MetaDao

Jing to Qi refers to the refinement of the dense(lower frequency) state of Jing to the more subtle(higher frequency) state of Qi. It is not a direct conversion in the sense that you lose the properties of the Jing. In other words, you don't lose all the aspects included within the Jing, like vitality. In fact, your overall health greatly improves. Jing to Qi refinement simply means that you upgrade or refine the energy you have to a higher frequency. They are the same substance in different states. Ice and water. When an ice cube melts into water, do you lose any of the substance? No. If you refreeze that melted water under optimal conditions, it would form the same sized ice cube. Again, I think its necessary to clarify whether you are referring to the post-heaven Jing to Qi Refinement. I am aware you're a fan of Damo. His system talks of "stilling" the post-heaven jing before melting the post-heaven Jing to post-heaven Qi, changing the physiology of the body in the process. This, to me, is Neigong because it is a post-heaven internal process aimed at preparing the body for pre-heaven processes. Errors. The most common error for men, and the hardest obstacle to overcome is desire. You can have the best methods in existence, but if you cannot conquer desire, the Jing to Qi refinement will not occur in the correct manner. The most common obstacle in general is diet. After that, consistent daily practice combined with overcoming desire and eating correctly. Besides the errors in the practice itself, those are the main obstacles. There may in fact be truth to the fact that alchemical sex practices exist, but they serve particular purposes in the process. You can't change the fact that desire leads to loss of Yuan Jing. Some loss is okay if there is a purpose behind it. Again, all of that process I described is the refinement of post-heaven jing to post-heaven qi. The refinement of pre-heaven Jing is where you move into Neidan. First off, before you do any refinement, you replenish the pre-heaven Jing. This has many purposes, but I won't list them here. Only once the Yuan Jing has reached its peak capacity does it get refined. Once you refine the Yuan Jing to Yuan Qi, your physiology changes. Certain channels are opened, and certain ones are closed, resulting in a change in our desires. There isn't a constant battle of actively suppressing desire anymore. This is because the channel responsible for sexual desire closes off. Rather than converting to post-heaven Jing, the pre-heaven Jing, for the most-part, converts to pre-heaven Qi. You still have enough post-heaven Jing, but there is no wastage. Errors and obstacles are the same as they are for the Neigong process. The Neidan process is just deeper and more involved. There are many similarities between the two processes as both are dealing with the refinement of Jing to Qi. However, the conversion of Yuan Jing to Yuan Qi is a much deeper and more involved process with greater benefits.

Now, I see why you have errors in your understanding Those articles and texts have tons of inaccuracies. Just find a teacher with the methods. Follow them. Then you will have the discernment to tell what is true vs what is false. Not trying to be rude, but people who write things like this often do not even have methods and all they are really doing is spreading misinformation

The justification is that at a certain stage breathing stops entirely. This requires no breathing method to achieve. I don’t know where you are getting your neidan knowledge but it’s clear you don’t have a teacher. Why are you people posting here nonstop, quoting translations as if you know things? Just let yourself be guided by those who actually understand what they are talking about. If you don’t have an authentic Neidan teacher, you cannot start teaching on here. I am telling you that yes, there are breathing methods in certain lineages but they are not required in the slightest to reach the elixir. The elixir can be reached without any guided intention of the breath. Certain traditions use guided intention of the breath to stabilize breathing qualities. That’s a different method for similar results. When you use blanket statements like Neidan requires the use of guided breathing, you are contradicting basic facts and becoming deluded. Just because you can read Chinese texts about Neidan or Daoism does not mean you know anything about the practice. You must forget all of what you think you know and just find a teacher with the right methods. It’s that simple. Many of those texts have inaccuracies. I can’t explain it, other than it must be the fate of some of you to just parrot texts on here without ever striving for the actual methods

That’s not true lol

Correct, except Ming can be changed to a certain extent using Ming gong

Use some discernment to figure out what is wrong with this sentence please Firstly, how is Neidan a Qigong method? Secondly, there are Neidan lineages without a single breathing method. Breath changes automatically when certain stages are reached.

In that case, it is the Ming that is different. Yuan Shen remains the same. Yuan Shen simplified is awareness. A blind man is still aware. A person born with no legs is still aware. It is their Ming that is different than fully functioning humans. So, humans are not all the same. We may have the same ingredients that make up our being, but the quality of these ingredients varies from person to person. Does this make those with better ingredients more important though? In capitalistic society, people seem to value those that are ‘superior’ on a higher scale. Yet Dao does not. You might then say, well what if Jesus is born again?! If Jesus is still in the reincarnation cycle and there truly will be a ‘second coming’, surely the person with Jesus’s soul is more important than a man born in poverty without any legs who can contribute nothing to society. Wrong. They are equally unimportant. Again, this brings me to the point. Does spiritual growth really matter? Or is it simply a path we take when we grow bored of mundane living?

Are we though? Are you sure? Who is we? What makes us the same? The fact that we are conscious? We still have differences. How can we be the same if we are different? Our personal natures are all different. Our pre-heaven nature is the thing that is the same.

Awareness is the thing that experiences. You is thing that realizes

That’s realization. Even then, you cannot realize such a thing or a similar such thing without experiencing it. I think such ideas are both true and false at the same time. Sure, we are all made of the same ‘stuff’, but that does not mean we are all the same. Now, the labels of important and unimportant. Those, I feel like, can be transcended. It does not mean we are all the same. It means we are all on the same level of importance. Sage or otherwise. Of course your mind will reject this. How could an earth immortal be just as important as a homeless man? To the normal, ape like mind, it seems like that cannot be true. To the Sage, it is.

