Shadow_self

Why not go through the process for people.... Seeing as you mention its a core skill of a magus...You must be very familiar with the mechanics? What are the conditions needed for it to arise? What are the somatic feelings one experiences? How can you tell the difference between an actual conscious separation vs a lucid dream?

There are tonnes of "teachers" who haven't got stream entry regularly draining the pockets of individuals. I refrain from naming people here...but the signs are VERY clear. But to the point. I never mentioned potent "spiritual" method? I said potent method. Not every system is designed to take one to the depths of spirit... The practices for neigong can be taken to a high level by a complete and total asshole...hence my point. Once you start doing neidan...well yeah that "assholeness" is going to get in the way at a certain point. Energy 101 - If you are an asshole, it doesn't stop you from building energy...It just makes you more of an asshole the more you build Energetic development and spiritual development are not as tightly coupled as people would like to believe in the beginning...there is a junction point down the line however This is one of the reasons I actually enjoy having a Buddhist teacher as well as one for neigong/neidan, as it forces a good balance of mind and body practices If you arent dealing with your "BS" as fast as you are building energy...that's a nice recipe for problems imo

I tended to shy away from Bruce's work...no particular reason, I just never had any attraction towards it That being said A teacher can be a complete ass and still have a potent method. I know enough stories about teachers doing all sorts of shady crap...including ones who are near worshipped by people on this board (and others) A teacher can also have a potent method and be incapable of transmitting it correctly...Whether that be ego, poor understanding, a a bad personality or just no teaching ability whatsoever. I do not know if either are true about the man in question, but that is worth pointing out regardless Incidentally, a quick google search brings up 20 year old threads (thats not a typo)....and he doesnt seem to have had a good reputation then... Make what you will of that.

Basically this is my issue with the whole modern use of terminology. It is little more than creating participation trophies in the form of redefining titles or practices to induce experiences because you want people to stick around. For someone who knows no better, thats one thing...but for someone of lineage...they should It doesn't help anyone long term, and as outlined by you, can actually hurt progress Thank you for providing the example. The reason I take issues with the term (and others) is the very confusing situations that arise all around...See below Person A: "I had a kundalini awakening" Shadow : "Oh, tell me about it" Person A " I had the heat move up my back back and into my head and then I started seeing things, then I couldn't sleep" Shadow: "Thats not kundalini" Person A "Proceeds to have an absolute fit of rage" Shadow "Sigh" The thing is...if it was a rare occurrence, that'd be ok...except it isn't. Bastardisation of terminology (and culture) has become the norm, and actually, using terms in the way they were intended become the exception to the rule. So countless situations like the above arise...and you end up with a lot of delusional folk, a few angry ones, a few sad ones... and then...there's me

Somehow I don't believe it is. A rather convenient way to dodge the origin of the term point though. Best wishes to you too

You shouldn't bereally...I dont think I could have been clearer in my assertion I have literally spent the entire thread explaining how these terms are detached from their intended meaning And you now want me to go and look up a western dictionary....Sigh. Heres a better idea....go and ask an accomplished teacher with verifiable siddhi what meditation means...see what response you get. Once you have that, write it down verbatim. Following that, contrast it with dictionary definitions available Then hopefully you will no longer be #1 be puzzled by my response and #2 suggest anyone look up the dictionary definition of meditation I am really not too interested in Patanjalis categorial use of the term. Look at the etymology of the term...and what it refers to practically. In each tradition it is very obvious that Samadhi is referring to focused concentration. Its clear enough to anyone with the developments, or a teacher with the developments. Focused concentration proper leads to a building of the substance which in turn is one of the factors needed to enter into a meditative state

I am saying that the manner in which I am using the term is the way in which it is originally intended to be used. So yes I am saying it is the only valid one. And Ill explain why I am saying it See below Well it kind of does....words have meaning. In the spiritual path a misunderstanding is not as simple as correction, it can be detrimental. So i take issue with anyone using that term in a manner other than it was intended. Nobody has any real right to start redefining it For a start, meditation cannot arise as a result of one process, it takes several and the results of each one have to synchronise for it to happen. So it is almost as if its a recipe that requires the all of the right ingredient in the right amount at the right time When you start confusing process and product do you know what it leads to Let me give you an example Sit and do this specific practice (process) until a sign arises....lets say its a red light (product) Vs Sit and imagine a red light (product), and that is your practice (process) Do you see the problem? He can call it whatever he wants, but it isn't meditation. That word is taken and has a meaning already. Confusing people because he doesn't want to use the right terms is his issue I hope that clears up that point? Now, I also now need to correct the misuse of the term Samadhi Samadhi is also known as Tai Ding is Daoist terminolgy... it is focused concentration. It is one method of several that need to be used. It falls under the category of sitting practice Calling Samadhi the product and meditation the process is not only mixing up the two....it is placing Samadhi on a pedestal. It is only one of several ingredients This is almost verbatim how its been explained to me No more sticks or rituals required after a certain point

