Ajay0

Cannabis is the only drug sanctioned in certain sects of Hinduism connected with Shaivism. It is also associated with lower addiction levels compared to alcohol and nicotine. It can help as an aid to meditation in certain settings, and provided it is supplemented by meditation and hard austerities. This is the doctrine followed by Naga Sadhus, but what do westerners have for the same ! They do not have any holistic theological doctrine for which the drug becomes a stepping stone rather than an obstacle. Even snake venom has therapeutic properties when it is properly used , and it is in this manner that the Naga sadhus use cannabis. Well, they have my sympathies. But it is hard to meditate and be aware or mindful, when your mind is filled with cravings for drugs, and without the necessary yama niyamas ( rules and regulations attending meditation practice). Lol. Advaitan and vedic philosophies are time-tested philosophies milleniums old. Many ancient, medieval and modern enlightened masters around the world have testified to the validity of these philosophies from the vantage point of enlightenment. The state of enlightenment is beyond all psychological states. That is why western psychology still does not have a clue on how to treat depression effectively because they are stuck in the mind and psychology. It is like a gardener tending to the branches and leaves instead of the roots. Tao Te Ching, Dhammapada , Upanishads were created by enlightened masters who were able to perceive existence from the vantage point of enlightenment. Anandamayi Ma and Shivayogini Matha did not receive much education beyond the third or fourth grade in those times. But after enlightenment, they attained wisdom and knowledge through experiential understanding and communicated the same. They did not spend any effort in attaining intellectual understanding, but they were more wiser and knowledgeable than the scholars and pundits around who used to come in large numbers to learn from them and clarify their own doubts. An analogy is that of successfully climbing to the summit of the mountain. You can then see the view clearly instead of relying on written accounts of the same. This is why the sayings of these enlightened sages are quite similar even though they may be placed in different points in space and time.

Well, I know of yogis who have taken drugs and alcohol in large quantities without being the least affected or loss of sobriety. They did not develop cravings for the same, or lose their mental clarity. But this is not the norm for general humanity, for whom the chances for addiction, anti-social behavior, poor physical and mental health and other issues is high. Well, there are yogis like Shirdi Sai Baba and Bharat Thakur who smoked hookah and cigars to relax without any of the negative benefits. They were perfectly okay if they did not have the same.

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Unconsciousness or body-consciousness is the term used generally by Advaitan or nondual masters. I have elaborated on this theme in this thread of mine... Every vice is but a strong desire in the form of craving or aversion, and all vices like lust, greed, hatred and consequent crimes like rape, paedophilia, robbery, murder can be traced back to such strong desires. There have been criminals who have known such activities to be ethically wrong, but have acted upon them insensibly due to the emotional energy of the desires driving them. They were repentant later on and seemed to be manipulated by strong desires they were unable to discipline within themselves, at that point in time. The legal term 'Crimes of passion' is a popular expression or phrase used frequently and widely. The 'passion' implies the strong emotional energy of the desire in the form of cravings or aversions, that may cloud the reasoning and clarity of the intellect. Hence the reason why the term 'unconscious' is used. It can also be used to signify lack of awareness or mindfulness. 'Pure consciousness' is a term regularly used in Advaita and Hinduism to denote consciousness cleansed of all vasanas or psychological impressions that are the seeds of these cravings and aversions. It is associated with the natural state and enlightenment.

Drug addicts, whether Indian or Western , is under the influence of his or her cravings for drugs, and hence is manipulated by unconscious tendencies and is a puppet in their hands. It is a form of slavery and is bound to result in reactivity due to the emotional energy of the desires involved . Those who smoke or take drugs/intoxicants without the least craving for them at any moment, are those who can take away any positive benefits they have to offer. They cannot be called addicts, though.

Smoking dope does not bring enlightenment, and anyone with a proper understanding of Hindu and Buddhist philosophy can figure it out. If there are 'sadhus' that sit around all day smoking dope, they are drug addicts and not ascetics. But judging them by photographs taken by some western tourist is not correct as well, as it does not cover the whole aspect of the austerities they may perform, and the religious rules and regulations they follow supplementing the cannabis they take, which is sanctioned by religion, and is proven to be less addictive than nicotine or alcohol. The naga sadhus, who is the main sect which consume cannabis, lead a spartan life, devoted to lifelong celibacy, high levels of selfcontrol, eat only once a day, sleep on the bare earth , perform ancient physical austerities similar to that of modern commando training, and have a warrior tradition that would make any army on earth proud. They are known to walk stark naked even in cold weather, meditate amongst crocodiles and venomous snakes, and perform other feats impossible for western drug addicts to emulate. This is the part where scientific materialism comes to the picture. As per ancient Hindu philosophy , pure unitary consciousness is the fundamental substratum of existence, and all matter, energy, space, time and causation are its diverse manifestations. The sayings of two female enlightened masters will help to understand this better...

