TranquilTurmoil

@Apech I have often wondered throughout my years of weary wandering, "is this it?" The answer luckily always seems to be "No", but I wish I could hear that answer more often.

FWIW I don't think i'm in a state of overt resistance or dukkha right now, and I wasnt for a long time until the past couple weeks. I'm in a state of emotional rigidity right now/the surfacing of dark emotions (which I don't remember experiencing in years), which has led to me losing my sense of having a heart full of love (though I retain my compassion). I am trying to thaw the internal ice, and my grasping at the thawing process slows it down. So in the meantime, I have been trying to find the right balance of "Just Sitting", walking, music, communication, expression, acceptance, patience, etc to return to emotional receptivity. I do see the value of where I am, I see the value of where I have been, and it's an ongoing process to disentangle myself from the habits of grasping and rejecting. I am averse to emotional rigidity, but to reiterate I do see on a rational level that i have to do my best to drop the aversion to help dissolve the rigidity.

Yayyy!!!!

Seeking A PPD forum... that is all

A couple things that were formative for me: When I was 20 going on my first retreat at Blue Cliff Monastery in NY, my first spiritual friend was a 28 year old named John who had had quite a rough and insightful journey. Somehow we were discussing metaphysics which was frowned upon there, and I presented my case that I believed there is opportunity in all that life throws at us, but he responded with SiNCERE conviction that "We always get what we need." This was someone who had had direct insight into nonduality at an early age, had gone down the tantric path (TB and a form of HInduism) left behind his guru after losing faith being a hindu monk, abandoning his tantric vows as far as I can tell, as was one of the kindest, most compassionate humans I have ever met. That combined with my Walker interpretation of the Yi (which I have seen and am internalizing a lot of the criticism here of) carries heavy themes of fate and that "Every moment in every person's life contains the teaching we need most at the time". This has been a powerful skillful means (i think) believing to the best of my capacity for years... but looking at the external world it's a bit hard to fathom or reconcile. So maybe for now I will stick with making the most out of everything instead of taking leaps of faith... who knows?

I guess what I struggle with is the conflict between what I assume is the cosmic buddhist view that samsara is spontaneously born from ignorance and grasping and aversion, that we are all here by some divine misfortune of sorts, versus the at times comforting view that the Universe is on our side, and that we are always getting what we need most to harmonize us with an optimal destiny of sorts. I don't know if that is the actual buddhist view I described or how I have come to understand it through reading. I have also been at times fascinated by western hermticism and the related but also either frightened by it, or intimidated by trying to sort through it. I just havent figured out if I am going to dive into a more esoteric form of study/practice, where to start, as it seems like it makes most sense to go wholeheartedly into one than become broad of knowledge in regards to esoteric theory and practices. I do tend to think there is quite a bit of truth to astrology (when done sincerely and skillfully), but don't know much more about it than my sun sign.

Switching my focus in the past weeks from actively thinking to observing thoughts arise has definitely helped in subduing strong and less desirable emotions. Which this forum has given me a healthy nudge towards doing.

@Nungali @steve thank you for the wonderful and insightful responses. Will see if I want to investigate it later 🙏🏼

For Elliot, Forever Ago Dear Precious Elliot, Greetings from the future. I am here to inform you All of your wildest dreams come true And none of it goes how you expected Or even wanted While this might be a startling state of affairs, Which it is Fret not The human condition is quite an adaptable one As well as evolutionary And even if the caterpillar once thought All it ever wanted to be was a beautiful caterpillar 🐛 Resistance and despair be damned If you didnt turn into a butterfly 🦋 So keep an open mind as you let the cocoon You spent 8 years in loosen it’s walls and grip And don’t damage your wings Because you think they aren’t the ones you purchased.

Thanks a lot @freeform I can see how my path has led to deficient Zhi. I’m actually setting boundaries now in personal relationships, not over-doing forbearance to the point of detriment, and have at least a healthy level of free will (I cut off my hair and beard last night myself… it was quite an experience). I’m certainly not mentally fighting for survival these days but I’m sure I still have steps to take to continue nourishing the spirit. I feel like I’m making strides. Thank you 🙏🏼

My whole life became a conflict/test of faith.. I went years without speaking to a teacher, years without the ability to seek like-minded friends to name a couple things… it has to do with Walker’s interpretation of Hexagram 6 (and to a certain extent hexagram 5) essentially, how In the face of seeking external help or would repeatedly come up, and how the Oracle applied it to just about every decision I could possibly make (and I bet it would appear that I somehow went astray and wildly misinterpreted it —- yes And no——-). Im response to the last statement, I would never advise anyone to start with the Walker interpretation (I think)… but it still has some value for my specific path now, as with the combo of Walker and Wilhelm it both gives the Yi the opportunity to communicate clearly and with a wide array of “options”, and I can derive benefit from it on multiple levels. But it might be a practice to discard if it ever feels right to.

