TranquilTurmoil

For even more clarification: I do not doubt that I have or still do suffer from certain form(s) of Chan Sickness. It's just that i think that was the inevitable collateral damage of the "poisonous methods" used my master. Otherwise, I imagine I would have been a gratified, self-righteous "half-enlightened master" as described in verse 80 of the Hua Hu Ching (Walker). I suppose that is a far more serious detrimental Chan sickness than suffering from being deflated and at times destitute,

For further clarity: My deluded nihilism only re-emerged recently. I used to suffer with a purpose, and thus felt meaning and hope. It's just that my deep hope led to deep disillusionment and thus disenchantment. it's kind of like climbing a mountain hoping to be welcomed at the top by your loved ones and building a new life there, only to find that you have to both climb down the mountain and start climbing new ones as well. It's a transition

It's just that ego will latch onto anything, and If i shaved off my 4 year beard and hair, willfully re-immersed myself into a more "normal" societal structure it would be very gratifying and I assume the I Ching believes would do more harm than good for me right now. So I'm planning on operating on the fringes and with select people at the moment until I'm ready to re-immerse myself into a more sober, ordinary life

Not at all! But that doesnt mean I try like to hell to lol.

To clarify: I peaked VERY early and whilst severely traumatized. So I had to cultivate after “waking up” and forego recognition/withdraw into concealment and undertake severe tests of will and faith. I think now I’m ready to step into wholeness and integration, but still without identity based structure

Free form: I appreciate your wisdom and perspective… although as I often feel communicating with like minds I feel like part of your perspective on my particular path is lacking. Aimlessness as taught by Thich Nhat Hanh is meant to be practiced in the midst of sangha, work, daily integrated life. However the I Ching had me strive to let go of ALL desires so I had nothing left to do other than arduous, uncomfortable, mindful sitting in the isolation of my home w/ family, followed by deepening my practice in the midst of a chaotic and lonely psych ward. I say passive sitting but it was very willful cultivation of equanimity…. To the exclusion of joy unfortunately. My “service” revolves around being there for my mentally ill friends who are loving but challenging, foregoing worldly pursuits in favor of the narrow path of cultivation, and relinquishing ideas and identities. However, sangha and flexible structure are crucial now! Pushing myself is important for sure, but I’m waiting for my health to recover or for my miracle healer to appear to me… or both. to clarify, my master, my Oracle seems to have intentionally led me to The Yin form of emptiness you describe. However, it is forecasted that I’m on the verge of a great change and I intellectually believe that. It’s just hard to take it to heart when i have been “without” for so long. much appreciation 🙏🏼

A year ago I wrote a limerick that started, “There once was a mouse who lived in a house on the tip of the tallest mountain.”

It’s more to do with Chan/Zen although it seems a bit derivative or unified with Taoist philosophy. My limited understanding of Wei wu wei is the harmonious, spontaneous, exercise of spirit to the exclusion of ego through intuitive and constant discernment. For me, this led to years of passive sitting and seems to be culminating now with various natural and largely spontaneous pursuits. back to Zen/Chan: some teachers emphasize that there”Is nothing to attain”, “nowhere to go, nothing to do” that you sit just to sit without any gaining idea…. Wholehearted focus/mindfulness in the moment yes, working towards realization consciously…. Usually not. There is also the teaching of the 3 doors of liberation (1. Aimlessness, 2. Emptiness, 3. Signlessness). Aimlessness works on a few levels, such as emptying the mind of ideas, attitudes, expectations, making way for sincerity, gratitude, compsssion, and joy (although joy was usually sacrificed in my experience), directing one towards service as opposed to seeking a path of individual liberation. I know in my devotion to the I Ching it has never led me to seek immortality or transcendence… although transcendence occasionally sneaks up on you while traversing daily life. With that said there is often little room for error and complacency at times! 🙏🏼

Yes! Very apt description. I went from seeking transcendence and escape , to being stuck at sea, to glimpsing the other shore, to setting sail again, to stopping by my hometown; expecting a hero’s welcome just to find it deserted, to feeling stuck between two worlds as you describe, to moving towards the unity of my spiritual life and my “new life”… and letting my hopes, expectation, and attachments to my “old life” fall away. But yes we are the water not merely the wave… and hopefully one day I ll realize the water IS the ocean. 🌊

