Shadow_self

Have you a measure of this, or any evidence that doesnt involve a nonverifiable verbal handmedown/personal testimony?

I would think that meditating on this point would be something worthwhile Hopefully the utility of his book will become apparent then Thats more a reference to a rather pointless side effect, that what the actual purpose of the YJJ and XSJ are Let me quote the book again Hopefully that makes it a bit clearer Are you aware of just how many times, and how many people have screwed these things up? The amount of people that think Jing = Sperm is crazy. Not at all So the best you are getting here from those texts in my opinion is reference to some things that are partially true, and many misunderstangs, via which the end result is always confusion (100% of the time)

I dont see much in the way of evil co-opting practices for nefarious purposes A few money grabbers? Check A few delulded people pretending they are something other than they are? check A neverending supply of impotent teachings that are effictively wheelspinning? check Understanding the mechanics of something is one thing, actually putting them into practice and getting them to work is another thing entirely in my opinion at least As long as the latter escapes them (and I think that will always be the case) I remain happy enough

There are plenty of trained people in my opinion But this corporatisation of everything is just another way to bastardize and strip apart what should be a sacred tradition Fix the absolutely disgraceful sorry state that society is in, and most mental health problems disappear But theres no profit in that...god no, why would be go curing something. End a profit stream? Blasphemy Bonus round...how many people do you think in the Masaii tribe suffer from the conditions that are our current mental health crisis?

Youd need to ask them, Im sure they all have their own ways One thing I personally observe, is that things are leaking out over time because bits and pieces have leaked out, and they are often only partially true (or not at all) and sometimes harmful So it seems like access to the tantric foundational work is opening up as a reaction to that in one sense I also believe there is something else at play, but Im unwilling to delve into that

My experience is related to the former stages, because these things happen sequentially. Dont be fooled. Marrow depth is a very admirable achievement indeed Here, allow me to help, courtesy of Damo Mitchell (as the five stages of the YJJ also, book linked below) And remember, none if this is feeling qi, it is feeling the way qi is interacting with the body I will present a piece of advice to you, and you may do as you wish You would do well to leave the biology at the front door for a while. Trying to overlay western reductive materailistic frameworks over eastern concepts = fast path to disaster These things are clearly discussed in the traditions and have their own theories and frameworks that are empirically verifiable via adoption of the practices and diligence The teachings around the Huang and building, conducting and moving qi in the body are clear, and my suggestion to anyone is to approach them with an empty cup, lest one go in casting all manner of self distortion, bias and heuristics over them Feel free to disregard the advice, I certainly dont gain anything by you taking it. (by the way, ive a psychophysical/neuroscientific background, so it isnt like i dont see the allure, I just learned better over time) Again, you might want to look at what some of the practitioners (like freeform) have said on this forum about the jhanas They are not what you (or what most people think) Playing mental limbo where the bar keeps getting progressively lowered over time is how we wound up here in the first place They are a million miles away. The most accurate description of even coming close to 1st Jhana is here imo (link attached) Except he has not, because Either he does not understand either he Or the translator does not understand what they are saying (or both) Honestly, I am not sure you understand what you are looking at here, so thats further muddying the waters And given the atrocious nature of the text and conversation, I cant fully make the distinction myself, so dont take me up the wrong way, However, I will do my best, and I will assume He is referring to is the Jing Hua, the spark of Yang contained within the Jing. In terms of neidan this is extracted and worked with. I am not sure it is the marrow depth of the Yijinjing, because he is mentioning jing and sperm here, so I assume its the former Getting back to the Jing Hua, It is the central Yang line within the water hexagram (Also known as true yang within yin) Both men and women do neidan So the male work is in relation to the reworking of the substance within the sexual fluids For females, it is related to the menstrual blood https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/A_Comprehensive_Guide_to_Daoist_Nei_Gong/4mpnDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover I strongly suggest a thorough read of this with a highlighter

Point being that Qi pressurizes inwards as it continues to build until it penetrates the bones Any teacher of proper neigong/neidan will explain this to you Point is as mentioned above I am, please see below Here is a description of whats happening at each stage of the Yi Jing Jing process(Tendon changing). The process that I work on as one aspect of training If you are talking about hanging the flesh off the bones, yes you are taught that almost immediately. It is the basic starting point of qigong and neigong, the recalibration of the body and huang....see the first two stages above This discussion of the bones is not related to the marrow washing aspect, aside from the point that you need to begining the process of hanging the flesh from the bones to begin working on the YJJ process It is also a couple of million miles away from anything related to Jhana You are clearly quite fond of directing to public figures words. OK While much of what I am talking about has been mentioned in passing for donkeys years, the actual mechanics behind the process....are only recently starting to become public knowledge It might be better to suspend disbelief. The man in quesiton has actually spoke about the process I have mentioned (albiet not in the exact layout, but if you can add 2+2 then) He has spoken about qi and whatnot penetrating the bones. Here use google https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&gl=uk&tbm=bks&q=marrow+cheng+man+ching&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjx-Y2Qo5eAAxWLBcAKHQUYB6QQBSgAegQIERAB&biw=1280&bih=569&dpr=1.5

