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I am saying that his teachings do not lead to the elixir, yet his books and videos on the subject mislead people into believing they do. If he were to openly say he hadn’t attained the elixir and that his school did not lead to that destination, I would not label him as such. He helps a great deal of people but he could help more. It was never my intention to bash other teachers. However, I stick with my claim. Damo and Brine have not achieved the elixir and they mislead people into believing that their lineage leads to that destination when they haven’t achieved it themselves. In addition, they are gating access to teachings unnecessarily for monetary gain. This is the problem I outline. It is a perversion of the arts. If you can explain to me how that view is wrong, I will consider changing my tune.

Closed door teachings can’t be revealed publicly. We can’t hand everyone the key to immortality now can we? Damo’s courses and videos are all open-door teachings. Hence, they can be shared openly. It’s a teacher’s decision on whether they would like to charge or not. It would be a more selfless action to remove the payment for the academy and make it a donation only system. If people would like to pay, they can donate and these donations will go to charity. You are truly blind if you do not recognize that as the superior thing to do

You made my point for me Tell me. Why are the videos not freely distributed then? So people in third-world countries and impoverished areas can benefit. How long will the academies stay open and paid? How much money do they need? How many large buildings do they need to build and setup? It is greed. Plain and simple. I am here to outline the problems no one else has the balls to recognize and fix them. If I offend a few people on the way, so be it. I have been within Damo’s online academy and seen most the videos. He can release all of them for free without consequences, causing more benefit to the world as a result. Ask yourself this Shadow Self(good name by the way for what I am about to reveal), why does he withhold them and gate the academy with a paid fee? Do you have a good reason and answer for that question? I think it is greed and selfishness. My final question: do you honestly believe you can achieve the elixir by becoming a student of Damo? If the answer is yes, you have been misled.

I am allowed to speak freely and withhold the information that I would like. Damo does not name his teachers now does he? 🤨 I pay my teacher. But, I pay him for face to face training. Not pre-recorded videos. Massive online schools are a thing of the modern era. They have never been done before. It is a perversion of the arts. If you don’t recognize that, I don’t know what to tell you. A teacher can not personally instruct and help 1000 people or more. That’s like trying to raise 1000 kids. You cannot give them proper care

Yes, I’m sure their teachers allow them to teach and they have gone through the correct ceremonies, but they market their schools as Neidan schools, when in fact, none of the people stated have the elixir. Hence, they are frauds of Neidan. Neidan methods should only be taught by those with the elixir. Can you lead someone to the elixir - the one and only goal of Neidan without ever reaching it yourself? No. So why are they claiming to teach Neidan. Now, if they are transparent and tell their students freely what stage they have reached and where their teachings actually lead, then they are not frauds. Frauds is a strong word, I admit. But, my main problem is not with any one teacher. It is with the system

I don’t need to name my teacher. You have your opinion and I have mine I stick by what I have said and if you can’t see the problem with some of the things I’ve stated, then I have no wish to convince you. There is no problem with paying teachers for time spent educating. It is the way in which it has turned into an online business that is a perversion of the arts. Damo has not achieved the elixir. The fact that you have closely interacted with him and don’t know this is troubling. The act of charging money for his online school is greedy and selfish when it’s fronted as a gateway to Neidan. He may not personally be greedy and selfish in day to day living, but would you not admit that all the recordings contained in the academy could easily be given away for free? I think if Jesus walked around asking people for a monthly fee to get to Heaven, he may not hav attracted such a large following hahaha. I don’t want to answer all your questions because I can tell you won’t be swayed as you have much allegiance to Damo. It is not Damo himself that is the problem. It is the modern cultivation system that has been evolving over the last few years. People seek to become teachers out of both a desire to help others as well as to make a living out of what they love doing. But, I simply argue that your primary source of income should not be teaching. This means you make too much money profiting from people looking for spiritual growth.

