stirling

These teachings, like Dzogchen and Zen, are too simple for most people to believe enough to just practice. Practice means repetition with no expectation of benefit. Daniel Brown's Dzogchen/Bon translations are a fine example, or anything by Dogen. Most will needs detailed intricate practices, which are fine if that is what is needed. There is always hope that some will believe that the solution is much more simple.

Very nicely put. As a student of Dzogchen and a Zen priest, I can say that my experience is that both share many aspects very deeply with Daoism, which was my first love. The accepted standard "post insight" period is about 10 years, but more like 3 for most people I have met, but proximity to a realized teacher makes a BIG difference, or so it seems. Of course the whole story of the time it takes or doesn't take is a nonsense anyway.

I appreciate the clarity and candor of your response to Dwai. One of the things that is harder to get about the relative/absolute in Buddhism is how the duality/non-duality co-exist and co-create things as they are. My experience is that in this moment the conditions for what is happening, INCLUDING "my" intention in this moment arise together to form the unfolding. As I believe you are suggesting, there isn't some magical, deeper level that exist apart from this, it is all here now, all interconnected and inter-happening and always has been. Realization of the always present "deeper" layer of non-duality doesn't make the dualistic world of people, things, time and space go away, it is just realized that they always have existed as a center less, self-less, thing-less unity underneath.

Can you clarify this a bit? Is this from a particular practice or system? When you say know thyself, do you mean thy-Self, in an Advaita sense, or perhaps insight into no-self? Is this an insight you have, and if so how would you characterize it in a statement?

"Self" is as good as any other word for it... though some mix it up with "self". Bows.

Finally cutting through is really just a simple perspective shift. Nothing changes but how you see things. It is really very easy to realize what you are... what is hard is letting go of the artificial process of "self" that obscures it. Letting go of your ideas about how things are in your life, and taking every opportunity to "actualize enlightenment" (as Robert Thurman once said) by simply resting the mind its own nature are what is needed. There is a moment where enough "veils" or obscurations are dropped, and enough training of the mind has occurred where you spontaneously see through the delusion. This. What you are calling the "Self" is the simple awareness that lies underneath mind and thoughts. It is present all the time but isn't understood for what it is.

Norbu rinpoche is HIGHLY realized. This has a tendency to make "people" a bit strange. Some of the teachers I have met or worked with are similar. I am familiar with his teachings, and have seen Norbu speak (in the late 80's also), but never observed any of the phenomena you are mentioning... though he wouldn't be unique in having entourages like you suggest. Why do you mention them? There are no mentions of Dzogchen in my paragraphs, though I am quite familiar with it. Most of my teachers have been well-known Nyingma teachers. Bows.

I would suggest study and application of the Tibetan Lojong teachings. A nice way to get into this from a more Western perspective is Norman Fischers book: https://www.amazon.com/Training-Compassion-Teachings-Practice-Lojong/dp/1611800404 These teachings are a sort of morality training, but not a set of rules, more a way of observing our behavior and shifting it moment to moment. These teachings are deeply transformative, and Fischer has a fine way of making them relatable and very human. There is also an audiobook with Fischer reading his book which is highly recommended: For a fantastic more direct translation (the way I worked with it): https://www.amazon.com/Great-Path-Awakening-Cultivating-Compassion/dp/1590302141

Perhaps? In the simplest terms, what I mean is permanent and persistent insight into the non-dual nature of reality. This would be what lies beyond the dropping away of the "self" view. Beyond there appears to be an infinite scope for refinement of the understanding. An Arhat is enlightened, but is not a Buddha. Is this the distinction you mean to make?

"Waking up" is realizing how things truly are. There is no need to wake up, if you are happy with how things are. Resting in the quiet stillness of open awareness is being-ness without ideas of how to be. There are no cherished ideas when this is happening. Honesty is being realistic with yourself and others about your suffering, how you are, and what you do, and not trying to hide it.

Not at all. It's literally everywhere! How strong is it? How strong is the self identity?

Agreed... true compassion isn't meddling in what IS. True compassion is being WITH suffering as it happens, not "fixing" it or those who are suffering The important part of this statement is the 2nd part. How we "help" can often be worse than simply being with the suffering.

In my experience there isn't really any reason to aim for a "Pureland", enlightenment isn't some unobtainable goal - it's completely possible in this lifetime, even for a householder.

No teacher who is going to get you as far as you can go is going to deeply identify with practices, ideologies or politics. What kind of teacher do you want? An ENLIGHTENED teacher, and YES they are available. They are everywhere if you are truly looking. The world IS as it IS. It is loving, embracing, always pointing to its deeper nature if you are looking for it. What is real wisdom? It is being WITH this suchness as it unfolds, it isn't in sowing fear, discord, and obscurations. A teacher who thinks their students can make a mistake doesn't GET IT. ...the rest is here - it is worth a read: https://terebess.hu/english/hsin.html#23

I believe we have an accord!

Please - I only want friends here. My deepest apologies if I have insulted you in some way. Deep bows, to you.

Humility. Excellent. You are suspicious of the world, so it appears to be a place you need to be suspicious. What would happen if you believed it was loving instead?

Glad you brought this up! You see how the fool is at both the beginning AND ending of the path! No path!:) I have seen what dementia looks like with fear and duality around it. I get the feeling that you will greet it with mystery and curiosity instead. I agree! The world is always in need of more humility and sincerity.

Ah... but the fool DOES learn. The journey is through the major arcana. In terms of the tarot, the subject of ALL readings is understood to have begun as the fool. Yes, this means you and me as well. The real fool is the one who believes there is any journey (path) or agency at all.

The idea of desirable or undesirable outcomes is problematic. Luck is the idea that there is an outcome that benefits "you" or that there is even a "self" to benefit from the outcome. This is a delusion. There is no good luck, any more than there are "human rights". It is the imaginary projected pattern on a patternless, seamless whole. When you are "one with the Dao" or acting from enlightened mind there is no resistance to things as they are. There is "May be" mind... or "Beginner's Mind" as Shunryu Suzuki would say. Without the attachments or aversions of the "self" in the way this moment is, simply, as it is.

Luck is what happens when you are in alignment with what wants to happen. What wants to happen is NEVER your projected ideas about what you think "should" happen, or your plans to manipulate things as they are to suit your whims. Sometimes it IS your intentions of loving kindness.

Ironically, The Fool most often indicates new beginnings. https://www.thetarotguide.com/the-fool

A beautiful meditation on things as they are. It's always fascinating to me to see how it is reflected differently in each reflection.

What is needed is VERY simple, and has never been hidden. In fact, the duality of things in this world is ALWAYS pointing it its intrinsic, deeper non-dual reality, once you know what you are looking for. At its simplest it is in the Daodejing, but also, perhaps even more simply in the Heart Sutra, Bahiya Sutra and Tsin Tsin Ming. The teachings are always widely available.

I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at, but I will just say that doing things like acting out of anger even in the mind create more delusion. If your proposed actions in the mind are loving and kind, then they might be more helpful... but, really, the thinking mind is precisely THE wrong tool for working toward awakening.