Shadow_self

I think you just misunderstood me... I said trace (As in trace down)...not follow in and out

Its more subtle in my opinion. With the ATB exercise, although you are still using your attention (not intention! very important) You are literally tracing the path of your breath with your attention and then connecting it up section by section. Eventually the parts become the whole Whereas with the other method...you are literally allowing it sink down by itself...It requires more patience and perseverance...and in my opinion (which is just that), it is less engaging...So you are literally just breathing and allowing it to sink...Eventually it'll start to go down. I assume the transmission freeform mentioned would make it a bit easier? When you know what you're trying to do and understand what quality you're trying to develop....you tend to align and resonate with the practices to a greater degree. @freeform will explain this far better than my novice attempt I just chimed in as you tagged me

You should not have to imagine, or visualize anything to open the third eye.

It is very important that people understand....the latter is what is leading to the former...I am not the first person to state this. The problem is that foreigners now come with a preconceived status by default. One formed based on the actions of past practitioners that left a very sour taste. It is worrying that few people can see the ramifications for the sect themselves the last time as a result of opening the doors. In short, it is still continuing today The west lacks knowledge of eastern culture in a major way. They also consistently fail to demonstrate values that align with the eastern standard of living. People may think because of globalization that these lines have blurred...but in the case of traditions, they are very much firm. If one, however..had the discernment to understand the full nature of the situation, and consistently embodied the qualities necessary to prove such a label is unwarranted in their case...they may find that, over an extended period, attitudes might somewhat soften a bit

Its not here it'd go to @Iliketurtles. Nobody here cares about your groups dealings. But the actual lineage? Their reaction might be far less to your liking....and I know for a fact you know what I am referencing. No more need be said on it I'm of decent character...so I'm going to ignore your prompt. For the benefit of others, not you. That's the last I'm saying on the matter...and I suggest it be the last you say on it also. This is not a topic for a forum, lest I get both of us in trouble You asked to move on several pages ago, and I told you multiple times no problem....so do just that please Your position is clear...some spirit monster demon that hated westerners forced John out of the school and blocked Jim and all other westerners off...all of a sudden one day Kostas far more rational take on the matter is not the truth of it at all. This is perfectly rational and reasonable according to you, and what you choose to believe... No problem

Have all the friends in the world you like, Come back to me when you've married into it, worked with it, taught to the culture and get a chance to view it from that perspective...Dont have me start divulging information regards your groups connections...the end result wont be good for your group I can assure you...I mentioned the word direct connection for a reason ( hint, quit while you are ahead) But like i said, dont take my word for it....read the professors work...you guys have a fancy for academics, between appealing to their authority, or paying them to try and make an argument for you You guys are funny, thats for sure

Perhaps you don't understand how Asian culture works... I happen to, given I'm tied to it...Id explain it to you....but I know you'd rather hear it from an "expert" (plus you'd probably dismiss me as a randomer) So, with that in mind...start here https://www.amazon.com/Lies-that-Bind-Chinese-Truths/dp/074255404X You guys like anthropology, right? This ones by a professor in anthropology. Im pretty sure you're big on "credentials" also...so this is right up your avenue Moreover...this is amplified in the internal arts community...The secrecy and truths of the matter are kept from all but a few of the very closest...Dont believe me? Ask a few initiates on here..Im sure they will give you some insight

And it seems reasonable to you that a spirit demon (Jims words) ex teacher banned westerners after previously allowing them for years...all of a sudden...and that this is an accurate representation of the situation If that seems reasonable to you...perhaps you need to question your definition of reasonable

