stirling

That is a quote from the Tsin Tsin Ming, written by Zen patriarch Seng T'san. Not the Buddha, but a personal favorite. https://terebess.hu/english/hsin.html#3

You guys rock.

Have you read the Tsin Tsin Ming? Also one of the clearest documents on this topic. https://terebess.hu/english/hsin.html#3

Nagarjuna is pointing at emptiness - "non-dual 2". Not entirely sure what you mean here, but a realization of "emptiness" changes our understanding of literally everything. I like to use the simplified axis of time/space/self. What does it mean if there are no dualities in these aspects? What if there is no: self/other, here/there, now/then? Yes, you can only understand this through experience. It is not an intellectual understanding... no book, talk, or picture will ever express it or impart its knowledge. Yes, compassion without beings... love without an object. All of this and much more. Ask more specific questions and you might get more specific answers. What do you really want to know?

I honestly don't WANT to ban you, and it isn't up to me anyway... we cycle these things through the admin group. Whether you are banned or not isn't about what I want or think, it is ultimately up to you.

I am awake and aware in this moment. That is the closest to reality you are going to get. Beyond that, I read the news every morning. How do you know "what is happening"?

Bob, I've hidden your post because it violates board policy. You know why. We limited this type of conversation partially because of your comments and complaints about it, now it is YOU who are actively working to create anger and dissension. Stop creating work for the admins. Please recognize and honor the fact that we have acted on your complaints. If you can't help yourself, take a break. Or, perhaps post where it is appropriate... there are countless places to comment on this topic and read about it if you need an outlet. This is the last friendly warning. I just looked - you have zero warning points. Let's keep it that way. The next step will be a temporary ban. Please, let's not do that.

I know what is happening, and have friends that I discuss it with, mostly in broad terms. Having people to constructively talk to is a real luxury. Listening to Canadian radio (CBC 1) and BBC World Service instead of our media has been helpful. I make a difference where the local and temporal conditions make it possible, focusing on individuals primarily. I don’t worry about what I can’t respond to - that way lies madness, in my opinion.

Janneke was definitely a thoughtful, calm, and reasoned influence on so many threads. Seeing Blue Eyed Snake on a thread posting was always a welcome sight. Deep Deep Bows, Janneke. _/\_

I hope you know that the admins here are not your enemies. We don't all have huge amounts of free time to read, evaluate, and respond to EVERY post. Our hope is for a thoughtful, frictionless exchange of ideas in a peaceable, kindly spoken environment. Most of the threads and posts that get looked into are reported. If you see one that needs attention, please report it. If you feel you need to create one that needs attention, please don't. - Are you OK, Bob? Do you have anyone you can talk to about your feelings around what is going on in the world? You seem to be really struggling. Feel free to PM me if you need to check in with someone. _/\_

Hello Student Z, and welcome to the forum!

Some clarification: A "state" is a temporary experience that comes and goes, sometimes seemingly dependent on a single or multiplicity of circumstance. When that state fades, the persons experience goes back to the duality of "self" and another. This what we call "Kensho" in Zen. Complete realization is not a state (it does not come and go) but a realization of a permanent, underlying reality that is omnipresent. We call this "Satori". There is no reason why a koan should only lead to a "state". Truly, in any moment, something (anything) could be the event that appears to precipitate realization, though realization actually has nothing to do with causes and conditions, which are a "relative" construct. Initial realizations can be either "non-dual 1" (I AM), or "non-dual 2" (Emptiness/all appearances are enlightened). Every enlightened "being" I have ever met eventually realized "non-dual 2" eventually.

Where did you come by the name of your Holy Guardian Angel? Have you tried summoning your Holy Guardian Angel?

...just a note to say that while there are 4 admins and we are fairly responsive, when it comes to the operational "guts" of the board, we don't have any agency for the most part. This is likely the purview of the owner, who has other life priorities at this point.

We are still investigating, but the current consensus is that it has never worked very well. This may be normal behavior. If we get any further I’ll post to this thread.

Follow that path to the end and see what is there. That's just silly. Why would anyone (including me) do that? I am merely suggesting that if you aren't finding what you are looking for here, broaden your scope. I am here because I did just that, and still keep a hand in on a variety of Buddhist boards, Magick boards, and others that suit my interests as they arise.

Welcome to the board. I am sorry to say that discussion of Mo Pai was banned here many years ago. Having said that, topics on other Daoist schools and practices are plentiful. I hope you find something useful here.

You keep asking the same questions on the same board that represents non-dual viewpoints. It isn't a surprise that the answers come back in the same vein. Why not see if there are other boards you could add to your rotation that might be more in line with your belief system? I'm actually with you on this one. Theories and beliefs are just noise. What you can actually EXPERIENCE is what matters. What if what you eventually experience doesn't jibe with your hard fought for beliefs about how it is supposed to be that you have cobbled together? If you really want something novel, may I suggest reading Michael Singer's "Untethered Soul". I actually have ALL of my new students read it for the reason that presents and excellent system for releasing karma. Everything you could need is actually in it.