PS what appeals to me about the Mahayana Buddhist path is it’s true goodness and profound commitment to truth and compassion. When that doesn’t feel reciprocated and actually feels quite the opposite often, with no final liberation in sight (that I can see at least though I don’t fully understand how the higher Bhumis/attainments work/function)… it can really lead to burnout. At the same time I have no intention of abandoning my vows or inner truth. So I think I just have to do my best. Which I guess is all we can ever really do 🙏🏼

To elaborate: I have lived quite of a difficult path by Any standard the last 8 years. To the point even I had my peak experience and glimpsed what I glimpsed, i experienced it as salvation… and yet I did not arrive at a more than temporary happiness if that. I know it’s unhealthy to be attached to our stories, but I ve faced intense and prolonged isolation + separation from everything and everyone I had loved prior to starting. While I recognize the inherent serenity and illumination of true self/nature, until we reach a much higher peak than I have reached, it is merged with ego, with the psyche, it’s trauma . So I believe my longing comes from the heart the way a parent would grieve for it’s child or a child yearning for it’s parent after being rather forcibly separated. True nature I believe can be serene with this. But I have more mountains to climb before I cure the ills of my heart and mind. I’m inclined to look for it in friendship and love and service more than cultivation methods at this moment while still cultivating wholeheartedly and sincerely. As jack kornfield said, “many of the best meditators are slightly depressed… as they have old wounds still to heal “. With that said the practice of resting in the canvas to the best of my abilities has been very helpful as well as the support of TDB, my zen center, the few friends I have left outside of that, and a newfound hope for a fulfilling life.

I ve been doing that since your last post, and I feel much more at ease. Im hesitant to even be posting ! However to clarify: I’m seeking wholeness rather than spiritual realization at the moment. I work towards realization, that’s my aspiration but what gets me is a feeling of lack and longing. The grasping and rejecting that comes from that lack is the root of my suffering and creates the cycle of ego recreating itself ceaselessly. But thank you for the helpful pointing. 🙏🏼

I believe I recognize the silent canvas, and then ego usually manifests and draws all over it lol. It’s like I’m afraid of the stillness. Maybe ego fears for its security and prominence? Any tips other than patience and acceptance for not polishing the mirror but rather being the clear mirror and thus letting the dust fall off of itself?

Funny that I would stumble across this article tonight: https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/highest-level-of-samadhi/ I know you aren’t a Buddhist but I think it’s teaching what you are getting at, as well as incorporating/reflecting the teachings found in Awakening to the Tao by Liu YiMing 🙏🏼

Fwiw I think I’m in the process of healing and integrating… it’s just sometimes we need a good vent and look to the clouds and ask “Lord! Where art thou?” ⛅️

I see. I bounce back and forth (and sometimes simultaneously?) between resting in awareness/observing mind/subtly, gently willing myself towards purifying the mind, intention, thought through intention, and either contemplating spontaneously or more insidiously reflecting/ruminating , indulging in unskillful thought or self absorption. Hope that points you to where “I” currently am… and whatever you feel is wise advice (or non-advice) I ll welcome and consider 🙏🏼

To clarify: I have glimpsed serenity… profound serenity from a peak experience that lasted a few days and recurred on and off for a short time, as well as more insignificant and rather less understandable moments/minutes/hour or so of a deep softening, a sense of being home in peace. currently I don’t possess a serenity that comes and goes, I more regularly experience bittersweet somewhat humorous and graceful perspectives (and sporadic insights). I’m guessing you are doing direct pointing and I’m explaining myself lol. But serenity was just experienced rather than me experiencing serenity? However the ego still identified with it in a self-referential way. But yes, higher nature seems that to be directly and profoundly insightful…. Though I can’t testify if it serene or if it just (sometimes) activates feelings of serenity when it comes forth 🙏🏼

Thank you <3. Powerful and simple reassurance and encouragement. Namaste

The Nirvana Sutra heretically teaches the doctrine of atman over shunyata. The Lankavatara sutra emphasizes shunyata over Buddha nature (I think) while implying they are different skillful means for different types of beings. I believe there is no “self “ but i much more so believe there is higher nature that has the qualities of insight, universal love, effortless compassion, wisdom, peace to name a few. That’s why I get confused. It seems that no creator is intrinsic to Buddhism certainly…. But is Buddhism definitively more right? In Taoism certainly the Tao is unborn but I’m honestly not informed enough to know if it has the same origin/development theory. I know this all sounds like intellectual speculation which maybe it is . But it’s also trying to sift through confusion to arrive at clarity… but maybe it’s better not to take the analytical route towards that 🤷🏼‍♂️ edit: in my experience, higher nature and ego can exist simultaneously which seems to somewhat contradict Buddhist descriptions in familiar with? I guess it’s the difference btwn shallow realization and truly dissolving the ego and realizing permanent liberation?