There was no joke. Do you think masters do not exist? Anyone below the Di Xian level teaching 'Neidan' or 'Alchemy' is a fraud. Damo Mitchell, Nathan Brine, Jerry Alan Johnson. All are frauds with no true high-level attainments. Sure, they have skill in Meditation, Magick, Qigong, Neigong, and Martial Arts. However, they are far from masters. If they claim to teach Neidan in its entirety up to the elixir, they are lying. It is evident for those who can see, that they still have a ways to go. It would be more accurate if they called themselves beginners. It is not my job to convince you of anything. The truth is evident if you have the heart to listen. Each of these public ‘masters’ has built a business model centered around online learning and retreats with a massive amount of public students, raking them in dough. However you want to rationalize it, these teachers are simply fraudsters putting on a masquerade of helping people, when in actuality, they are simply deluding themselves. The reason they have done this is to fuel their own practice. How do they gain money to travel and do all the things necessary for their practice in a retreat setting? Through their online business model. No one can teach a thousand students. Theirs is a natural weeding down of students and passing off of students to lesser teachers, which is funny because the head of the school hasn’t even formed the elixir. The head of the school will have a close, tight-knit group of actual students they teach the closed-door teachings too, and then, you finally realize the master of the school hasn’t reached the level of the elixir and cannot lead you to the same place. True, authentic Daoist lineages only allow teachers to pass on methods once they have attained the elixir. This is the way it has been done traditionally and how it should continue to be done. Anything else is deluded and nonsensical. Sure, do your qigong and Neigong retreats and earn your money off your students but do not market yourself as a Neidan master until you’ve achieved the elixir. I am not a master. I am a beginner. But, I recognize the flaws of these public figures for what they are. It is not the way spiritual practices should be passed along. If these public figures were truly so magnanimous and generous, they would make all their open-door teachings free to the general public. You know why they don’t? They are selfish and greedy. Jesus would condemn them the same why I am. It’s a sham.

Any sort of desire leads to a loss of Yuan Qi. This is the opposite of what you want for spirtual growth. There is a harmonization of Yin and Yang and some karmic exchange, but ultimately, if the goal is spiritual growth, it still harms both parties if it is an act of desire. If you do not want to grow spiritually, sex is fine. It is an expression of love. But, you are not truly free if your mind is caught up in desire. I believe there exist vampiric techniques, which have been scrubbed from the records because of the harm they cause. It is a trap best avoided. True spiritual growth requires the elimination of sex and desire. If your goal is something Qigong related, yes, I believe there exist techniques with such benefits. Though, you will never learn them from anyone. They are lost to all but a few. And, for good reason. If you want sex, have it. If that is your goal, go for it. Just know that it is not the route to spiritual growth and never will be. As Freeform says, there are other ways to experience bliss with a partner. Any so called benefits that can be gotten from sex, can be had from genuine practice. Pleasure should be exchanged for bliss. Seeking pleasure is the same as moving away from Dao. Creates Karma. This is simply the way of the universe.

Masters exist at the Di Xian level. Anyone below this level is a beginner and is not a master. Shouldn’t be authenticated to teach any methods