Beth is someone worth talking to and very generous with her knowledge

If I could bilocate, id bring you one But then, nobody here claimed anything of the sort personally. Yes the basics...but your idea of the basics and another teachers may not be aligned...Someone with a heavy emphasis on book knowledge may consider basics to be what a practitioner heavy teacher considers excessive Im told to focus on what I do, not what I read...The reading will make sense later. And causes can be manipulated, conditions can be altered, and karma can be worked through So what is the point? Have you ever met an enlightened being? Or even an awakened one? and if you have what signs did they show you? As @freeformmentioned, wisdom is actually a siddhi Its one of the ones used in the creation of Fu talismans as far as I am aware Its also a means to be able to decipher and understand causality via the interaction of xing and ming. At higher stages you can dip into the subconscious and extract insight from what is usually considered rubbish and meaningless by your mind. In fact, one of the key aspects of Buddhism is to be able to understand causality at this level But this is what happens when definitions are diluted.... This is exactly why i go to texts when I am told, and not try to drink every drop of the literature....Misunderstanding does not help with the spiritual path.

You're not coming across like that in my opinion...though they seem to have taken issue with the pointing out of hard truths That's ok Its nice to see good discussion flourishing again. You were missed The trapping is very evident by folk who appeal to scripture and authors on the topic, due to an overemphasis on books and cognitive understanding. This isnt limited to Buddhism though..it seems to permeate all traditions Pa Auk was one of the few places recommended to me. I was explicitly told if you want it, and you're willing to work at it, then you'll get it... The problem is most people aren't willing to put in the hours needed, or make the needed sacrifices and commitment Again I go back to the term "participation" trophies. I can say with all honesty...the practices I was given, are so repetitive and monotonous, I imagine it would break most people very fast. Its far easier to lower the bar so people feel like they've achieved something, then they'll stick around

This is what happens when you detach a term from its meaning...its generally what westerners do Allow me to provide a few examples jhana chakra kundalini meditation mindfulness astral projection There's probably more I'm forgetting Any time you here these terms being used...you can almost be guaranteed the person is talking about something else Mindfulness is the latest one...the term has become so diluted and misused as of today...that a shiver goes up my spine every time I hear the term used

Do you see a problem with equating arrival at a destination with the means and manners used to get there...not only are they not the same thing, one is a process, the other is a product Meditation is a a state, not a practice...you practice qualities that allow you to reach the state once they are developed to a high enough degree Id say if the your experience and teacher are not leading to actual real results....that's a far bigger problem It is one thing to read about rupa-kalapas in a text, and ponder over what is under discussion. It is an entirely different matter (and far more helpful) to physically see these things Given the choice, I know which one ill take...and it wont involve me reading scripture over and over Does it? Did he lay out 84,000 destinations? People who generally downplay siddhi as a benchmark of achievement, are generally those who have no developments. They will tell you they have achieved this or that...but the litmus test, is siddhi development. It has nothing to do with magic or greed. These things are not sought per se, they arise as a result of the condition. He's not trashing it from where I'm sitting (nor am I) He is correctly categorizing it. I have a Buddhist teacher who is quite strict about definitions too, its something I see mirrored in teachers who have the developments that indicate progress Someone stressed out about the economy or covid, or looking to cope, they don't need meditation. Meditation is a state, one the vast majority of people never reach...several factors have to align for it to arise...there is no "meditation practice" because it is collective result of a bunch of methods taken to a very high level of development I literally do not understand the confusion about this

100% agree...Nice little thing to do for a while if you are feeling stressed...I did it for a little bit...its a good way to consciously root out/identify bad patterns in your breathing...but those things will drop away naturally as well with the right seated practice imo Yes 100% But concentration isnt a practice so much as a substance, in my experience Anecdotal, but I have felt that the difference is that when you get into a deep state of concentration and substance starts to build...then you aren't actually doing the method so much anymore, because, at least in my experience, once you "enter" that gateway, you'd get absorbed into it. One you are in, then it becomes a matter of not being pulled out as opposed to "improving concentration" All opinion of course I also got this vibe....a lot of intent behind it I agree with @freeform on this....from several teachers, I have been told there is only 1 jhana definition that is real...and the results are pretty life altering...anything else is just moving the goalposts to create "participation" trophies That sounds awful I know...but hey, dont shoot the messenger One of those siddhi you mentioned, both of my teachers mentioned it...You mentioned one of them in an earlier post about it being known as the strike of Ling. Swathes of people saw it on the first teacher...several others attest to it on the second one. Including non students with no investment in said individual In fact, I would go so far as to say they are even stricter than any scientific approach... In the Buddhist practices i was shown..it was sit and do a, b, c until something happens...I wont tell you what. document your experiences..we can discuss them...when the "thing happens" you'll know, then we'll go further. No questions about what will happen. Questions afterwards only That was it...cause, effect, and clearing up of misunderstandings along the way....there was no room for deviation whatsoever...and if deviation begins...it is quickly corrected It is used, its just not spoken about....The Pau Auk tradition have some esoteric stuff going on that isnt so public...They explicitly teach certain practices for siddhi to arise to certain folk...it is nearly insisted upon. But the siddhi that they teach are not saught for power...it is for the ability to discern between the layers of reality, and in even narrower cases, how it can be manipulated PS.I need to shut up now because Im saying too much Indeed there are...interesting approach they have I picked up a text on the Weizza lines recently..made me want to go traverse Myanmar There was actually clips from a ceremony shown recently on YouTube...Tattoos during the full moon and pulling out the machete to check out if the ritual was successful...scary stuff