So I feel like my practice with the Oracle has evolved to the point where I fully trust it and can interpret its guidance. However, as I spent 7 years with the Brian Browne Walker interpretation exclusively (I ve added the Wilhelm translation as an illuminating complement/equal in the last year and it’s done wonders!) I never knew about or bothered with the intricate esoterica of the Yi or Taoist thought. I’m wondering if I’m fine just using it without grasping the fine print? Or if there is great benefit in studying things like nuclear trigrams, and a million other things I don’t know about or understand? I don’t feel inclined at the moment to dive into intellectual analysis unless I can be persuaded that I’m missing something. 🙏🏼

Update: before (Form is no other than emptiness) After: (Emptiness is no other than form ) Forgive the low-quality images, my iphone pics don't usually upload.. And in case you are wondering, no barbers were harmed in the making of these photos, but that was my first haircut I've ever given myself

I was reading on https://www.andrewholecek.com about the practice of illusory form... and it's pointing to a very harsh truth that I've been seeking to disbelieve or find a more suitable alternative... that even the most sacred of all human activities and connections ---Friendship/Relationships ---- are illusory, ephemeral and that we are grasping at phantoms. This is deeply distressing to me and becoming seemingly simultaneously apparent. Is there really a true serenity, happiness, and gratitiude to be found transcending samsara, severing or detaching from all attachments? In transcending samsara/birth and death is there still true unity (or an even greater unity?) Is there really Nothing to hold on to... even our family/friends/hopes? It just all seems so tragic. But according to this quote... it seems so: "In the pattern that the world and life's appearances weave Visions of parents, relatives and friends are like illusions and dreams LIke morning mist, they are fleeting, and at the time they dissolve That's the time to search for unborn confused mind's basic reality" -Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche For the concerned I finally connected with a like-minded societal exile, scarred by life's wounds and that has tremendous healing potential i think. But it is so haaard traversing the realm of spiritual seeking and lay life, seeking truth and wisdom while hoping to deeply and fully connect and serve. Feedback appreciated .

Indulge my spontaneous association from Zhaungzi: "The spoken isn't just bits of wind. In the spoken, something is spoken. But what it is never stays fixed and constant. So is something spoken, or has n othing ever been spoken? People think we're different from baby birds cheeping, but are we saying any more than they are? How could Way be so hidden that there's true and false? How could the spoken be so hidden that there's yes this and no that? How could Way leave and exist no more? How could the spoken exist and be insufficient? These days, Way is hidden in small realizations and the spoken is hidden in florid extravagance so we have philosphies.... declaring yes this and no that. They each affirm what the other denies, deny what the other affirms. If you what to affirm all that they deny and deny all that they affirm, you can't beat illimuniation

Not to derail the thread, and hopefully if this doesnt go well I can quickly drop it, but I immediately identified with having (at varying degrees at varying times) something like the overactive Hun and the suppressed Po. This was especially true when I was 20 when I had emotional shutdown, was smoking marijuana on a semi-regular basis, alienated from society, etc. But even in the past couple of months, my friend who is a Reiki Teacher had me for a reiki session over video chat, and she diagnoses me as having a deficient root chakra, and a "tear" in my sacral chakra (as well as an overactive heart chakra somewhat surprisingly). Now I know this is a bit complex in cross-comparing systems, and I dont know if I have certainty in Reiki, but I believe my friend is legit in her methods and sincerity... So, any practical, non-drastic advice towards balancing Hun and Po? if needed to message as opposed to commenting feel free.