Even if you could vampirically steal yuan Jing from your partner or generate Yuan Jing while having sex, causing maximum amount of pleasure while minimizing loss, you’d still move further away from any sort of spiritual growth. If you choose sensory maximization over spiritual growth, you move away from the path of Neidan. It is a trap. A distraction. You must choose one or the other. Attachment or detachment. For those interested in the deepest part of the path, it seems nonsensical to sacrifice spiritual immortality for something as simple as sex. What do you feel? Temporary satisfaction. Incredible pleasure with the most beautiful woman you can imagine followed by a temporary satisfaction when you orgasm. This all depletes your Yuan Qi and moves you further and further from the destination that your soul seeks. One is not better than the other. Masculinity, power, sexuality, pleasure, satisfaction. Is this not what everyone in materialistic society strives for? You feel so great when you achieve all those right? Yet, there is always something you yearn for. Some hole to fill. Also, once you reach a certain age, sex goes out the window. Daoist lovemaking is an illusion. You want to maximize pleasure? You’re moving away from Dao. My advice: forget about it. I am an attractive male with plenty of potential partners out there. I’ve only had sex a few times in my life. It is simply a fact that temporary satisfaction of desire does not fill the void in my soul. You can look like a Hollywood movie star and give all your partners multiple orgasms, but you’ve only satisfied a deep-rooted insecurity. You’re going to die and go through the same process over and over. Nothing long-lasting will be accomplished. It’s worthless. A waste of time. A waste of effort. A waste of spiritual potential Desire is a trap. You must end all attachment to desire to succeed in a spiritual path. If you’re aiming to be a master of Neidan, looking like a Hollywood movie star is not a blessing. It is a curse. Sure, you date Megan Fox and give her multiple orgasms every night with all your Daoist techniques. Great, your desires are satisfied and you’re an “alpha.” You’re not escaping karma. You’re not bringing value to the world. You’re not gaining siddhi. You’re not becoming immortal. You’re moving away from Dao. You will die. You will be reborn according to your karma. The world will continue on. If sex is all you strive for, sure, go for it! Just know there are just as many people as good at sex and as attractive as you out there. So, You’re not special and nothing you achieve through Daoist lovemaking is noteworthy. Does not meant there is anything wrong with sex and pleasure. It is just not the routes towards helping the world. The deepest desire for anyone serious about spirituality and spiritual growth is to create harmony between Heaven and Earth. Sexual mastery is about creating harmony between you and a partner for maximum pleasure and minimum loss. Sure, that’s fine. But, you will never contribute to the wider whole of humanity through that route. It is cowardly. Selfish. Wasteful. If you know of the path of Neidan and choose the path of sex instead, I would label you as a waste of potential. Choosing sexual maximization over spiritual maximization is a wasteful path leading nowhere but an early grave and another rebirth. Do reality a favor and contribute something meaningful instead.

A master. So yes, I am regurgitating but for a good reason. To help people find the path I think wisdom should not be wasted. The same way texts are preserved. If Lu Dongbin shared wisdom through text when he was younger before he had attained his achievement, would there be anything wrong with that?

Hahaha. I like my honest answer much more than your deluded one. Your words are combative and I can tell you aren’t recognizing my words for the help that they are. You seek to goad others into revealing their true nature, yet you fail to recognize the truth in any words shared to you. Why seek to poke holes in others instantly? Is what I said wrong? If so, please explain to us I won’t responding to you anymore if your words continue to be combative my friend Good luck in your practice!

I think his gongs are authentic if you mean the effects generated by the causes of practice. I believe he has synthesized things from different traditions together to form a streamlined foundation for making body and mind more efficient. For his own practice, he has used some remnants of Neidan alchemical methods. Though, he either does not have a complete method or does not wish to see it through. I believe as he states in this video and elsewhere, his goals are different than what Neidan lineages teach. Instead of seeking the elixir or Yang Shen, he utilizes a Neidan foundation of replenished Yuan Qi to accomplish something different. It’s more an attainment centered around Yin Shen. It’s misleading because his books on the subject are centered around the elixir. Lotus Neigong is not representative of what he and his close students are aiming to achieve and students of that school rarely become a close student of his. His methods and school are great for what they aim to achieve. It just isn’t Neidan. Neidan aims for immortality.

Yes just a different way of doing things I think with different goals in mind. Not trying to put his teachings down. Just stating some slight differences

A good question my friend hahaha. I am a beginner though I know enough to help guide people in the right direction. I will tell you with just the few posts I have on here, you should be able to find an authentic lineage. It’s not too hard. That’s my goal. To guide the people who are meant to find the lineages in the right direction. Then, you must follow that path as far as you wish.

Movements. 3-4 hours a day. It’s a lot simpler than you can imagine. Like playing a sport. Celibate. No sex. Diet clean. External structure perfected, then focus turns to internal state. Awareness moves to subtler and subtler things as you practice.