I agree with this perfectly You cannot say... Im glad we arrived here

Are you calling Kostas a randomer now? Haha you guys do the worst mental gymnastics His words are right there...what Jim presented to you and what Kostas said do not match....so you either believe one or the other...it is that simple Forget about me...I'm just agreeing with what Kostas ALREADY said based on additional direct information..but yeah...your basically insinuating Kostas is being dishonest then.. I can state my position clearly...I think Jim believed that was the case....though Jim believed a lot of odd things, read his book and you can grasp that. So trust whatever you like...it does not reflect the reality of the matter ( nor did much of Jims statements) Please, by all means go to your space or echo chamber...I will not be joining you in a place where you can insult people and copy paste nonsense ad infinitum. EG pointed out the nature of it..so that's a permanent NO...not now and not ever There is no need to discuss it further...Dont want to talk about it? No problem...nobody is compelling you to post...The thread is perfectly fine with or without your input

No need...just don't misrepresent the situation again...what I posted is exactly as it stands You trust Jim over Kostas....that is the end of the discussion

No thats not the case....you are saying you trust Jim's words more than Kostas in reality...because Kostas words are right there for you, The postings on the blogs are copy pastes of newspaper articles from almost 2 decades ago...its up to you if you want to try and find the originals...I could care less whether you do or dont really

You did not mention any videos....im not overly interested in videos to be honest...that's been done to death.. My information comes from elsewhere...a direct source ( make of that what you will) Then move on, no problem. There's no need to take this conversation any further..its beginning to edge on things Im not willing to speak about now

Kostas words are right there...this is not about what I believe...He stated it quite directly Im not sure what 6th graders you are speaking too, but they certainly don't speak like that. I never said they were deep fakes...I reserve what I think they actually are being honest...but Kostas words are more than enough to get to the matter at hand without elaborating further.

I notice the use of the terms, I dont know and I believe a lot Im glad you said that...because, there is evidence to suggest otherwise.. I never said John did or didn't do anything...except that he did not write that letter, because he is not an apt English speaker....which you know to be true. I then asked you if you know whether they were verbatim his words, which you dont Let me be direct... You are the one claiming he did...the burden of proof lies with you to substantiate that or admit you dont know. You have admitted you don't know...that's fine Kostas tells a different story ( it is right there for you to read). I take Kostas words with far more weight than I ever would Jim's...a quick scan of Jim's books and past posts on here would tell you exactly why...and illustrate with great effect why I would say that. We dont need to discuss this any further....you've stated your position clearly....and please stop trying to move conversation off the forum...just cease posting if it bothers you.

Oh Im not denying Jim got a letter...Why create strawman arguments? Im asking whether you have evidence. #1 That those are johns verbatim words #2 That the story of the spirit is true The answer is you believe it to be true, probably because of the predisposition to bias mentioned earlier...and beliefs do not necessarily equate to reality. The fact of the matter is as Kostas laid it out...it was a very political thing...but attaching a metaphysical element to it makes it much easier to diffuse responsibility, avoid having to elaborate and sidestep further conflict Please note almost all schools have a predisposition culturally...this might be waived, as was the case...but the removal of this waiver was not caused by ancient rules set down..You would do well to objectively reflect on the following (heres just a few examples) #1 The result of the publication of the Magus Of Java #2 The conduct of one, David Verdesi #3 Jim's reaction to be being told he couldn't be instructed further #4 And here's a BIG one...The implications of attempting to get these things studied scientifically #5 How all of that affected John himself I mentioned just a few things there....there is a lot more to this story...some of which I am not at liberty to write here, or in any public forum You dont have to respond to that, if you dont want to.. but I suggest you objectively reflect on the above in light of a sect that was generally operating below the radar, and held within it secrets that could potentially shatter the modern knowledge base

Im not concocting anything at all...In fact I used independent sources to bolster what Im saying.because I know that you'll tell me im some stranger on the internet who just wants to attack your group or whatever the narrative might be In reality though, thats not the case at all...Im just correcting errors that seem to have gained traction over time

Amongst other things... It is common for schools not to admit those of other ethnicities...In fact, someone I know was initiated and booted for no reason other than their nationality...and it was down to the exact same thing I have underlined in Kostas posts....Disgruntled students and politics (amongst other things). In terms of the case I am talking about, there was no prior cause.... However in the case of the Mo Pai there were some antecedents..and following that, a decision was made, and along with that several distortions of the reasoning...for multiple reasons....It is important to remember the role that "optics" play in Asian culture.

