Shadow_self

Ah the typical evasion approach...I'll bash these teachers, but dont dare ask me who mine is Also I don't think you need to I think its kind of clear enough to anyone with a bit of discernment its him I am not concerned whether you stick by it or not I am concerned with whether you can substantiate it So far...well no But that's not surprising really. I am open to reading your replies, and being wrong However, I'm not going to hold my breath, because I already know that you cant answer those questions honestly without revealing all the holes in your statements A minute ago you should it should all be free? You're already contradicting yourself There's nothing wrong with offering some foundational training online Beyond a certain point in person training is necessary, but in the modern world, todays world, people should have access to an entry point, whether or not they can traverse Asia. I don't see where the problem is, especially if their lineage permits it Or are you now permitted to state what other lineages do is right and wrong (again without naming your own)

Im sure they do, Seeing as you keep saying it, do you care to name yours? How do you know their level Follow up If they arent, how do you know the person who authorised them to teach is not of that level? Have you met each one and personally verified their attainments? Moreover have you, as a self proclaimed beginner the capacity to do so (rhetorical question here) And you know this how? Did any of them call themselves masters? Or are you putting words in their mouths? Did they make this claim? Or are you creating a strawman? Can you see? If so, how? Why? Don't worry, so far you aren't. Though you could offer some substantiation in your answers, so I hold an open mind Is it? how so And that is a problem why exactly? Damo personally helped me, on more than one occasion. Pretty sure im not deluded in that regard Which is a problem why? They get to continue on their journey by helping others to start theirs Seems pretty fair to me. You must have other ideas Which is a problem why again? Funny, I spent a number of years in academia. In my first semester of teaching I was responsible for over 1000 students Oh wait, you must mean nobody can teach internal arts to a thousand students Umm why? Can you show me where he's personally passed people off, or told them they must go to another teacher Not hearsay or conjecture mind you, actual proof? And you know this how? Keeping in mind you call yourself a beginner As pretty much all schools do (anyone saying otherwise is telling a lie) Again, I await your evidence that this is the case? Because a beginner is qualified to make this statement? And you are an authority on how things should progress why exactly? Why? Can you please show me where they have marketed themselves as neidan masters? I can see that Do you? Follow up question. Do you recognize the flaws in the abundance of claims you made? Most foundational work isn't spiritual You would think a person making the claims you have made here would know this Why? I have one teacher who teaches me for free. I have another who I pay. Doesn't bother me, and I don't think think I'm entitled to free training from anyone. Do you? Definitely not the Damo I've interacted with. But you must have had closer interactions with him than me to make such claims So by all means, feel free to tell me, how is that the case? Did you know Jesus too? Why? I apologise for the amount of questions you now have to respond to. However you have made a lot of claims, none of which you've really given a strong basis for Claims require good evidence, more than just blanket statements for validity You are welcome to an opinion (a beginners opinion by your own admission, making much of those statements highly questionable) But claims do require a bit more that x=fraud Also I asked you a question about your teacher in an opposite thread. You failed to respond Are you going to name them, or can I just assume you are one of AA Khokhlov's (you give me that vibe)

Because I'm not an experienced practitioner to all of this I could throw a less knowledgeable light on it Anytime I have approached anything "spiritual" in my practice, it has always struck me as unlike anything else. Its not something I like to post about, seems a bit too intimate, but ill try to give a sense of my own feeling if it adds to the discussion I say approach because any of my experiences were as far as I can tell, on the peripheries and edges rather than engulfed in it The experiences, while they left me dumbstruck, awestruck, terrified, There was a commonality amongst them This didnt even hit me fully until afterwards It was terrifying because my ego was not ready to approach it (It still isnt) It left me in awe because it answered doubts I had about what the nature of reality is (A lot of them have left) It left me dumbstruck because I didnt try to make it happen, (I still dont what mechanic I triggered for it to arise) Also I need to be honest, these were experiences, not "progress", not at all. But something interesting @freeformmentioned and I think it speaks to the nature of spirit The main takeaway I had from it all, was that that discrimination is pointless, because underneath the cover of what we perceive as reality is a constant, lets call it 1 Everything is of that constant 1 If you can experience beyond the layers of the sense faculties and your mind, you will come to approach this. Its quite scary if you arent ready for it. I know I couldn't approach it even if I wanted to beyond even a cursory view of the edges. My mind can just about process it intellectually, but in no way am I ready to experience it So when people start discriminating bad from good, tasty from disgusting and so forth. A person who has realised and embodies the original self, they have no such capacity for this distinction And there are some very unusual means of expressing , or even approaching this The Aghoras of India...take a look at how they live...Its baffling, but an example of how they practice non discrimination I should add, I dont endorse or support the Aghori practices, I was just illustrating the point about non-discrimination