@freeformAll facts. No cap. On god It is strange talking with those who have reached the elixir stage because they are still apes, it seems to me. Maybe just a bit more evolved, but they can still have bias, let’s say talking about other teachers for example. In an attempt to classify the unclassifiable, it seems to me that Shen Xian is the true stage where our inner ape finally disappears, as there is no mind. Yet, I cannot comprehend why a Shen Xian would downgrade itself to become ape again. It is a mystery that I guess doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. In fact, why does creating harmony between heaven and earth even matter if at some point you transcend even the concepts of heaven and earth? If there are many universes, what’s the special thing about this particular one? It would seem that there is nothing special about this universe at all. I’m not just talking about the physical universe but the formless as well. I thought I practiced for a grand reason. I will perfect myself one day at a time and preserve the path of alchemy without bias to create harmony between heaven and earth to allow more humans to achieve Yang Shen again. To achieve freedom. Yet, I am not so sure. Sometimes I wonder if slipping back into the tides of fate and normalcy would really be so bad. We already have Shen Xian. What’s one more? We already have Heavenly immortals. What’s one more? In the end, I am still left wondering, why practice at all? Sure, I can say I practice for the betterment of all and to help others gain freedom. It may in fact be partially true. I can say I practice to understand both Heaven and Earth so that I may come to perceive how to create harmony between the two to help all of humanity. Yet, when I understand more, why does this particular universe even matter? I don’t matter at all, therefore, it should get along well enough without me. So, why practice? I have no interest in siddhi. My health will get along well enough till I die. Maybe I should just smoke weed, party, and fuck like a normal ape. Is that so bad? Instead, here I am. Still practicing. Am I choosing to practice or is it still fate that controls me? I am unsure. I guess I’ll just keep swimming and see where it leads

Oh god no, I am not the second coming. That’d be quite awful. Yes, every student needs a teacher no matter how much discernment you have. That’s because the methods don’t simply appear in your head. Also, a teacher is able to see your energetic state when you lack the ability. I do not think anyone can jump to Yang Shen without a teacher. Trust me, I won’t be posting here much longer. Quite honestly, I just like interacting with @freeform He is going to reach the elixir in this life.

Yes, I am confused on what’s funny about my post, as devices do in fact exist that ‘generate’ post-heaven Yin Qi. If you found one and could feel it, you would know it exists. Also, there are many inaccuracies in this post, but those with discernment can see them so I won’t point them out

Yes, but what is your motivation for pointing such a thing out? Is it jealousy, envy, or intention to help? Only you can answer that. I know where I am at on that scale. It is the confidence and self-belief in knowing that I can reach the end of the path while also knowing I lack ability in this specific lifetime. The scale is useful, sure. But only you can tell where you’re at. Not someone who judges you through a screen I can discern my own placement, but thank you for trying to help 🙏 It is a real quality, you are correct. I am not joking. I can honestly tell when a spiritual truth is presented in front of me. It is a deep inner knowing that arises.

That’s why it’s mostly method. That’s basically what I do lol

With discernment

Qi machines are real. But, no I have not mastered Neidan. Never claimed that. There are mechanical devices that somehow generate post heaven yin qi. I bet you can imagine the uses for this in a bionic arm

Contrary to what you believe, that is not why I post on here, and I do not mindlessly regurgitate. Much of what I say is taken from a base understanding given to me, but it is also in my own words. It is not because I like sounding like I know a lot. It’s because I believe it is helpful to people to explain things well.

Yes, I see what you’re saying, however, somehow I can usually tell whether something is true or not fairly easily. And I only really post what I believe to be mostly true. As you can see, even many people considered ‘high level’ can have inaccuracies and fall onto the scale you mention. We must have discernment to tell true from false for there is in fact an ultimate truth.

I haven’t, but I’ll check it out. And, sure. You could make that point. Would you rather I not say anything and let others inaccuracies stand just so I feel like my ability matches my understanding?

I’m not sure how you came to this conclusion, but I’m pretty sure this is wrong as well. First off, in my definition, moving from spiritual immortal to heavenly immortal is Neidan. This would place Neidan’s creation back before the beginning of the universe. This universe was created by a heavenly immortal. That heavenly immortal was most likely a spiritual immortal before that. So, Neidan, in the spiritual sense, has been here for a long long time. Now, if you’re discussing humanity, sure, the creation of the elixir could be more modern than thousands of years, however, even if all humans were born at the Yang Shen level, there is still alchemical work to be done to rise from Yang Shen to spiritual immortal and actualize Yang body. In pre history, Neidan still existed. It may just not have been necessary to transmute yin Shen to Yang Shen in earlier Yugas. Upon the creation of the universe, there is a spiritual big bang of sorts where Spiritual immortals come into existence. Neidan exists even here. The process of moving from spiritual immortal to heavenly immortal is still Neidan.

I am confused by your definition of Neidan, as I am pretty sure it’s impossible to separate internal alchemy from spiritual growth and call it a ‘technology.’ For example, fusing the Refined Yuan Shen and Yuan Qi to form the elixir is alchemical and definitely spiritual. Going from Earth immortal to spiritual immortal, that is still Neidan in my definition. Most definitely a spiritual process. Not to mention Spiritual Immortal to Heavenly Immortal

Strange. I think the opposite. It is more ancient than people think, dating back not hundreds of years but thousands. There was an ancient era prior to written history where Neidan existed. The entire Chinese language was developed out of an alchemical understanding. Not to mention other parts of the physical universe containing things similar to Neidan. It is much more ancient than people believe

Is it against divine law too? Hehhe

Spiritual immortality in order to spread Dao to all living things. As you transmute your being, you’re also presented the opportunity to create harmony between Heaven and Earth. Realization is simply a milestone along the path. It is not about freeing yourself from the reincarnation cycle either. That’s another milestone. People approaching the arts from that perspective are selfish.