Khamasie

Hi All, As I am about to start practicing the Kunlun system it says something like: ```Do not combine these practices with Fire path practices, as this system is water path. Fire and water path do not mix very well together.``` Then it goes on and explains that the micro cosmic orbit might be a fire derivation or water depending on the direction and start of the practice. What are the clear differences to recognize if a practice belongs to a fire or water path? So looking at the practices I mostly do, which are water which are fire? And would some of these be "incapable" with each other? I am practicing some of Bruce Frantzis, some of Andrew Nugenthead, and even mixing in some asanas and pranayama. And So-Ham meditation. Lastly, rarely practicing but sometimes: Reiki. Bruce Frantzis practices are 'Dragon and Tiger medical qiqong'. Andrew Nugenthead practices are '8 sensitivities' (manifesting the 8 movements of qi inside the body, in particular order, so to get familiar with these as an acupuncturist practicioner). Asanas, mostly the Rhishikesh serie. Pranayama, Nadi Shodhana & Kapalabhati. So-Ham meditation, ... Reiki, starts with a visualization meditation to ground with the Earth energies and after the Cosmic energies. After it would be 'letting go' and flowing the energy. Also, mostly while doing qi qong I am mostly ending with some spinal breathing, and /or micro cosmic orbit, and guiding qi to the lower dantian. I am not a very dedicated practioner, but I've not really noticed any of the combinations being incompatible with each other, and so far I like the change - switching techniques. Also, I do feel some channels are opening up which I inherently though to be a sign of having gathered a good rhythm in practice. For example I might combine 'Dragon and Tiger medical qiqong' with '8 sensitivities' and spinal breathing. Or, '8 sensitivies' plus spinal breathing and finishing with So-Ham. I mostly do keep the yoga practices separated from the qiqong as here I did feel keeping them separate helped steady the mind in a certain field. I do notice that yoga practices and the qiqong practices bring about a different state to blossom. But since I couldn't decide with what to go I just not decided and kept on practicing both. Thanks!

As mentioned by @Cleansox. But as complementary and a reminder, as you probably already suggested this, let your friend have a good daily routine with good foods and good drinks (clean water esp in the midday and evening). And let this routine just have a practice your friend prefers at around the same time every day (maybe not weekends), which will include standing positions. Go slow and steady. Tamas I come accros is mostly due to bad ingestion of something or things. Irregular sleeping patterns, watching too much television, jadiejadiejadie. And mostly with Tamas you only want to bring about 1 or 2 efforts which are doable. Giving too many changes at once will not be accepted / can not (?) By somebody with a lot of Tamas. If there is depression think about compassion, tell them it sucks but it is totally fine (hence also not giving too much of a change). Somewhere in your friend there is their own path, most of the times you can not really change that or explain that, however providing warmth and acceptance while continuing your own path and caring about them without trying too much to help gives them the freedom to decide for themselves. Not sure of this above clicks with you, good luck and have fun with your friend (just as play, talk, sing etc). It is all good, even if it seems blurry for a while.

Not sure about this... If it can not be gained, nor can be lost... what the heck are we all doing here? I think it would be fair to say that there just might be a possibility that enlightenment in our discussion can be any new perception gained. If a completely new perception is gained, lots of its intensiveness is due to novelty, which could explain why people experience it as "the next step". The novelty of any new perception also increases awareness (at least has the potential). With that increased awareness you might notice things (patterns, relations, source, etc) which in your previous perception became so 'daily life' that you missed them. But @old3bob, do agree about the grace part etc. In the end, I do say enlightenment is something to be gained, as to how can we end up without it? If this would not be the case, why would we search for it, talk about it, and figure it is "the best thing". The only reason why I can think of it is labeled as such "it can not be gained" is because of the grace part. Well, I can think of one more and that is because it is the place where the individual disperses. As then basically the individual gains nothing as it releases itself and (for the sake of keeping it a sentence:) the individual coming to the non-individual part experiences that the non-individual part always has this experience. The individual (or experience of the individual) has definitely lost enlightenment the moment the individual breaks free in any form from the wholeness. Lost means, not able to find it, right? I mean, you can lose your keys in your pocket, yet have them but not knowing where they are. Also, it might just be helpful to realize we are putting labels on it as it is in our nature to do so. Although the label might never capture it, at least we are honest to see that anything we say about it is our own interpretation and we can not escape putting a label on it, even when we say "can not be gained" / "can not be labeled" our whole conveying is with labels. @old3bob just using your post to follow up and add to the discussion. Thanks. Normally I would refrain from discussing this subject as there comes a part where all discussing just vaporizes in "non-duality, non-individualism, non-ego, illusions, etc" and there is nothing to really discuss anymore. That is where I feel an individual should return and say: "well okay... where is the tea?".