Please don't open that can of worms. PLEASE

This is a very well written post, I enjoy the perspective and relation to Christianity. Interestingly, I actually go to that same thing to describe spirituality to people Unfortunately its often lost on them that the spiritual path is about subtraction (at least in my experience) This is the illustration I use to help describe how to approach things spiritually, though they often recoil in disgust as it is derived from biblical passages Its far from perfect by any means, but in terms of a quick cursory overview, there's quite a bit to be gleaned for one who is new to it all Basically, my line is, Take note. If you aren't working towards getting past those outside layers of the onion, you aren't getting to the center It usually helps get the point across a little easier with a visual aid to support the explanation I agree with this wholeheartedly. Its one of those things that people immediately balk at if we discuss it, so I try to avoid it if I can People don't like to be confronted with hard truths about their own behaviors, and normally, there is a limbic defensive, often aggressive reaction Understanding this, of course doesn't make anyone "holier than thou". The question then, is who is willing to admit to themselves these things and do something about them, or just continue on as normal?

This x 1000 Problem: I wish i could be spiritual but I like sex Proposed pretend solution: I know, I can have spiritual sex This is the actual type of crap people will say and do. Anything to justify what they want Actual solution: Challenge desires and rise above them But nobody wants to do the hard work. Why do that when you can just orgasm your way to to the top of the mountain There isnt enough palms and faces on the planet :/

The crux of the matter is this to be entirely honest You may not see the attachment in your words, but for someone who understands the principles of cultivation (At even a basic level), you may not realise what you are talking about is the polar opposite of what they are hoping to achieve Things like alchemy and the likes (proper cultivation aimed at moving towards spirit) , requires desire to be extinguished. This is not limited to sex, and it is not up for debate. If this doesn't happen you are meeting a brick wall in terms of progress. If you want a real approach to sex and spirituality that is harmonious with progress and healthy, then it is actually away from pleasurable sensation you need to move. In this case as freeform mentioned, you must go beyond the senses, not constantly dive deep into them Contrast that with your opening post about immersing yourself in the sense faculties They don't mix So it isn't that anyone's prejudice or judging, its telling you that your approach is not in line with spiritual teachings. Anyone selling you that story is selling you a lie (unsurprisingly Also as a caveat, if you do have extra qi built, you can actually hurt someone pretty bad if you don't understand the concept of keeping you emotions calm. You may be surprised to learn that the lower base animal instinct emerges during the physical act of sex...and with that, a serious degradation in terms of emotional regulation. This is where the hair pulling, choking, biting and dominance come to the forefront Might be something to ponder

Oh im not saying he didnt say it, I just haven't heard it from him. Do you have a timestamp by any chance? I must have missed that

If how literal certain concepts turned out to be that one would imagine weren't so literal Im hazarding a guess

Russian school? There are Buddhist lines that do alchemy too, Im not too sure of the mechanisms at the higher levels. Similarities but differences. Big emphasis on embodied methods however. Some use seated methods only, some use standing methods only (one of my friends is in a line like this) Ive tried to explain this to several people about the ming/xing distinction after I first came across it when researching different lineages There's a few good points here if anyone is interested https://www.academia.edu/7774666/Destiny_Vital_Force_or_Existence_On_the_Meanings_of_Ming_命_in_Daoist_Internal_Alchemy_and_its_Relation_to_Xing_性_or_Human_Nature I cant say I've ever heard Damo say alchemy should be used for fuelling meditative states. I have heard him say something else about energetic use and meditative states, but not that

