Cobie

Comparing the MWD B characters with the WB, I found meaningful differences in 3 places: 不 上 賢 bu4 shang4 xian2 ~~> 不 尚 [ shang4 - to value ] 賢 使 民 不 亂 shi3 min2 bu4 luan4 ~~> 使 民心 [ min2xin1 - will of the people ] 不 亂； 弗 為 而 已 則 无 不 治 矣 fu2 wei2 er2 yi3 ze2 wu2 bu4 zhi4 yi3 ~~> 為 也。為 無 為，則 無 不 治。

I don’t think the DDJ addresses the ‘ruler’.

Yes, that’s what I noticed too.

Exactly, I totally agree with everything you say here. Yes, 德 ‘virtue’ is the ‘core value’ and comes first. Indeed, the DDJ is people-oriented, not cosmology-oriented. That’s exactly what I noticed too when I started reading the DDJ a bit from the transcripts. Thank you for your reply. : )

I like to think so. Welcome to the forum, great intro. : )

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Sounds great, like you have a lot of experience but still keep an open mind. Welcome to the forum. : )

Changing the text instead of enduring the agonies of changing your own conviction. (Paul R Goldin)

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You previously advised to use the “silk book” https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/53587-paul-golding/?do=findComment&comment=981960 Looking at http://www.daoisopen.com/downloads/CC3.pdf , seems you use the Wang Bi characters. Why not use 馬王堆帛書 (Mawangdui silk book)? Text B is complete.

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If you are going to ignore the characters, then ‘blah, blah, gurgle, fart’ will do as a translation; and “who is to say that this isn't exactly what Laozi had in mind”, he is not here anymore to comment.

LeGuin is one of the 4 writers Paul Golding criticised in his book.

Henricks is a highly regarded Sinologist. Are you sure you have the credentials to call his translation “un-insightful”?

Possibly stretching it a bit seeing the characters? [line 4] Knowing this, wise rulers 是以 聖人 之 治 也 shi4yi3 sheng4ren2 zhi1 zhi4 ye3 < hence | wise person | his | rule > [line 5-6] fill bellies over minds and 虛 亓 心 xu1 qi2 xin1 < empty | their | mind > 實 亓 腹 shi2 qi2 fu4 < fill | their | belly > [line 7-8] strengthen bones over ambition. 弱 亓 志 ruo4 qi2 zhi4 < weaken | their | ambition > 強 亓 骨 qiang2 qi2 gu3 < strengthen | their | bones > [line 9] They free people from desire with simplicity, and 恆 使 民 无 知，无 欲 也 heng2 shi3 min2 wu2 zhi1, wu2 yu4 ye3 < habitual | cause | people | lack | knowledge | lack | desire > [line 10-11] protect them from hawkers of knowledge that seek to complicate things. 使 夫 知，不 敢 shi3 fu1 zhi1，bu4 gan3 < cause | men | knowledge | not to | dare > 弗 為 而 已 則 fu2 wei2 er2 yi3 ze2 <(GP, implicit OBJ) not … this | do | but | stop | (GP, VB conjunction. ‘If’ VB - phrase 1. ‘then’ VB - phrase 2. ) if … then > 无 不 治 矣 wu2 bu4 zhi4 yi3 < nothing | not | rule; solve (difficulties) | (GP)> ~~~

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Greetings to you too. Welcome to the forum. : )

Hello AKD. That’s a great introduction, thank you. Your quest resonates with me. I recognise a lot in what you say, I too knew already as a child that I had no interest in “life’s to-do list”. I too find “reactivity” a great teacher, and am interested in “own experience” (my own or the experience of others). Welcome to the forum. : )

Sounds like you have a lot of experience, welcome to the forum. : )

Welcome to the forum, enjoy it and your tea!

I have the same problem.