Are there any seasoned acupuncturists around who I can ask some in-depth questions in a pm? I tried to get answers to these questions from a well-known acupuncturist but he kind of said that he rather explain these things in class/course. Due to Corona, I will not be able to see him this year but I would like to already make progress on these subjects.

I have not been taken meds etc. But, just maybe as a reference. My detoxification process also depends on the type of practice I do (just started Kunlun and got a different detox). Mostly with "proper" practice, I would get this way sticky sweat. Like if apple juice or something is sticking to my hands. I've been having this (and only started) for the last 3 months, but my practice was not regular. And when reflecting on it now it seemed like the body has a lot more instore but because I've not fixed my diet (my family line has a very sensitive body to all substances) it will not let it all out and really open the tap to flush. What is happening now is that I'm slowly going towards a healthier diet too as my body detoxes slowly. Meanwhile, some emotional and mental problems, which ofc have a huge vote in what I pick as a diet, started to smooth out. I've lately only looked at the future prospect of practice tbh till reading this post. But letting this information sink in remembers me that detoxification can take long and it can come in waves. E.g. when emotional and mental locks are present the body will not open up in once. Which is totally fine. As your health is also interwoven with the mundane life sometimes it might just be nice to take it slow get a step higher, integrate the changes in the mundane, step forward, etc. 3-4 months to detox air brush, that is freaking amazing to me (almost becoming jealous xD). Also that sounds like a ready person. Good luck

@Earl Grey, ah. I just practice like 6 of his 7 movements of 'Dragon & Tiger medical'. Which needed it a bit of tweaking to get it work well, but I do like it as a warming up. Thought it was quite difficult tbh to get it right, it listens very narrowly.

BKF is? Bruce (Kumar) Frantzis?

@Earl Grey, interesting. I keep this in mind as I continue. Thanks. @dwai, interesting. If you would create bins that would be used for "this is pre-dominantly water, this is fire" what would be the categorizations on in your opinion? And great, I thought the same at least about the asanas. But nice to see you would say the pranayamas would also not interfere with this. Although, after reading all of the above, I'll just try to just stick with Max's system for 3 months as recommended. @steve , yes Christensen. I would agree with mixing too much robs us of the deeper experience. "Jack of all trades...". But after having a set back I wanted to taste more and explore some horizons before committing to a system again. Not sure when, but it would be soon. Thanks. @freeform, @Earl Grey I would certainly agree. Yogic and Daoist practices seem to bring about something very different. At least to me (now, in the beginning). Though trailing on this would me get pondering on the effect of the mind. Interesting enough the first practices of Max's Kunlun got me into a state that yoga (& Reiki) had brought me when I was not practicing any Daoist practices. But I kind of feel that has more to do with the mind as the practice itself. Apart from the practice, my mind is engaging into similar behavior and patterns as I am starting this practice as it was, back then, when I was doing just yoga. So, instead of trailing off too much, but using this, how much would you say the scene/atmosphere of the tradition and anticipation (readiness to go beyond what you experience with just being ready for whatever comes) by yourself, would leap the differences in practice? As, if there are differences in practice, the mind, how it goes about practicing, seems to have a strong effect on the 'result' of the practice. Would the mind not erase any differences in practice on the 'final call'? And thereby, before the 'final call', already create a different state as it experiences these practices as different (different traditions, different culture with different past and future, different intent of picking a certain practice, etc)? Thanks all, and yes I know better commit to one system, I've read some other threads here and I agree, and I will take that advice (eventually). But I don't feel it is this time yet - just not ready to marry a system as I've not come across something which is alive, sincere, and around in the neighborhood. Because when committing, and diving deeper, I do not feel like doing this alone. Although it might turn out that, eventually, going alone will be the case as there is not much that I feel to resonate with around here. But, I kind of am interested in knowing what people would see as clear water and clear fire paths. Still am. So, from the above the main conclusion e.g. starting with @Earl Grey it is mostly all the same? Would that be correct? And it is just that a system is a system is a system. And you should follow the recipe instead of mixing ingredients? And, as @dwai says, it has to do with energy directed upwards or downwards (which makes sense interpreting the labels)? Thanks all, great responses.

Thanks RiverSnake. I've seen a thread here which mentioned similar things. Although, some say it is nothing special. Interesting how different (serious, as I presume) practitioners can get very different results. I've had a practice, not so long ago, that also generated a lot of energy. The practice itself was, as far as I know, not at all aimed at generating energy but instead, it was aimed at creating awareness for acupuncturists. I think I managed to come up with some tactics to deal with intense amounts of energy. V curious now to start Kunlun and also start testing these xD.

Hi All, Having gone through some turbulent spiritual experiences during puberty, it took me some time to figure out what and how to progress further. ATM doing a combinatory practice some yoga and chi kung. I have some experience in shamanic practices. I came to the forum as I am about to experiment with Kunlun and decided that it might be nice to stick for a bit and maybe join some conversations. Will see. Thanks for having me. Khamasie