Nice interview! Though there are some inaccuracies in Damo’s understanding of alchemical practice. Breathing techniques and seated meditation are not necessary. Those are simply within whatever line he claims to be a part of. The energy work is not simply to fuel meditative states. That is wrong. You need no meditation in alchemy. His view is a mix of Buddhist and Daoist and is a dilution of the ancient teachings. It can serve that purpose, sure. Yet, there is no need for seated meditation within true alchemy. His view that alchemy is hacking is more accurate. It is a body based method of accessing the energies that sit behind physicality and working with those for spiritual growth. Any meditative state or experience will arise naturally as if you have taken a drug. There is no need to sit and quiet the mind. The fire will burn the thoughts away automatically. Daoist alchemy dates back thousands of years before recorded history and any form of practice that has mixed Buddhism and Daoism in the way Damo describes is not the original Daoist alchemy. It may not necessarily be wrong, but the combined use of energy work with meditation is not necessary. One can simply work with the original substances through the cauldron of the body to establish the correct conditions for forming the elixir. All without seated meditation or breath work. Good info all around though. Helpful!

I wonder what are the differences? In all true alchemical Daoist lineages, it’s understood that spiritual immortals are eternal, indestructible, and everlasting. They are no longer required to incarnate into the Earthly realm but can travel to any lower or higher realm. So, when the entire Brahma cycle comes to an end, as I understand it, these spiritual immortals remain at the same spiritual level. It’s just the entire universe shifts and restarts. The environment shifts but the Shen Xians still remain at the same level. Whenever a new universe begins, there is a spiritual Big Bang in which spiritual immortals are automatically created or brought into the universe to carry out tasks in line with Divine law. I believe there is also a misunderstanding in which some think spiritual immortals don’t have contact with us on a human, earthly level. However, this is not the case. Shen Xian are infinite beings that can replicate. They can downgrade or separate a part of their being to the human level without losing anything. I don’t fully understand it. But, the soul of the spiritual immortal can be sent back down to the earthly realm to incarnate as a normal human without any recollection or memory that this has been done. Yang Shen somehow downgrades itself back down and enters back into the human realm through the normal birth process to be a Yin Shen again. Even Earth Immortals do not fully understand the Spiritual Immortal level, as the gap gets larger and larger between the major milestones. Earth immortals understand the secrets of Earthly realm. Spiritual immortals understand the secrets of the heavenly realm. If you ever wonder whether immortals truly exist, they do. Lineages have spiritual immortals at the top doing their thing broadcasting and Earth immortals teach the newer generation. My teacher told me in the last 100 years, around 70 people have attained the Earth Immortal achievement. When you consider that they cannot die of old age, then the numbers are still pretty good. They are out there. Now, let’s say 50 of those 70 decide to teach and train students. Usually teachers only really take a limited number of students. Maybe around 5-10. It’s like having kids. You don’t want too many because you can’t give them all your attention. Then maybe 2 or 3 of those students can make it all the way to the masters level. That would be 150 Earth immortals if 50 of the 70 had 3 students reach their level. So, as you can see, it’s very difficult to find a teacher because true masters are so rare and do not wish to be found by more than a few people. The lineages have continued to survive and immortals still appear, so things are still working as they should. This forum hopefully can direct people in the right directions. Much of it is up to your Ming. That’s about all my knowledge on the topic, and I believe it answers the question so you can compare between Daoism and everything else Also, there may be some inaccuracies as I am nowhere close to a spiritual immortal and do not have a complete understanding.

Long story short. Yes, complete Daoist lineages have a spiritual immortal at the top, serving as a sort of broadcast signal for practitioners of the lineage to pick up on. For a lineage to be complete, someone must have reached at least the Spiritual Immortal level in the lineage following the methods taught. Then, there is transmission in complete lineages as well. This is pretty much what the post is referring to. As you practice within a lineage, you modify your radio to tap into the signal of the lineage. This signal is broadcast by the spiritual immortals at the top. Brahma is viewed as the equivalent of Heavenly immmortal in Daoism. Spiritual immortals survive until the end of the Life of Brahma carrying out Heaven’s mandate with free will but no mind, so I believe they are equivalent to Brahman as that’s what they identify with. I am just guessing but I believe spiritual immortals simply move into the next life of Brahma when it ends if they don’t evolve to heavenly immortal level. Remember they have free will. We are in Kali Yuga now. Hopefully that helps! Maybe I picked up a signal to write that

Yep. Mostly true. Neidan doesn’t just involve breathing though. And it is pre-heaven in nature, which is the difference between it and Qigong. And, yes, Waidan was more dangerous, which is why Neidan was favored. I know enough. I just cannot personally say I have interacted with a Waidan lineage. However, I understand the basic theory.