Listen to freeform...he knows exactly what he is talking about. You can sit around all day on this forum, reddit and the likes, and talk to people who dont understand these things. He is one of the rare few that does You need to understand this now, and Im about to be very straight with you There is no kundalini practice available in the public sphere. You cannot just randomly walk into a class and start this, or learn it from public teachers. The process of kundalini awakening, the details are laid out above, it takes about a decade of nonstop full time training, and this is actual yogis we are talking about Ignore anyone on reddit who mentions the word kundalini, they are feeding your problem, not helping you Ignore anyone on here who tells you you've had an "awakening". This is not the case A real awakening is something different entirely. It is a million miles away from what you are describing Now you can either listen, and start fixing this problem, or continue as you are The choice is 100% yours Yes and he is right. It is you, and anyone else who thinks they understand what kundalini is that is feeding this line of misinformation I appreciate you are trying to find meaning, but you are hurting yourself and it needs to stop Kundalini when it awakens, the siddhi that come with it, lets just say marvel couldn't invent a movie weird enough You are also underestimating the movement of Yang Qi or things like prana up the back into the head, it can cause all sorts of issues, including siddhi type phenomena like subtle vision, reading peoples thoughts, and other weird phenomena Now, as to why I am telling you to go for an MRI When you release certain energies, often the effect is related to the size of "pocket" you release. In your case, it seems you've touched on a not so small one If that moves, and it latches onto any stagnation anywhere it can cause growth..that's includes tumors and the likes This is why you are being told to go to see a neurologist. Some of your physical symptoms warrant an MRI to exclude the possibility of a tumor (or several) compressing a nerve (or bundle of them) As an example, I was recounted a story of one such (highly trained) individual who released a very large pocket of it...he was dead within a few days Im saying this one more time for emphasis, because you simply dont understand how this stuff works Listen to freeform, hes trying to help you

If you look at the past history of drug/alcohol/medication misuse and a head injury that lead to epilepsy, its not a stretch to imagine there may be some issues taking place at the physical level People also overlook just how much damage you can do with things like contrived breathing/muscular tension. mjjbecker recounted an anecdote where someone incorrectly practicing the mo pai blew a valve in their heart. This was why I suggested a battery of neurological tests alongside freeform's recommendations. With something like this, its best to attack it from every angle and leave no stone unturned. If nothing showed up, great, one less thing to worry about. If it does show up, then you are one step closer to sorting the issue out Of course if someone doesn't want to take good advice, then they are beyond help. All we can do as people is put it out there and hope they do

I don't think people are being negative, merely questioning the utility of it Ill spare you the long explanation (because its going to cause drama if I do go into it), but this isn't an aura you are seeing. It has to do with the cone and rod cells of the eye Heres a more helpful tip If you want to develop subtle vision, then train in neigong. To cut to the chase, it involves a quite profound change (one that's not subtle, oddly enough) In short, its a lot harder (and a lot weirder) than you might think

Better just to not engage with certain users. They aren't worth your time. Everything is an energy exchange, and some people aren't worth that price Eventually people will get sick of talking to themselves (Pay close attention, and you'll see it happening already)

Unless you have the dedication, time, lineage, methods and teacher, id not concern yourself about experiencing it Its not something that's within the grasp of anyone with an even halfway normal life imo

The problem is much of what people are told is incorrect I can think of example after example over the years, from all traditions where something is categorized systematically, and yet, doesnt do the things it should. Kundalini is probably the best example of this, where you have all these people claiming to have had an awakening, yet, the markers are not there. Where are the advanced siddhis that come with this process? Daoist lines are the same. Many people claiming to give practices that work with the dan tian, only for the truth to be the people doing them have no actual dan tian whatsoever Vajrayana, people being told to practice with the central channel, and they don't have a proper central channel The list just goes on and on and on. More and more confusion, more and more claims, yet, nothing of substance There's too many reasons for this. But one thing is for sure. We need to be clear about these things. Of all of them, Kundalini is probably the worst, because everyone thinks they've touched on it, yet its the one that's actually so far away its comical

I honestly dont concern myself with the models histories too much. I know of the ones mentioned by Christopher Wallis, the 7 and the 5 The western tradition use models on top of the endocrine glands, some daoist lines have a 7 or 9 model also Because the chakras arent part of what I do, I dont concern myself with it, other than trying to have a basic understanding of some of the processes. Overconsumption of book knowledge is not the best thing in terms of practice. Its better to be concerned with the practice itself, and where you are at with it But even with my basic knowledge of these things, its important to correct errors, especially with whats happening here. Too much misunderstanding and misinformation In this case, you have someone convinced they've awoken the pinnacle of human achievement, by mistake, and its seriously harmed them physically (and destroyed them psychologically) Understanding that this is not whats happening , and bringing this down a few pegs is important