Id worry about getting on a path first... Building foundation can take you a number of different places depending on your preferences, aims, and access to teachings, but without foundations you wont need to be worried about where...because you wont be getting anywhere Hope that makes sense

The issue isnt so much if someone is trustful The issue is do people expect results at the speed of an email, or are they willing to put in the hours and hours and hours of practice to get skill and then achieve certain things. If they are....there are plenty of suggestions across the website, including this thread

Teacher of esoteric/internal arts of course

I honestly wanted to write a book about some of the stuff Ive seen...if it wasn't going to be immediately dismissed by the "fact checkers" who actually don't know the facts or shouted down by the hive mind. I probably would. Give it a little more time however, these people are terribly bad at hiding their tracks. The problem with research is that it has become a commodity akin to the poorest quality of crap you'd find in the depths of alibaba which takes forever to ship and falls apart upon removing it from the package when it finally arrives But it sure does look nice in the picture that enticed you to buy it Its all about quantity, publish or perish....good replication (a cornerstone of actual science) is nonexistent, and volume increases as quality constantly decreases (its pretty much at zero now imo). It is all a facade literally. The money at stake here is ASTRONOMICAL, hence the network of lies runs very deep. What academia is now is akin to what the catholic church was....its basically organized religion revamped...the governments and MNC;s then use this "irrefutable proof" which they actually manipulate, distort and twist to suit their agenda and missions to direct the masses. Hence, we have scientism I would happily discuss this at length with anyone who wishes to probe the topic out of interest There are a few scientists who genuinely try to do the right thing...but press them enough, they'd confirm everything I've said...Hell when I confronted my HOD and faculty member before I exited stage left regarding the amount of lies spread over the last few years from "reputable institutions" including the one I was based at...radio silence. Why? Because they care more about a big fat paycheck, a few more letters and accolades after their name and the social capital that comes with being considered an "expert"....as opposed to the search for truth....which is what science should really be about But hey, this is what happens when you take a good thing (a method) and turn it into a dogmatic belief system (a bad thing). I cringe every time someone asks me for peer reviewed evidence...then I try to be compassionate because they know no better than the indoctrination they were born into, like so many others. There was even a time I was considering bringing people into a lab and testing out "abilities" . I soon reconsidered...that's pandoras box right there...and that one box that needs to stay firmly closed.

Perhaps I should have worded myself better, apologies. Reading in isolation wont get you anywhere in reality...but practice will bring life and real understanding to what your read, and then reading becomes a way to augment, and eventually deepen your practice ( The Nei Jing Tu description in Damos book for example, would take on a far greater degree of significance to have some of things taking place in your body). Practical and intellectual understanding are two feet that work together to get you walking...someone who only practices and has no explanation or understanding wont have a clue what the hell is happening...and whether its right or wrong (harm often follows). It works both ways. It is often the latter that is kept from students believe it or not. A teacher helps on all fronts, practically and intellectually, by teaching your the methods, guiding your practice but also by explaining and later on decoding esoteric language so you can gain insight into texts. The Dao de jing is not what it appears at first Believe me when I tell you...more people than you or I have spent years chasing answers in books...we might find something that ignites a spark, but a spark can only start a fire with the right conditions Drop me a PM...ill see if I can point you in the right direction towards someone who can help you take things a bit deeper based on your circumstances.