If they are blissed by their own nature, I would consider them more successful than unhappy kings and billionaires who depend on external factors and intoxicants for their highs and pleasure. If they are not joyful by their own nature, it obviously means they are in a deluded state and their spiritual and material aspirations have ended in failure, due to poor knowledge and drive. Meditation induced bliss is different from that of the temporary euphoria involved in facebook and video/computer games, TV, WWF and cinemas. The roman rulers brought about the colosseum games to dumb down the population and citizenry so that they will overlook faulty administration policies and corruption, and be impressed by the state's power to the point of meek submissiveness. Modern governments do similar things as well with similar success rates.

Is the bliss of intrinsic nature or is it that of drugs ? The drug users are not enlightened, and are not exemplars of right action , as you put it. They cannot be considered sadhu (ascetic) or yogi. Because a sadhu is one who is austere and practice austerities. What is the austerity involved in easy and superficial usage of drugs ! A yogi is one who is yoked to the higher Self through the yogic methods. Drug use addiction only means more cravings and unconsciousness, and greater non-alignment with the Self. This is actually an unnatural state.

My understanding is that all human beings have an intuitive feeling that bliss and joy is their birthright, due to the innate potential of enlightenment or Buddhahood within them. Not getting it, they are obviously bound to look into external intoxicants to give themselves a high, even if it is temporary and followed by misery(hangover/comedown). Pleasure seeking through drugs, alcohol, sex, food, all becomes refuges and forms of escapism then. Western philosophy and psychology has not yet understood the phenomenon of enlightenment due to a short civilizational timeline, so it becomes a bigger problem over there. Philosophies like nihilism, hedonism and scientific materialism gives the thumbs up to get into perverse pleasure seeking modes as well, even if it crosses the boundaries of immorality and vice. As Sadhguru himself says, "When there is no joy in you, you become a pleasure seeker. " So, all this interest and dependencies on external intoxicants and pleasures means that one has not yet accessed the natural bliss within oneself, free, everlasting, inexpensive, healthy and superior to all known external pleasures. All these dependencies thus become medals of weakness, shallowness and ignorance the dependent reveals to those around him. And the delusional even exhibit them with pride.

In this article, Ram Dass ( Richard Alpert) described an experience he had when the enlightened Neem Karoli swallowed all his drugs in one go ... https://www.ramdass.org/ram-dass-gives-maharaji-the-yogi-medicine/

I think this issue is addressed in my thread on Sadhguru's talk on drugs... Unfortunately, instead of Sadhgurus content, people were more interested in his wealth and fame, and hence the thread got derailed with posts not connected with the theme. This happened with other threads on the subject, and so the reason I came up with new threads to make a fresh start. Hopefully, posters will talk on the content, and not derail them with unconnected topics. They can create separate threads on the unconnected topics which they wish to highlight.

I am sorry if these threads cause mental agitation in you due to aversion to anti-drug themes. Both cravings and aversions, as strong desires, cause mental agitation. By cultivating awareness and mental equanimity, one can transcend such desires and be immune to their influence. Also drug addiction, trafficking and consequent heavy violence is a complex problem the world is facing at the moment, so it is important to pay enough attention to the issue that is due to it, so as to effect a solution to the matter. Trivialising it would be synonymous with fuelling the issue, imho. As Winston Churchill stated, “Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.”

By 'fresh water' I meant meditation and enlightenment induced bliss. If you are enlightened, why do you have to join a cult or teacher ! The bliss of enlightenment is also much superior to temporary euphorias, folowed by misery (hangovers/comedowns), of drugs and alcohol. If you are not enlightened, you can join a Guru or spiritual practice exercising one's judgement after due diligence. This can sort out issues related to fake gurus or groomers/recruiters. Even Buddha himself was condemned as a fake Guru during his life-time, so it is important to do one's due diligence in this regard, and not go by opinions. The purpose of the external Guru is to tune one to the internal Guru within, after getting rid of much of the unconscious layers and vasanas or psychological impressions which blur the Self. Once the internal Guru is tuned to and intuition takes over, the external Guru's role is over. Yes, attachment to the Guru can become a problem. If the Guru is honest and have developed the disciple adequately, he or she will know when to let go so that the disciple advances to enlightenment.