They aren't different. The Ten Thousand things (Form) arise and pass from emptiness:

In Buddhism karma is a relative teaching. It is YOUR story about your "self" and the world. The world appears as it does because of the story we tell about it. Without that story the world is a very different place. That purity of the "buddha-field" is enlightened mind, clear and still. We can get glimpses of this with an introduction to the "nature of mind", or "emptiness" with a teacher, or even on our own when the mind is still in meditation.

Agreed. The "Absolute" is only a pointer to a no-self/no-time/no-space construct that is omnipresent and unchanging. It is worth looking at how things are when the mind is still. The moment thoughts prevail a cloak goes over the mind, and the "Absolute" is obscured. The longer you can rest your mind in the stillness of the "Absolute" the deeper your appreciation of it gets. Yes! Just like the concept of the "Absolute", what we map is our story about how things are, not the deeper reality. Yes, what is pointed to by the concept "Absolute" is real, but thinking about how it must be obscures its nature. Bailey is pointing to it here, and tells you the mechanism of its obscuration: ...just as Seng T'san does here: Not at all. It is because we have identified with our thoughts, imagining that they are "I", instead of the clean, clear, empty awareness that is always below them. It is actually a very simple misconception. Examine this for yourself. What meaning exists when the mind is still and silent? This is DIRECTLY where to look.

My experience is that the stories we tell about the world are ultimately unsatisfactory because we know deep down that they are flawed for a reason we can't quite put a finger on. This was true for me, anyway. That reason is the Absolute. The story can be anything you want it to be, full of drama, purpose, and destiny, as long as you can let go of it being any kind of real, cohesive cosmology. If you are happy, that is sufficient. ...sorry, I couldn't resist.

Using your link - Bailey talks about the absolute reality on the first page... which is where it belongs, IMHO. The absolute isn't some crazy OTHER place or time in the universe, is it always RIGHT here, right now. Where you are, what is happening is reality. Full realization is seeing this absolute reality in this moment, all of the time. This is what enlightenment is. Enlightenment is what you are: You are not a person having an experience of awareness, you are awareness having the experience of a person. Notice how she says, "three aspects are to be conceived". The moment conception happens one is in la la land simply making things up. Right above that she says that Absolute is beyond the range of human thought and expression. I find that very interesting. She should have stopped there, I think. If you want to create a phenomenal (illusory) universe, the natural place to begin is with an "I". Most of the time, when your mind creates an illusory phenomenal universe this is where it starts. I starts like this: "I am late to my appointment". In the moment that you and the late appointment are created, so are "self" and "other", calendars, months, all cycles, time, space, lateness, earliness, etc. etc., in short, ALL dualities. The cascade happens a different way every time, though always beginning with self/other. It is easy to experiment with this. Learn to meditate until you are able to sit for short period of time with the mind still. Allow a thought to arise and watch as the thinking mind kicks in... the illusory story of reality is restored. It sounds a little crazy, but you do it over and over again every day.

Adapting your chosen non-dual spiritual system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pralaya#Atyantikapralaya Liberation, in this sense, is from all arisings and passings, from all dualities, and from the "I" that experiences them. That INCLUDES all of the previous "pralayas" and "periodic universes and existences, or it wouldn't be liberation. This is enlightenment. There is ultimately no "source" as a separate thing, no development, no human, no journey, no processes. As the Buddha says: When, when you mind is still, or when you think about it or read a book? I am familiar with the author, having read some Crowley and Golden Dawn stuff years ago, but not this book. Sounds interesting, but, like you, I'm more convinced by what I see.

Existence, as a term, implies something that has a reality of its own, which would be beyond the parameters of the Absolute. How could there be preconditions where the field of awareness and all of phantom separate objects in it have always already been enlightened? If someone had managed to create a solid set of preconditions for passing from duality to non-duality, wouldn't it have happened thousands of years ago? There IS value in reading the accounts of those that have done it, but that doesn't mean it will happen that way for "you". Every spiritual teaching takes a limited set of parameters and suggests you attempt to manipulate them in a way conducive to awakening. There IS some seeming consensus on which are the most important, but it is much tangled in language and practices. Ultimately what is being pointed to - what is trying to be realized - doesn't belong to any language or practice, and can't be realized by acting on a limited set of parameters. Here is my attempt at a simplified, but still corrupted-by-language description: What is needed is really a simple shift of perspective, noticing that the assumption that we are a "self" operating in a sea of separate things is illusory, created by constantly reinforcing a false belief. If you stop reinforcing the false belief it eventually collapses, since it has no reality beyond one's belief in it. The steps you list COULD be factors for someone, or not at all (to the degree that you deeply believe in "cosmic intent", and "light-body/aura") they reinforce a belief in one's separateness. Stages of enlightenment? There is only one realization. That realization doesn't change, but how deep it is, and what that means does. Just my opinion.