stirling

Now now.... those aren't MY words, they are yours. I call foul. I haven't said that it is wrong to recognize faults in others, or that you should drop issues, accept Sadhgurus beliefs, or throw personal discernment out the window. What I said was all appearances in consciousness are enlightened, and mirror our attachments and aversions back at us. It might be a great place to learn about attachment to gurus, your personal biases, attachment to solidified ideas about drugs, spirituality, your aversion to religion or religious practices. I don't know what attachments or aversions you might have, but you will, and DO if you have any. You can simply look back at your past experience, or your cherished opinions, or your self-image and see what they are. This is where the teaching lies in this case. One other small point: Please share with me the name of the one person in the world who has an objective viewpoint. I would be keen to meet them.

To take this further: How many variables would it take to properly model reality? It is good at this juncture to properly explore the idea of dependent origination (the idea that all phenomena must arise dependent on OTHER phenomena) contemplatively and experientially.

Well... we agree here for sure. The teaching that is needed is always present when and where it is needed. Having said that, what about teaching from parking tickets, Amitahba, sunsets, orangutans, Padmasambhava, the Dao Bums, Dogen, sandwiches, Tseng T'san, Britney Spears, Mahayana, Shunryu Suzuki, Gatorade, Tsongkapa, and the myriad other enlightened appearances that drop you a line moment to moment? I have had, and met, multiple enlightened teachers as well, if you prefer ones with better packaging. They are everywhere! Unless you are enlightened, the teachings you are reading are not yet making sense. Understanding the technique of one method is fine, but it is entirely the actions of an individual following conceptual directions, not understanding. Enlightenment 100% WON'T make sense to you. Choosing teachings because they resonate with some idea you have about enlightenment is a mistake. Enlightenment doesn't make sense because it is ineffable and doesn't correspond to any intellectual idea you have read, or system you think will bring it about. (Having said that, it will also be 100% familiar to you.) If this is a stumbling block, then another technique is probably the way in you need. Struggling for years with a practice is not the Middle Way. There are as many Dharma Doors in as there are beings... no need to be attached to a single one. Science and methodology are fine, but really only has application in the Relative understanding. Science is for modeling limited subsets of interactions in the Relative world, NOT for understanding the Absolute which includes the entire fabric of reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_modelling Having a system you can follow and diligently applying it without attachment to success is the way, but it is important to understand that the system is not the cause of enlightenment. This is why the Buddha says you can ditch the raft once you have crossed the river. Cause and Effect are relative constructs. Enlightenment is a shift in perspective where the cause and effect universe can been seen to exist as a subset of the Absolute. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. They are the same, and yet the Relative is the one that arises and passes away. The Absolute is always present and, once seen, omnipresent. Dependent origination, Thich Nhat Hhan's "interbeing", and even Nagarjuna's Madhymaka are all just scaffolding to allow the thinking mind to have some vague idea about a territory that is impossible to label or describe with subject/object language. They are pointing tools, not the real territory. This is a fine explanation of "no self", but "emptiness" goes MUCH deeper than this. It is not just what WE have no-self, it is that NOTHING has self. Even space and time are empty. I know that for some reason you discount it, but this is a far better exposition on emptiness, in my opinion, because it is obvious that it is not just "self" that is empty. It ALL is. Prajna is the best term for it, IMHO. In this case the reference is to resting in Rigpa, sitting in Shikantaza, or enlightened mind as it naturally is, quiet and empty,. This is the nature of Mind itself, as it naturally is, stainless and perfect. Yes... I know. I have read it before. In what other trainings by the Buddha does he go over this specific method? Hmmm. I wonder what is meant here by "disturbance of the six sensory fields" precisely. In any moment I can see that the sense fields are both empty of intrinsic existence, and that what was once attributed to them individually is just the arising and passing of the dharmakaya, therefore there ARE no real "sensory fields' or anything that could disturb them. This would seem to negate the statement as phrased? I looked up Ayatana on Wikipedia, and if you search "empty" you can see that one of the minor insights is in seeing through the reality of individual sense doors. One example from the page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Āyatana You might know more about this, as the Tripitaka isn't my primary area of study?

