Cobie

Yes, definitely, one cannot read Classical without having an interpretation in mind.

@liminal_luke Read it just in time then. Made sense to me. You’re a good egg.

Same here, I left my parental family age 16 and hardly ever saw them again.

A clean house is the sign of a broken computer. (unknown)

CD's time table for the history of the TTC

Be as "mental" as you like, but no one is allowed to make changes to the orignal set of characters.

“predates”. The quatrains go way back, long before even the time of Laozi. (The Book of Chuang Tzu, trans. Martin Palmer)

The traditional system of tetrasyllables and quatrains, predates the fourth- to third-century BC additions creating longer lines. (The Book of Chuang Tzu, trans. Martin Palmer)

No. The breaks are not up to the reader. The original DDJ used the traditional system of tetrasyllables and quatrains.

No. To be 'invisible' does not necessarily imply it does not exist; and to exist does not necessarily imply it's visible. E.g. an object that allows light to pass through, is not visible (e.g. glass).

Substituing you would get: 3. Invisible, was a name given to Tao at the origin of all things. 4. Visible, was a name given to Tao as the mother of all things. imo 'origin' and 'mother' both refer to the same, so makes no sense to me.

3. Invisible, was a name given to Tao … 4. Visible, was a name given to Tao … Does it say that anywhere else in the DDJ?

Yes I agree. Nobody can know; it’s 自然 (zi4 ran2) unknowable

start of ch. 25 by CD 1. 有物混成 2. 先天地生 3. 寂兮寥兮 4. 獨立而不改 5. 周行而不殆 6. 可以為天地母 7. 吾不知其名 8. 強字之曰"道" 1. There was a thing formed by chaos; 2. Before heaven and earth were born; 3. Soundless and formless; 4. Independent and stable; 5. Continuously cycling but never exhausted; 6. It may be the mother of heaven and earth. 7. I don't know its name. 8. I'm reluctant to call it "Tao".

Trying to find places in the DDJ with descriptions of Dao. Ch. 25: start of ch. 25 by Henricks (G) 又状虫成， 先天地生， 敚[糸禾]， 独立而不亥， 可以为天下母。 未智（知）其名， 字之曰道。 There is a form that developed from primordial chaos That was born before heaven and earth. Silent and still, it stands on its own and does not change. … It can be regarded as the mother of all under heaven. Not yet knowing its name, We refer to it as the Dao. start of ch. 25 by Henricks (MWD) 1. There was something formed out of chaos, 2. That was born before Heaven and Earth. 3. Quiet and Still! Pure and deep! 4. It stands on its own and does not change. 5. It can be regarded as the mother of Heaven and Earth. 6. I do not yet know its name: 7. I "style" it "the Way."

無 (wu2) and 有 (you3) did not have the meanings “invisible” and “visible”.

The original is in vertical lines without breaks. MWD ch. 1 道 可 道 也 非 恆 道 也 名 可 名 也 非 恆 名 也 无 名 萬 物 之 始 也 有 名 萬 物 之 母 也 故 恆 无 欲 也 以 觀 其 眇 恆 有 欲 也 以 觀 其 所 噭 兩 者 同 出 異 名 同 胃 玄 之 有 玄 眾 眇 之 門

I should have put my wuji/taiji post here! I have a feeling I am going to get the most facepalms ever recorded on TDB’s history. An all time winner of this thread.

The MWD is complete

It is a corruption of the original script. You can use punctuation in the English translation, or add a commentary.

The older MWD text has 萬物 (wan4 wu4). There’s no 天地 (tian1 di4) in ch. 1

There is no indication at all in the script that there is a pause here.

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