I think mini sanghas within a larger sangha are risky but sometime necessary to cultivate genuine refuge and prevent detrimental chaos? Take refuge in those you feel comfortable with, forgive and disengage/separate from conflict situations that aren’t ready to be solved, and only try to build bridges when the time comes maybe… I see how that’s challenging on a public forum, but as tempting and seductive it may be to try to present ones case to others either skillfully or in argument… sooner or later you have to retreat from toxic conversations and dynamics lest it sour your spirit. *Prays for the discernment to practice what I preach

I’m tempted to go back and forth here and intuitively worry I’m getting insecure and frustrated/defending my sense of self. however I’m a bit confused by your perceptions. Thich Nhat Hanh, my first Buddhist teacher, defined bodhicitta as the mind of love. I suppose absolute bodhicitta is an unconditional love/longing to nourish and benefit all beings. However relative bodhicitta as I understand it is about willing yourself through compassionate intent towards loving thought, speech, and conduct, whether it comes totally natural or not. (I learned about the distinction btwn the two In Chogyam Trungpa’s aforementioned treatise on the Mahayana.) I’m not sure how that’s not orienting oneself constantly and gently towards the heart/mind? im always open to correcting myself, but feeling misunderstood is an emotional trigger for me, and due to the extreme uniqueness and unorthodox nature of my path total acceptance and understanding is hard to come by, even from very advanced practicioners. 🤷🏼‍♂️ 🙏🏼

Only people who don’t understand inclusivity and compassion (or even rationality) would exile someone over a serious disagreement of perspective. I personally am pro-vaccine and I have anti-vax friends… there beliefs and stance does upset me tbh, but I wouldn’t look down on them or throw them out bc of it or even try to effort fully persuade them if it didn’t seem beneficial. So while I have never chatted with you and have only read your posts over the months, I think you belong here! At least as much as my rambling and overly sincere/expressive posting does! 🤗😇🙏🏼

Hmm. Im quite sure that residing/dwelling in bodhicitta is a superb path exclusively. However, as my energetic tendencies are currently construed I sometimes rest in heart/mind and other times investigate phenomena/truth/teachings in the a curious and hopefully innocent intention and fashion. If i tried to forcibly/over exert my mind towards dwelling in the heart i suspect it would arouse unbalanced agitation in me. I personally have no interest in pursuing the path of individual liberation, but i wouldnt want to exclude or condemn them either from following their truth and making a dent in samsara as they believe to be right/appropriate. Or learning from their wisdom even if it seems incomplete to me Maybe we are missing each other here or I'm misunderstanding your point? Regardless i think i might need to take your implied advice to heart and do my best to turn my mind towards tranquility now rather than analysis. My tendency is to be quite fixated on one subject/area of concentration at a time as I have OCD. Feel free to clarify what you meant, and I'll try to find the right balance. -Elliot

As a simple, spontaneously thought out response: I find in trying times whether alone or collectively we are forged in the fire and have no choice but to become strong or break emotionally. In solitude we cultivate willpower, and inner reslience and taking refuge in a collective we cleanse our heart.and become a vessel in a different way.. The most terrible and painful emotions and situations, related to with innocence, curiousity, openness, equanimity, etc. are often what can lead us to the most profound transmutations and growth... albeit we have wounds to deal with later on usually in my experience. Praying for the welfare of the world is the heart of the path... and also not for the faint of heart if we are sincere and devoted. As my psych ward therapist aptly commented to me 2 days ago: "LIfe is not for wussies!" (and she said this in a gentle embrace of cmpassion, empathy, and reluctant detachment. Namaste my friend.

Virtue, I didn’t mean to have an ego-stroking, overly intellectual topic… I’m trying to get to the heart of the unity of BuddhaDharma /BuddhaTao by having a decent map and framework in understanding it. I can’t emphasize enough the integral necessity of cultivating bodhi heart/mind over intellectual understanding. I’m just trying to pursue the Eightfold path from many angles. I have been at a discussion/dialectic deficit for nearly a decade as I had the burden of not having access to a sangha. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and sincerity.