I have no experience with Waidan, but from what I know of it, it walks a fine line between poison and medicine. Why would Waidan masters impart their full knowledge to an emperor? The reasons are far fewer than fraudsters that would have reasons to poison them. Meaning, fraudsters most likely promised the emperor an elixir of immortality without fully preparing him to succeed. Waidan should transmute poison into medicine to accomplish the same things as Neidan. From what my teacher has said, Neidan is safer but still dangerous, dating back thousands of years, much earlier than any histories would state. In any sort of alchemy, there should always be fusion of Yin and Yang for a higher substance. For external alchemy, it only makes sense that poison and medicine fuse together. Any substance that enters the body falls somewhere on the spectrum between poison and medicine. Hence, the danger. Waidan toes this line by playing with poisons to make medicine. Medicine is contained within poison. And vice-versa. If the pills and elixirs were made properly and the body prepared, these substances could form a supreme medicine to transform the practitioner in preparation for the Dan or elixir. For example, A pill to open channels could be made and ingested. Same with a pill to replenish the Yuan Jing. A practice could be put into place to refine the Yuan Jing to Yuan Qi. A pill could be made to initiate the refinement of Yuan Shen. The ultimate Dan Pill could be taken after the necessary preparatory work was done to establish the elixir. How are these pills made? An important question. Combinations of different physical and energetic substances. Energies from the stars. Energies from the body of the practitioner. Maybe more things. But, I think how they are taken is equally important. It’s not so simple as finding the legendary Dan pill and taking it to achieve immortality. There is a progression to follow and different ways in which to accomplish it. If a Dan pill appeared before you and you ate it without knowing the proper prerequisites, you would die. There are always milestones and small achievements to be had. In any case, back to the topic, Brine has good content, but I do not think it leads all the way to the elixir. It certainly can lead far though and is better than many other sources. Thanks for sharing!

Why do doctors become doctors? Many of them are drawn to it by the energy of Ming. Ming is the energy of fate that sits in the background of our lives and affects our thoughts and actions in a way that leads us along our own path through life. We can veer off this path a bit and go against the winds of fate. The most ideal is to find your optimal path. This is the smoothest path of Ming without many wrong turns essentially. If you keep feeling drawn to healing, maybe it is the energy of your Ming trying to show you the path you should take. It is not in your head. Synchronicities can occur. Odd coincidences. Recurring thoughts and interests. Why are people drawn to Daoism and to meditation? We have less free-will than we like to think. If someone is drawn to painting but has never picked up a brush, does it mean it is wrong to try? I think not. Just take the path you’re interested in and see where it leads. If you don’t like it, don’t be a healer! Research Chinese medicine schools and join. Or not! Up to you at the end of the day.

Damo Mitchell has great stuff for fairly cheap. Checkout his YouTube for a bunch of free explanations. Books are some of the best you find on the subject as well. There is some stuff missing though. Nathan Brine also explains Neidan well. Replenish and refine the 3 treasures. Shed all attachment and desire. Cultivate the elixir by fusing Xing and Ming. Cultivate the embryo through nourishment. Different lineages have different methods. If it builds the elixir or the embryo it is Neidan. If it doesn’t, it is not. Qigong is not internal alchemy just so you are aware. If it is true QiGong, you are working with post-heaven Qi. Alchemy is pre-heaven. You need a lineage and teacher to truly practice Neidan but you can dip your toes into the Qigong, Neigong world pretty easily through an online course. I would suggest Qigong/Neigong along with a martial art. These are solid foundations.

Agreed. Could just be a condition and not breathing technique. I’d imagine it would be hard to sit and practice anchoring the breath with intense pain. Qi gong and things like this could help but it may be more of a traditional doctor situation that needs treatment. Massage, acupuncture, physical therapy, medical treatment, etc. Hope all goes well

Just read Damo Mitchell’s book on Neigong. Find a teacher that teaches a similar curriculum.