that morality varies from culture to culture, and they will find their ground on which to stand for their own value judgements, though a true Mystic of the Infinite will not have any, and they will be free to do what they will in any direction. This type of Adept is a Chaos Magician. You are now free to love whom you will, for all people have a method, and you understand them all. Your God is now Love. The problem here is that in love, there are certain rules of behavior and expectation, and many mystics get caught in placing their value judgements upon action based on their interpretation of love. The contradiction is that if all morality is subjective, and you have liberated yourself from it, then you would not do this. And so one must decide if they worship love or freedom, or love all without question. This leaves you powerless when it comes to choosing right and wrong, and you become no better than those who are trapped in a subjective moral view. So you either approve of all, or you choose to place value on things. If you approve of all, then you are no different from any. If you disapprove of some, then you are still no different from any. So what is the best Mystic to be? That depends upon your reason and definition of love.

Yes it's true that you lose some cognitive faculty, but it is those faculties that are misfiring. Perhaps some therapies could help in some cases, and they are over prescribing, but in my case, I need it.

I have a mental illness and without the medication I take Id be psychotic and hospitalized, so I'm going to disagree with you that they are more harm than help.

Psychedelics remove ego barriers and tear down conditioning. It isn't wisdom, but it is a way to see beyond what you believe. The first time I smoked pot I laughed for three hours. The last time I smoked it I writhed on the floor begging for it to end for the same amount of time.

Perhaps my statement would be better served had I used the word supernatural instead of mystical. I am referring to special powers of the mind and body, imaginative thinking about the unknown. Questions like God and auras, that type of thing.

She was right. They killed other groups too, not just Jews.

Its life for life's sake. We do all of this because we must. The experience of life, that is the purpose and meaning.

The key to the Abyss is the Gnostic Star. It opens a gateway to another place, and the magician experiences torture by demons. Until the magician stops thinking, the torture will continue. Then they become a silent being, with no desire for anything. There is no magic here, all that is fantasy. And so they live out their days in silence.

I agree, there has been a lot of things that have come from mystics/philosophers/religious people that benefit our society. My good friend is an atheist, he laughs at religion, says he doesn't need the promise of a Heaven of Hell to be a good person. I try to tell him that being a good person has been refined by religions and philosophers, and that taking advantage of what they have contributed is false. You can't separate morality from belief, IMO. I have my own evidence of a supernatural reality but it isn't very comforting.

That's interesting to me, I've never thought about what other people think of me, I just do my best and leave the rest up to fate.