Alcohol and drug abuse can result in brain damage, as per scientific research. https://mpowerwellness.com/brain-damage-from-drugs/ Similar articles can be found here... https://drugabuse.com/addiction/health-issues/neurological-risks/ https://www.thefreedomcenter.com/can-drugs-cause-permanent-brain-damage/

The enlightened sage Meher Baba has also emphasized the futility of using drugs to perceive the truth or attain the naturally blissful state of enlightenment... https://avatarmeherbabatrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/God-in-a-Pill.pdf Some of his sayings on this subject...

It is good to be reminded of the basics so that people will exercise due caution . People associate drugs with spirituality, which is an incorrect perception, considering its correlation with higher crime rates, rampant violence due to drug trafficking, regression in professional and personal lives, lower physical and mental health, as well as greater cravings and addictive behavior which makes one more unconscious and away from enlightenment and the much superior bliss of the natural state. As I stated earlier, it is like a thirsty person being content with sewer water when there is a fresh water lake nearby. But his tunnel vision prevents him from considering the lake nearby and even grates on those who point out the lake. My threads are there to provide perspective , that's all.

I live in India.

But he took the heavy dosage of drugs after understanding Ram Dass's interest in drugs, and to show him that it would not affect NKB in the least, as he was blissful by his own intrinsic enlightened state. It was a teaching, and not an acid trip.

Well, what can I say ? I am glad that knights in shining armor like yourself, Nungali and Taoist Woods are there to protect the ladies from the bad guys.

Guru is an ancient sanskrit word meaning remover of darkness ( unconsciousness). It is an ancient tradition in India and the Buddha himself was a Guru and enlightened master. In the ancient epics Ramayana and Mahabharatha, you can see the Avatars Rama and Krishna having Gurus like Vasishta and Sandeepani. The yoga vasistha is a famous treatise on the discussion between prince Rama and his Guru Vasistha on various issues touching worldly and spiritual life. The Ashtavakra Gita is a similar treatise on the dialogue and discussion between King Janaka and his Guru Ashtavakra leading to his enlightenment. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna serves as a Guru to Arjuna in the midst of the battlefield, clearing up his confusions and delusions. It is not a two or three century old tradition. An enlightened sage is also a source of auspicious energies and high prana/chi levels. This is why satsang or company of sages is emphasized in eastern religious philosophy. There is no hard and fast rule that one needs a Guru for enlightenment. A very healthy person, holistically speaking, can attain enlightenment on his own with proper effort and minimal guidance. However the learning and progress curve is greatly reduced by the grace and guidance of an enlightened sage, and one can then find time for other pursuits and interests and even excel in them. The west has no concept of enlightenment or Buddhahood, and this is why such concepts seem strange over there.

Do you seriously think that a man who was equanimous and clear-minded even after taking a heavy dosage of drugs which would have made anyone else delirious or nuts or even dead with a heart attack, would be moved to lustful agitation by the presence of a woman !

Common sense is not synonymous with ignorance. It is similar to saying that Trump is the owner of the Taj Mahal, when it is actually a historical monument in India.

This is not there in the book, only in the article, possibly due to misinterpretation , not studying the whole context in the book, and lack of knowledge of Indian cultural traditions of Tantra. It is quite clear in the book itself that NKB exemplified Tantric practices. These are some of his own teachings obtained from the book you have posted here ... What knowledge do you have of right handed Tantra, which is an ancient tradition in India !

A similar theme stated by Samdhong Rinpoche ... https://samdhongrinpoche.com/en/foreword/ I would say that a certain knowledge and understanding of the mind should be imparted in modern secular education so that children will not be conditioned to associate material success and gratifications with happiness solely while growing up, which can be a recipe for discontentment, depression and addictive behaviors later on. A happy, mindful and equanimous mind independent of circumstances and situations is also more productive in work and personal relations, compared to an unhappy mind filled with cravings that prevent contentment and consequently peace and happiness for himself or herself.

Yes, all the more reason to stay away from dangerous people like him.