Meditation, and Enlightenment are BOTH psychedelic. Doing psychedelics does occasionally hint at the time/space/self-less qualities of non-dual understanding, but often not in the ways you imagine it. It is NOT being stoned, drunkenness, or nodding off. When working with the jhanas there IS an opiated feeling to sitting in the body (sukha) when you know what you are looking for, but it is hard to hang on to, and leads to much more useful states. These states are ONLY analogs of what the understanding of complete insight gives, and therefore arise and pass like all other impermanent phenomena. There is nothing wrong with comparing SOME these states to layers of insight, but where there is insight the experience is much subtler, deeper, and broader. As layers of conditioning come away there are some very visceral and interesting ways in which our concreted ideas about reality get teased apart, and our beliefs in what is real or possible shift and fall away . As for Sahdguru, any appearance in consciousness can be a teacher. All appearances are "bhagwan". The entire dharmakaya, or phenomenal reality, is already enlightened. I'm not sure why Sadhguru would be excluded. My suggestion would be to look at what attachment or aversion you have to Sadhguru's statement and see what fixed ideas you need to drop.

All of this is true, but I would add that there is a sense of limitless clarity, the ability to see how moment to moment events connect with each other, and, (my opinion) a satisfying contentment and "rightness", as though things are interlocking without effort and couldn't be any other way. This DOES engender, IMHO, a sort of relaxation and "bliss"- not like you are on drugs, or anything, but more like that feeling of relaxation after a busy day when you know there is nothing left to accomplish.

The Buddha is attempting to be precise, which is something I love about Buddhism, but I don't know how helpful that is to your average meditator, OR Buddhist. Similarly, I think the silo-stack of ttatvas, the Vissudimagga, and Mahasi Saydaw’s The Progress of Insight amongst other models are well beyond what most will experience. These could be used by a realized "being" to help diagnose a student, but no student is EVER going to properly understand how these types of jargon relate to experiential knowledge. Besides, the fact is that the "path" is different for each person, and upon completion it is realized there was never a path at all, and the teachings were NEVER the vehicle for the complete understanding. These sorts of things are models ONLY, not the actual thing. Even the mighty Nagarjunas brilliant descriptions of emptiness were intended at pointers, scaffolding, or logical exercises - the map, NOT the territory. Not knowledge but "gnowledge", as in gnosis". Only experiential, non-conceptual, moment-to-moment, permanent perspective shift counts here. Enlightenment recognizes itself. It can see sunyata at varying depths in this moment, and is an instrument of prajna in this moment. - (As a side note, I am abundantly sure the Buddha would see that the "sense doors", like every else, are merely conceptual and are therefore empty of existence, and thus no "canker" at all. This is obvious to every "person" I have ever met with complete understanding.) Apologies for formatting... advanced editor isn't working for me this AM.

...keeping in mind that Rinpoche is a Kagyu tradition teacher, apparently. Dzogchen is a central practice in the Nyingma tradition. There are aspects (togal and treckhod) that are not taught until later, but don't mistake those later teachings as being somehow "higher" than what is initially taught. Introduction to the nature of mind (pointing out instruction), and learning to rest in Rigpa are taught from the beginning with the hope that the student might immediately recognize their true nature. It occasionally happens that a student immediately gains insight and never NEEDS more teaching, only stabilization of the view.

The practice of Open Awareness, which is resting in Rigpa, just as Shikantaza is in Zen practice incorporates both shamatha AND vipassana. The "object" is everything (or nothing): phenomena in the field of the dharmakaya, arising and passing away moment to moment. The Tibetan schools are NOT all the same. While Dzogchen is often a feature of some schools, it deeply entwined in the Nyingma school. The approach of the Nyingma school is "swooping down from above while climbing up from below", meaning that while there are the "relative" practices, there is ALWAYS the "absolute" practice of Dzogchen as part of the training and day to day work.

Dudjom Rinpoche did the Ngondro practice his entire life, believe it or not! I did have affinity with a number of my teachers, but this isn't why Dzogchen teachings were taught from the beginning. Even after being taught Togal and Trekchod, the highest practice, which was taught from the beginning, was the most used: simply resting in Rigpa. Resting in Rigpa IS a complete practice. The practice of teaching "the view" is often what comes first in my experience with Nyingma teachers, and it gets pointed back to constantly. The approach is often referred to as "swooping down from above while climbing up from below" - the teaching of the absolute view, alongside the practices of the relative. Resting in Rigpa IS the complete practice.

You COULD worry about military cover ups or alien invasions if you have some free time, but I wouldn't bother. Meditate instead. Gods, angels, demons, extraterrestrials and ghosts are all as real as the "self" that could be harmed by them. None of them have any intrinsic (def.: belonging to a thing by its very nature) reality of their own. What YOU are is what everything is. Where do you hide a conspiracy in such a reality? Worry about your delusions regarding the nature of reality instead. If you figure THAT out, it fixes this problem (and all other problems) completely. I only wish I was on the payroll of a secret military group. The priest gig doesn't pay that well. Either way, my answer would be the same. Lying is against both my priest and bodhisattva vows; it doesn't happen.