You are free to believe whatever you like. I gain nothing at all by trying to convince you Ensuring that others who want to understand the mechanics of how these thiings actually work is my motivation for posting. I only do that because, many of the contributors to the site have ceased posting...So the place has slowed down Having been shown YJJ principles from several sources, this is actually how it works If "book descriptions" are things you find satisfactory, thats fine More on peoples practical experiences of "marrow" being literal here. Might be worth having a discussion with a few of Wang Lipings longer term students,

Sounds like Wuji My knoledge of Dzogchen is limited, but as far as I understood it, it was a series of practices, not just 1 right? I would think only in the context of employing the right practices yes Theres a little bit more on how I understand the jhanas to be here. Theres quite a few good posts on them Can you have the type of insight we are talking about while being "us" @Creation gave a very good breakdown of the differences between types of insight I do think that insight (type 1) builds as a byproduct of practice. Type 2 if you would...well that requires degrees of removal beyond what Id understand lay practitioners to be able to routinley drop into Just as many unusual things have happened me off the cusion than on it to be honest. In fact the most profound ones came when they were least expected The example I gave, Im not sure if it is a siddhi so to speak, more like a sign of transformation I should also state, I find the whole "energy emission" as proof of attainment a useless metric (probably the worst in fact) Not only can it be faked by an external machine. People who have the ability can pump it into folk and they can temporarily do it, or people can artifically charge their lower field using electrictiy. They can also take external pills and whatnot Indeed it should, i agree. But for every person that talks the talk, how many walk the walk? My experience has been that only a handful of people I probably didnt phrase it well I meant when observation reverses, awareness sees itself unbound by the sense faculties The image above (the moon) is related to that ) I would say the are periods of transition, A waxing and waning if you would

The image above details the process. You build qi until it reaches a point that it presses its way into the bones. The stages of the Yijinjing are Skin Depth Sinew Depth Channel Depth Viscera Depth Marrow Depth This is a nod to the depth that the qi is penetrating

Zen is outside my realm of understanding so no comments here Though I do know some who speak highly So only insight? or is there something else going on there? Ah the twin kammaṭṭhāna One way I work uses Samatha (and some other things) to work towards jhana to get to a place you can use Vipassana. Having the Bojjhaṅgas finely tuned equates to the ability to work within this space I dont think we are talking about the same things here, and thats ok As far as my understanding goes, once you get involved with the upper 4 jhanas, you get into the rainbow and light bodies etc All manner of weird things begin happening even at the first stages of entry and stabilization of the lower jhanas (think light, visible to others externally) In other words, the perspectice I am talking about would be that entering and stabilizing the jhanas should come with fairly profound psychophysical changes and abilities (for want of a better word) Yes I suspected we have definitions that are rather divergent. You may have noted from my sentances regards the complete detachement from sensory conciousness as a pre-requisite Yes, I understand I happen to have been fortunate enough to come across a few people who have given me hints, tips, tricks, methods, teachings, and a few links to some pre-reform Buddhist practices, so when you start hearing about how things were done vs how they currently are, it starts to make a bit more sense (I am talking here from the Theravadan perspective only) The emphasis on Vipassana over Jhana for example is a relatively new phenomena, it certainly was not how things were always done Samatha practices would be the way to work towards the jhana Samatha leads to Jhana which affords one the opportunity to use vipassana and that leads to very esoteric transformations. from the perspective Im coming from at least However, thats just one perspective, im not claming any ultimate truth here This sounds like Zuowang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuowang Does this look familar? Yes, more or less awarness kind of reversing on top of itself to see source. This is basically what happens at the point of death, it is an involuntary thing in that case though (Curiously, the image above makes a lot more sense when framed in that context ) Indeed so. Doing tantric work (pjysical practices) alongside meditative practices seems to really ramp up the weird though Likewise Most interesting to hear your perspective

His is about the only story I give credence too. Well his and the military stuff thats coming to the forefront now, Also what happened in Varginha is not easily dismissed I tend to take Bob at his word, I dont see his motive for lying (unlike insert name here who makes a living off it) Yes we live in that age now. But the compartmentalization within pockets of power in an organisation doesnt surprise me. It amazes me that it took them this long to get under it Interesting discussion here on the legislation.