Hes talking about kundalini awakening, not the full potential. Thats a different matter again To even get the Kundalini to stir , there needs to be a combining of the two Bindi (These are not Prana/Apana as David mentioned), then that creates the fire that David mentioned which is sent down that stirs the kundalini...you cant stir it before that The full potential, that's when the kundalini goes all the way up, it merges with another energy that sent down and it descends down and all the chakras are burned open when it goes down. That's the full potential of it

Please listen to the video... You cannot tamper with the kundalini before this point You can screw up one of the stages of it...in this case the pranayama and that can lead to the release of some latent energy Something similar happens in Daoist practices, where you can touch on pockets of latent Yang Qi that release and cause all manner of weird symptoms Its not an awakening, its not even close to it

I'm repeating the words of teachers who know the processes, practices and so forth. People with far more knowledge, experience and most importantly, attainments than I. I've also happened to have had the process (not the methods) explained to me. Here is David Verdesi clearing up some of the facts around Kundalini TLDR : It is a very precise process, you wont be doing it by mistake It takes around 12 years of nonstop training 6-8 hours per day He's only met a handful of Yogis (not people) have done it (and hes just talking about the awakening part, not completing the process) He's confident anything anyone is calling a kundalini awakening is not kundalini awakening Its Udana prana that people are moving I dont even like David, I find his ethics questionable at best, but he knows what he is talking about. These things were also repeated to me by my teachers, and others teachers who have actual attainments, and aren't just spouting nonsense I find it quite sad that people are throwing around words like kundalini, chakra, jhana when they don't actually understand just how far away from these things they are. Its a nice way to sell a book, or sell a seminar. But it is so far away from the reality of the matter, its just ridiculous Its also a nice way for someone to slap a label on something they experienced to give it some kind of meaning. But its incorrect, simply untrue and needs to stop, because its confusing, misleading and downright wrong

That is not a Kundalini awakening There is no coming back down or "normal" after a kundalini awakening I really wish people would stop throwing this term around.

You dont have to be ready to write it off, if you understand the process behind it. You will be able to discern pretty quickly, what is actually happening Let me describe it to you using an analogy Imagine there is a package in the north pole, and in this package there is locked chest with lets say 7 locks (hypothetically) You ultimate goal is to get to the chest and unlock it You are at the south pole, To get to the box, you must fly to 7 different cities In each city there is a key for one of the locks. In order to get this key you must complete a series of tasks Proof that you completed the tasks and have the key is required for you to board each flight to the next city. As you progress on your quest, each task becomes more arduous, more challenging, more elusive, takes longer and requires more skills that you may not even have. Something can go wrong during each task of course...but none of that is going to affect the chest, which is at the other side of the world. Now lets sum up The Pranayama aspects of yoga, in terms of kundalini, is in the earlier stages. It will not affect the Kundalini so simply What will affect it, is when you have reach "the chest" and are trying to open the locks I hope this makes sense

It would take me all day to pick apart that website...I just posted that section because it was easy to fit into a quote box. Ill pull one example from each just to give you an example There is absolutely no way in hell you could release and activate the kundalini without knowing it. For starters, the amount of prior work that has to go into it is phenomenal. There are aspects of the bindu, amrita and so forth...it takes a damn long time and serious effort. The you also have 1. The Siddhi that come with it, which are just insane 2. The pain that comes with it, which is the most amount of pain a human can experience 3. The fact that you will never be able to live a normal life if this is awakened, because of what takes place And they are calling it something that can happen unknowingly? Seriously? There are literally a handful of people on the planet who have this achievement. This isn't a lower level achievement, like qi emission or whatever, that dedicated practitioners can reach after a period of proper training. You are literally talking about something, that takes the human body to the absolute highest potential it can reach in the mortal world. It is exceptionally rare and the transformation that takes place as a result of it is beyond comprehension. The complete and utter bastardisation of this term is getting seriously old, and very bothersome

I'm calling absolute, 100% bull**** on this right now, and I rarely make such a claim. Nice way to get people to part with their money, convincing them they have a Kundalini related issue