Look at the motion of the aliens. It is unnatural, but in a way peculiar to modeling software frame to frame rendering. The motion of living beings is exceedingly difficult to model. Look at the faux film texture (which is a typical, off-the-shelf pattern that has recognizable repeating elements, once you have seen them numerous times), and how it contrasts with the sharpness of the modeled aliens. Film has grain, especially in 8 or 16mm film. You should be able to SEE that grain, and it should soften the details of the subject matter in a variety of predictable ways. It isn't there. This is the just the tip of the iceberg. It is very obviously fake to me. I am fine with you believing otherwise.

20 years as an A/V engineer, and familiarity with 3D rendering technologies.

These are all hoax footage constructed in modeling software and processed in fairly common digital video software to appear like "distressed" film. I am not in any way saying that there isn't real footage of alien craft, or that it isn't entirely possible that alien spaceships or pilots exist. All kinds of apparent "beings" appear and disappear in consciousness every day.

Every Nyingma teacher I ever had taught Dzogchen FIRST, then relative practices - Ngondro, etc.

I wish you would.

I'll have to disagree with you here. If a would be practitioner discovers that Buddhism doesn't seem create kind, helpful teachers I'd suggest they look somewhere else. I don't think I implied that Bodhicitta is an emotion, did I? Relative Bodhicitta can certainly PRESENT emotionally in my experience.

I'd say it is both. I don't have a problem with you disagreeing. No-one is saying that exposure therapy is across the board appropriate, so I'm not sure what you are getting at. It was merely an example. I agree with you about platitudes and beliefs, transcendent or otherwise. All real knowledge is, and must be experiential. I suggest you judge a philosophy by intimate knowledge of its practitioners or teachers, NOT what you read. I don't know what philosophies or methods you believe are at cross purposes, but if you are pointing that designation at me you don't understand anything about my work at all. From my perspective denying emotions or working with them is literally impossible. Awakening only DEEPENS emotional content and connection. Prajna (Wisdom) and Boddhicitta (compassion) ALWAYS go hand in hand.

Your example is a mischaracterization of the intent. I doubt there is anyone who wouldn't have aversion to being raped, whether it actually happens or not. The work is for undoing the shift in how such a fear or experience might impact the way the world is viewed. I imagine that someone who has been raped might never feel safe anywhere, or might see the world as a potentially dangerous place in all situations, carrying around anxiety and fear. That anxiety and fear likely would impact a variety of relationships. The work is to dissolve or soften the fixed world-views around these things. If we used Western terminology I am sure it would make more sense to you, if you are open to seeing it. Reducing aversion (or fear/anxiety) is used in Anxiety Ladder Therapy and Exposure Therapy, amongst others. This is a nice re-statement of what I am attempting to say, with different terminology. I am sorry I failed so miserably in getting it across to you. Even the Buddhas descriptions of reality are incomplete, though that is through no fault of his. All descriptions are. The reason for this is in the nature of reality itself. The dharma is just conceptual ideas - the map, not the territory. Adopting the teachings as a belief system gets you nowhere. The Buddha himself said that the "raft" of the dharma should be dropped when the river is crossed, because it is no longer needed. I am against faith, and relying on intellectual understanding. I am disinteresting in adopting other people's (including the Buddhas) views as a "truth". My understanding is based on direct experience. Reality, in my experience, is not capable of being a fixed idea, it is no idea at all. Sadly, ideas are the only way we have of conveying these things besides helping others to have their own direct experience. You come across as having some anger about this topic. If you don't mind sharing, what is that about? Buddhism? My posts? Or?

I think we are still counting those practicing spiritual bypassing as humans with feelings. It's actually a poignant trap worthy of compassion: those things that get denied rather than dealt with tend to explode rather impressively in the personal lives of practitioners. This is where the role of a competent teachers comes in. No teacher worth their salt would allow any student to get very far with such things. For most Mahayana teachers the path is THROUGH taking apart these attachments and recognizing where denial is happening, not in letting them fester. The Buddha's solution isn't intellectual - that would be a misunderstanding. The understanding of "no-self" or "emptiness" is a non-conceptual realization, not something you read in a book and "get". It CAN actually be pointed out experientially in a relatively simple way for most people. Emotional health is learning to let go of attachment or aversion to experiences that have happened in the past, just like psychology. In Buddhism it is processed in meditation so that the attachment or aversion is reduced... something like exposure therapy. Most good Buddhist teachers who recognize deep unprocessed trauma will suggest that a student work with a psychologist in parallel. Buddhism and psychology have a long history together in the 20th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_psychology We agree that therapy can be key for letting go of attachment and aversion. In Buddhism we call these "obscurations". Fixed ideas caused by misunderstanding reality (delusion) in our attachment and aversion is a primary cause for not seeing things as they are, that causes depression and anxiety, amongst other difficulties.