@silent thunder I’m currently trying to rest in awareness as much as possible/is optimal… but if I merely did that all day I might burn out or become agitated as I’m in a place of limited mental strength and concentration. Thus I take music as a refuge, the self expression associated with that, and follow the contemplative impulse very often (which isn’t necessarily healthy, but I don’t want to subjugate my personality/spirit at this moment in time). I hope to shift towards less contemplation, more abiding… but I do also need emotional release. Balance is key

I’m coming to appreciate the value of sangha as a teacher in the sense of being a mirror, pointing towards truth, and providing refuge, as well as the Oracle stopping me from following my unwholesome whims/impulses while instilling confidence in me towards pursuing the way wholeheartedly

Whether or not I am separate from the Oracle, while it’s primary function is to mirror my obscurations, it also (seemingly from my experience) the power to clearly see/forecast things both knowable and unknowable to the individual, and thus provide guidance towards a harmonized/optimal way of relating to it and approach towards it. It KNOWS when someone will call me beforehand, when a door is on the verge of opening, etc. I can’t emphasize this enough as I was led to do so many things that I never wanted to do and didn’t even seem beneficial… yet in hindsight I see the benefit and how I would have never got to or through these experiences being my own guide or even with any teacher I have met thus far. Will clarify as needed, and of course my experience is not objective truth but I have a decent degree of confidence in my interpretation of my experiences 🙏🏼

@virtue @stirling to clarify the comment about abandoning patience/forbearance… what I meant is there has been a shift in my practice from consulting the Yi once a day in the morning, not asking a specific question, just consulting for general guidance and living a life of contemplative waiting in a spirit of gritting my teeth and clenching my jaw…. To living life from moment to moment adapting to circumstances/change as it arises. I think you would agree that both sounds healthier, and doesn’t really negate forbearance as I alluded to 🙏🏼

Thank you Harmen. So far I have only watched the part of why not to use Interpretations. I largely agree with your perspective, as almost all of the problems I got into in my early years were based on not having a proper understanding of the Yi and “winging it” to disastrous and semi-miraculous effects alike. When I started using Wilhelm a year ago, my mind opened, doors opened and everything expanded. However, I do believe the two different texts still contact the “same Oracle”, and the Oracle strongly advised me to bear with the chaos of the Walker interpretation until causes and conditions came together and I could cross the great water with the Wilhelm translation. My intuitive sense is that at this point on my path they both have there value for me, as the Walker interpretation focuses on self-examination and self-correction almost exclusively, and Wilhelm’s translation helps me navigate everyday life. I’m open to being wrong here, though. 🙏🏼

@stirling I’d be happy to explain how my experience has completely been incongruous with the notion that oracles are merely mirrors. I feel like I kind of have in other threads, but maybe that would be a good topic to discuss either in message, comments or if/when we zoom🙏🏼

@thelerner at risk of reinforcing my "story", and for good emphasis about how I feel about believing in illusions in a spirit of optimism and attachment... here's Pheobe Bridgers

What do you know: another TT metaphysics thread!? I was wondering what perspectives on the three main divisions in Buddhism you all may have, insights to share etc. Some lingering questions for me: Was the Buddha the first and foremost arhat or a secret bodhisattva? If it was the former that’s true was Shakyamuni a Buddha the way Mahayanists/Vajrarayanists think of the word? in that light, is the Mahayana and it’s sutras/theory/practices revisionist? A natural progressive evolution? True dharma consistent with the dhamma? I find Vajra fascinating and frightening and thus haven’t immersed myself in studying IT but do like to read the insights and teachings of Vajra Lamas from time to time. Is vajrayana an expedient practice to full Mahayana realization or does it actually go beyond it? Chogyam Trungpa in his wonderful Profound treasury of the Ocean of Dharma: treatise on the Mahayana way of Wisdom and Compassion (that may not be the exact title I don’t remember) seems to describe the Mahayana beginning after shravakayana maturity (relatively mastering the path of individual liberation) and the Vajrayana path beginning when one is firmly and hopefully irreversibly committed to the bodhisattva path. I wonder if this is an accurate description or a Pro Vajrayana view? What would lead one other than the encouragement of a root teacher or guru to know it was skillful to seek the dangerous, exalted , and exotic path of Tantra (and/or associated practices)? 🤔💭🧐😇

"Follow emptiness and you turn your back on it" -Faith in MInd poem I don't feel compelled to discover emptiness, except for the fact that im naturally discovering it on an intellectual level thorugh conceptual understanding of my experiences. This makes me think it would provide me solace to spontaneous arrive at an understanding of it, or at least get a helpful framework to navigate the teaching of impermanence and nonself. Right now I'm fluctuating between being in a emotionally expressive mood, a calm mood, and unsolicited harshness/anger/emotional rigidity. All moods should be related to skillfully. But I at least hope that after years of non-anger, I don''t have to spend too long subduing, embracing, letting go of the unsolicited anger. But i guess however it unfolds the most important thing is perseverance, patience, openness.