I agree. There seems to be a mechanism here where they are missing some sense of purpose or achievement in the real world, and so sink into the digital one instead Another example, you see people who things like, bad food etc, can be alchohol, whatever it might be The thing is, though that might be supposedly good "physically speaking" it can potentially be catastrophic in terms of what it does to your mind psychologicaly Its almost like a kind of twisted clinging where you detach from something completely, assosicate it with disgust or fear or something, and instead cling tightly to a mental position. Of course if the body affects the mind, vice versa applies and so, much of the "good" is cancelled out This goes from being a concious thing to an unconcious thing, and then starts to birth karmic entanglements...and pretty bad ones at that It seems to me that one should strike balance where they can do something, enjoy it in the moment, and not feel compelled to crave it or chase it. Moreover mindfulness is paramount here. There is a reason monastery life is so regimental, nothing is done unconciosuly and so all is done with the ability to spot negative attributes and not let them past the barrier of the concious mind

Is this not the plight of the modern world? Also you are correct...there is far bigger problem with people doing anything to get their dopamine fix, as opposed to just taking drugs The latter is one of many symptoms of the former

Why not just create 1 thread called Ajay's drug addiction, trafficking and violence thread and keep it all there? Seems a far more organized and logical way to discuss the topic than a bunch of disjointed threads that are all more or less about the same thing

Id say Bob Lazar has to be the best source of information on this Heres a far lesser known tape he put together in the early days Very much worth the 40 mins of anyones time who is interested in the science behind this, and he ends with some of the general info Hers a cliff notes of part 2 where Bob relays some of the information he was shown during his initial briefing for the project (This for those who cannot or dont want to watch the whole thing) Discussing the origin of the craft as Zeta Reticuli star system (Where Betty and Barney hill say the beings that abducted them came from. In this case, the beings supposedly come from Reticuli 4 (1 day here = 90 hours in earth time) Beings weigh 25-50 pounds and 3-4 feet tall (hairless) Visiting earth for a long time, and were able to produce photographic evidence that was over 10,000 years old Exchange of hardware and information program in Nevada until 1979, when a "conflict" led to the programs termination Beings left, but were to return at a date written in a format not understood US Govt started the back-engineering program with this hardware and information Aliens relayed information about how to manipulate the brain to anesthetize the human body without any physical contact from a remote source Brain needs to be in a relaxed state, similar to hypnosis. If it is subject to any external simulation, the method is ineffective They stated that man was the product of externally corrected evolution Man as a species has been genetically altered 65 times Refer to humans as "containers" but Bob is unaware what this means

This requires a practice aligned with the Abhidhamma (or put another way, the doctrine of dependant origination) There comes a point where you begin to gain actual insight and perception (literal not metaphorical) of how things manifest and demanifest, right down the the smallest level of physical particles in the universe (rupa kalapas) Theres nothing imaginary or made up here. Just a lot of grafting and whatnot Most associated with Theravadan Practice (though the perception of that word in my opinion has be sullied, as more modern iterations are somewhat removed from the lesser known original practices)

He had moved away from the property he was at prior to this, towards the coast. Given that, I would be inclined to say yes (As he hardly relocated all of them with him)

Turning the light around is when conciousness folds in on itself. Its not so much as "you" looking at awareness, as "awareness" looking at itself It happens at the point of death, or when one can remove themselves from senses properly (not as simple as people think) This is one passing through the "gateway of heaven" so to speak Karma starts to do its thing, and here in the midst of this place is where the opportunity occurs Theres a mechanism here I cannot really openly discuss, but suffice to say, it is no accident that you hear of people coming back from NDE's with siddhi's abilities and profound levels of understanding that escape most people