What are the other options?

Agreed. I meet two types of people - those who want to be more comfortable in their life as it is, and those that want to peel the veneer off of reality and truly understand what lies underneath. In my experience 20 minutes a day will greatly reduce anxiety and reactivity in life. 40 minutes once or twice a day will bring up hidden trauma, attachment and aversion. I wouldn't recommend that anyone embark on such a journey without a guide and access to mental health care. Meditation bringing up your obscuration in order to see through your fixed ideas about things is what is SUPPOSED to happen - not a bug, a feature - while deeper "open awareness" practice simultaneously is also better preparing you to handle trauma as it comes up and is processed. Commitment to the process is important. The old adage applies:

Similarly, we commonly get a feeling in the gut and the mind will want to assign a story to it: "Why is my stomach sour? I must be anxious. What am I anxious about?" This is the excuse for the thinking mind to jump in and generate a story for you. We have to watch the mind carefully. IMHO, depression, anxiety, and many other mental health issues are the result of a problem-solving mind that has run out of control. Meditation, especially "open awareness" is a reliable antidote.

I'm sure there IS something political, yes, but it's really obvious in so many ways that there was fertile cross-pollination. I have a love for all of these traditions that met so long ago and influenced each other. Sound great, just reading the description - I'll have to check it out. Hurray! I wish there was more open fellowship and less sectarian infighting. Here's to a future where those with insight work to help deepen it everywhere, even supporting our "brothers and sisters". Bows to you, sir.

I understand your feelings, honestly. You are heard. I think there is some agreement that the days of barging in and taking over Zen centers by force is over. Teachers in this system are INVITED these days. As to whether you have doubts about me or my teacher, I'd say hang in there and let's get to know each other a bit better before you condemn? I understand your idea about liking informal groups, and I'd agree that generally they are FINE for beginning meditation instruction, etc. until people begin to have experiences that are frightening, emotionally difficult or supernatural. Meditation teachers are often out of their depth in such circumstances. This is where the rubber meets the road of the path, and where I find most of my students. Glad you got to make his acquaintance. Occasionally just meeting someone like that can shift things. I usually ditch the cushion in the second sit of the day at a Zazenkai or Sesshin, and use a bench for the rest of them. Old guy knees suck... luckily Zazen doesn't mind.

At the top of the page Gyatso says: I am not at all familiar with this teacher or his texts, but it might be the sort of thing that hasn't been translated? There is sadly a world of Vajrayana and Bon literature that hasn't been. Vajrayana and Chan are absolutely interconnected with Daoism. The relative-level tantric practices include moving internal winds and the like. I would love to be helpful, but the Nyingma school I have worked in is MUCH more like Zen in that the primary practice is "Open Awareness"/Shinkantaza/Dzogchen which comes "from the top" assuming that since all beings are already Buddha that is possible to practice as one and notice what has always already been the case. Probably it is mostly original Tibetan masters that know the ins and outs of the complicated energy practices, and many of them are drying up. In this case, teaching yourself would likely be a mistake, as the instruction would be incomplete without a teacher. You would also be mixing incompatible teachings if you intended to continue with Mahamudra Zazen and then dive into energy practices. Sure! I understand that - me either. I've never been a "joiner" and have traditionally been uncomfortable with anything "religious". Meeting ngakapas (wandering teachers) set me up for a lifetime of thinking realization could happen anywhere, and so most often I have spent my core time with teachers who have this characteristic. Realization shifted my feeling about this. Being part of the dharma "team" and having recourse to the support of other transmitted teachers and deeper teaching has shifted so much about my life and practice. The commitment, however is not to them or yourself - it is to others. My current teacher is the primary driving force for the outreach program from SF Zen center to get brown-robe teachers out to smaller rural Zen centers that might not have a senior teacher. That might be a future role for me too. You can be anywhere and be of benefit, "actualizing enlightenment" where you are NOW. BTW, Green Gulch is a fantastic place to sit and stay if you are amenable. Reb Anderson is there - one of the most amazing Zen teachers alive today. Thanks!