It really isn't The governments are just pieces manipulated on the board by larger corporate entities....this is the reality of the situation. Exhibit A sits below https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-wins-appeal-in-13-billion-apple-tax-case-1.4305044 The Irish government fought to prove Apple DIDNT have to pay them money owed in tax...if you ever needed an example of what I said But none of that has to do with the topic of the thread really Oh dear...Calm down. Should we envision fisticuffs between you and some other members? I'm not entirely getting what the point of this all is? If you think you are going to spread some kind of ubiquitous truth here by reading some books..I don't think that's realistic..at best you'll get corrected by some of the folk on here with extensive practical experience and theoretical understanding in the esoteric arts (you'll probably learn something in that case)...at worst...you'll p*ss a bunch of seasoned folk off who might make you wish you didnt. Grand proclamations of knowledge are never the way to go...and this is most true when you don't really understand what you are talking about I didnt tell you to do either Teachers dont generally cost a few grand...you could pick up a subscription to one of several respected teachers for a few hundred a year...which probably works out at around 10 dollars a week or so. You literally quoted Damo Mitchell in your opening post and thats his price. Adam Mizner is similar. Nathan Brine...the list goes on. You do not need one in the flesh to begin..at all. Those days are gone...later perhaps, but not to start. The problem is that it hasn't. I do not wish to be mean, but it has been seriously misunderstood, and distorted your thinking. Honestly, if I wanted to go through your opening post...I could have really picked out more than Id have liked to. And I am no seasoned practitioner, not by a long shot not even close. But I didnt want to do that. I appreciate the interest and had a similar approach when I was younger...so I do get it. There are plenty of people worth listening to...some people on this forum far more advanced than you would care to hazard a guess...but when you come in here thinking that you've got all the answers, looking to teach people...your shutting that door before it ever had a chance to be opened...Pause for thought here here...you might be glad you did. Humble pie may not be the tastiest food, but it is often the most nutritious. I think its great you are taking an interest in such things ...but might I suggest going about it the right way...speed reading 1000 books then sticking together a bunch of stuff and hoping it sticks isn't a fruitful way forward. Ask questions, get a teacher...engage with these disciplines practically...that is how you will come to know Or spin wheels for however long it takes you to figure that out...the choice is yours

This explains the noodles on wall at least Heres a friendly piece of advice. Id stop reading so much if I was you. You will not find the truth in a book @Aether I'm not saying it because I'm some sage guru or ascended being. I'm saying it because I wasted enough of my time doing the same thing, and hate to see others do it. It is a dead end. Books are useful to augment things as you are going through them...not so much prior to it however. Go find a teacher of these arts if you really want to understand them...It is your best bet

I am not a scholar...I said I left that line of work over the lies and indeed atrocities built into it. You want to talk about Qi or electromagnetics? Here's your first mistake...thinking one equals the other. They really do not. You are confusing cause and effect Mistake number two is thinking you can clear your channels via breathing. Breathing is an aspect (there are several) ....you can breathe until the cows come home, that wont clear the channels and open them up. There are two ways I know of to do this...in both breathing is just one of several tools you must use Building energy in the body and fasting are contraindicative. Energetic development requires more calories initially , and actually is quite hard to do without some form of meat (even if its only a little). Especially at the beginning stages Fasting is actually for the spiritual aspect of training. You are back to confusing cause and effect...the ball of light and subsequent stars you are talking about, they are a lot more than you think Instead of taking information from Damo Mitchell's books and trying to cross reference it with physics, try training with him...Im sure under his instruction you might actually get some access to this stuff Though I dont imagine he would appreciate the misrepresentation of his work. That light is not something you are creating my friend. Not at all. And the fields you are talking about are far more than just "magnetism". I will reiterate my point again. You are confusing cause with effect Absolutely not...Heavens no Its like you grabbed a bunch of noodles from different packets, threw them all into one big pot, fired them against the wall and waited to see which ones stuck. You need to pause for thought here...Im not saying that to be insulting...but there are so many errors in this line of thinking, I just don't know what else to say

The problem is you are coming at this from an intellectual position rather than one of experience and practicality... You need a teacher in these arts and a practice designed to take you along a structured pathway of development I can understand and empathize with the positioning...I was an academic...I know what it is to dig for answers...but I can assure you, you will not understand this type of materia from books and explanations beyond a surface level (at best) ...you actually need to be exposed first hand by someone who has the developments From the few experiences I have had while training...I can tell you, I could have read a lifetime worth of books and it wouldn't have even matched a second in terms of my understanding You will not understand anything about the pineal gland "supernatural" function by reading for example...but if you've got the right practices and experiences arise...you wont need to read anything at all to get it. You might need your teacher to put a bit of context on it incase your mind gets too carried away...but thats about all

Yes they do ALL THE TIME I left the research/academic field over it....I am more than familiar

Theres a specific way to help with breaking up stagnation and that... Damo Mitchell recently uploaded a qi gong deviation/sickness course for free....there's an exercise set that helps with this kind of thing in it...suggest you watch the whole thing...especially if you don't have a teacher Would also suggest you dont train any energy work without a teacher...its a good way to cause yourself harm

@GSmaster