He was in heart failure, and then passed of a heart attack

I am not persoanlly convinced of that. I have a very different understanding of things, which I will use quotes already on this forum from a friend below to illustrate (meaning I dont need to say anything that has not already been said) Perhaps we can, define insight. I say that because we may not be talking about the same things Realization of what however? Of course, but what are we actually trying to do here with the Vipassana? First few? If true, that is an impressive feat indeed ( I mean that non sarcasitically I promise). But again, how are we defining jhana here? any of this sound familiar? The reason I quote this is that I have been given a somewhat similar description of Jhana. Heres a little bit more on Shen ming I was clumsy with words A teacher will confirm that you have achieved say the 1st Jhanna - not when you’ve experienced the state, but when you’ve stabilised it and can enter it reasonably predictably. First experiencing it and ‘achieving’ it can be many years apart. (Or can even never happen.) For many of the pure Jhanna-based systems (which is not my main lineage) Jhanna is used as a preparation for death. The idea is to enter Jhanna at the moment of death - and this will impact the process of transmigration. If you can’t enter Jhanna predictably you can’t use it in this way - as far as I understand it, that’s why ‘achieving’ it is emphasised. This also brings up questions (it did for me)… what if you die suddenly from an accident!? My understanding is that then you’re out of luck… which explains the need for monastic life which makes accidental death a little less likely. Daoism is a little different in that (apologies for completely mixing very different traditions and mental models) - in that it builds what you might call a ‘Jhannic body’… you effectively create form out of the formless on a higher level of existence. A form that is as ‘real’ (and energetically ‘dense’) as your physical body. When death comes, your consciousness is automatically pulled to the higher state - in the way that gravity pulls an apple to the ground. And this is how transmigration is affected. I bring this up because, as far as I have been taught (not Daoist stuff) The pre-requisite for Vipassana to actually do its job (as outlined below) is to experience and begin to stabilize Jhana. But enough about that...this is why I disagree about the relationship between Vipassana and Jhana So the earliest stages of even coming close to Jhana requires disengagement from sensory conciousness As you can imagine, disengagement from sensory conciousness = a similar experience to the death process Daoists would label this akin to "turning the light around" The approach I take is a rather odd one, from a not so well known practice that works with nimitta in various ways to bring about transformation. Curious stuff, beyong the scope of this really. Another thread, another time perhaps Id personally take Beth Upton on Jhana rather than Leigh to be honest. Though again, what Ive been told has some deviations from what she says (again though i do imagine her approach is simplified for the public...we share a very strong focus on the Abhidhamma) . I'm not exactly aligned with Pau Auk or anything, ill just take truth wherever I can get it, and she speaks clearly on many topics. Though we still do have some variations, I see far more merit in what she gives out

OP The advice above is about as good as you will get. Everything you will need to keep you busy for a long time is outlined in that post There is nothing "secret" regards getting started in this work anymore. I will repeat it. There is nothing secretive about getting the foundations down anymore. The doors are open on this stuff now. But theres a lot of work beyond it Anyone who says otherwise is honestly unclear about how this stuff works, and usually has a hidden agenda

Necessary for what exactly? My understanding would be vipsassana without jhana is not very useful, and to enter jhana and stabilize it takes a long time away from society.

Personally, Id suggest that you forget about both book The former is unintelligble without a teacher (and there have been far better versions and interpretations of Wang Lipings practices released since. Nathan Brines is the best available, far better than both versions of the Ling Bao available The latter, I believe to be a rather problematic texts (with some interesting bits sparsely located across it) Damo Mitchells Comprehensive Guide is undoubtedly the best text you will get on the topic of how the Yijinjing actually works (Which is the foundations mentioned) Practically speaking, you are better off to work with a teacher but this isnt immediately available to everyone. The book will give you some good theoretical insight and practical tips Damo gives out a bunch of free practices on his youtube as well, heres a link for you If you are struggling for money, then my suggestion, join his academy on a monthly basis, study the free material in the library and open the first few videos of the program. Use your time wisely and take detailed notes. The book will make a lot more sense if you do that. You can then rejoin when you have a little more money, and work on the videos like that I can say this fairly confidently, youd struggle a lot to find better material. One thing thats important (that I see lacking in almost everyone I speak to, is an understanding of the mechanisms When you understand the mechanics you understand the condition, and the condition is what leads to actual change and real results, rather than just fleeting experiences

It is a curious thing then, that when conciousness is detached from the senses, and the faeces thrown hits the rubber wall and bounces back, and the person is not longer wearing the "protective gear", what tends to happen Of course this is a realisation that for most does not come in life, only in death. But there are some who have straddled that line, be it via practice, or a series of unfortuate events (or both) The "insult to injury" is only all the more severe due to the realisation they've created their own suffering Then the above is clearly something you are more than familar with Ohh now we are getting to the tricky questions arent we Consider the difference between a person who wants food only because they need to sustain their life, having shed all notions of pleasure associated vs a person who delights and craves food for various reasons My take on it would be as follows The latter gives weight and substance to the former, however, not all that plays out during the reincarnation process is desire alone, only a rather important facet. However, you are touching on a most important stage, and I sincerely hope my answer doesnt take away from that.