Now that you have arrived at that conclusion, that theres lies being told, I think theres little left to say Remember your initial entry to this was about the Pure Blood Chinese requirement...(which was why I posted the link to Edwards post) Funny enough, he found John by advertising in newspapers....fortunately enough, heres a link to someone who copied a bit from the Jawa Pos newspaper https://gusblerogarden.wordpress.com/tag/edward-richards/ Theres two newspaper articles...one reporting his search, and the other reporting that he had found him. It would make little sense for him to lie about it Then when you mentioned John was the one who claimed a spirit was responsible for his decision (which was why I posted Kostas words) You dont need to worry about getting banned. Im not trying to "win" anything, actually all I am doing is pointing you in the direction of something I think you might not be aware of

So Kostas is a liar then? Oh im sure he didn't...Nor do I care really... I just asked you because for a group that does nothing but claim about how evidence is important..you sure do tend to overlook that principle when it suits your narrative. But I suppose you did mention earlier you were biased so...that probably explains the mental leaps

Yes and??? Jim went to John after this i know the story...I also know the truth of the matter...Anyway I didn't ask you what he did...I asked you if you had proof John wrote that letter? The answer is he didn't because JC was not an avid English speaker. This has nothing to do with who I am or my source...Kostas words are there for you...In plain English. It was just by chance I found them. But that is the truth of the matter. Whether it was Jim or John or a translator or all three who lied...The westerners were asked to leave because of the underlined reason, and a few more...but that was the main one. Funny how you guys spend a decade quoting the magus of Java like scripture, but you are willing to gloss over that. Is there something wrong with your comprehension ability? How many times do you need to be told I will not go over to your echo chamber....but you are welcome to go over and talk to yourself. Note the following...I did not address you....you commented on something I said....and so forth... You can leave this discussion any time you wish...but stop trolling please

Do you have any evidence at all, that these letters were written by John? The truth of the matter is you are making an assumption that these are Johns words and not someone else's. Take a look at what I have provided you with..they are Kostas actual words....and they hint to the truth of the matter far more than a few pieces of paper which you cannot link to a source. And like I said im privy to this...so I can assure you unlike what you are saying I know my information ( and I don't mean Kostas words) is coming from the source..funny how Kostas words gel with said source It is not that westerners were banned from Mo Pai based on geography or genetics...that is a gross distortion of the situation..And thats not the only matter....There is a somewhat limited understanding of John as well....because all was not as it is seemed there either....but like you said..you didnt know if Jim was lied to there...nor do you know if he was told lies regarding other matters either

I never said it was a dream. I said that is not what was caused the westerners to get the boot Heres a hint from Kosta's Answer: From the very beginning, Sifu John told me that non-Chinese could not be students of the school. At the time, he seemed to waiver from that commitment for personal reasons of his own; perhaps he did not expect that we Westerners would progress so rapidly. When the Magus of Java came out, there was a backlash from the Chinese students; right or wrong, the rules of the school had literally been written down. So we were told that we could not progress beyond a specific level. So...this might help you start to join the dots....that is straight from the horses mouth...note I underlined the most important term...P.S the story is a lot more complex than that...I have been privy to information regarding this that you are not Still so sure some spirit master was the cause of it? It is odd how you put so much faith in John Chang and his students to accurately portray the situation....yet when you start to put together even the disjointed info that is public...It becomes very apparent that you do not have the truth of the matter (and that is not limited to the lack of western access either)

@Earl Grey Thanks for pointing out the facts of the matter So @Iliketurtles you'd like me to go there so you can spew insults and fire out copy/paste arguments? No thank you....you can travel that road yourself if you wish... If you don't want to participate, you are most welcome to exit the thread...nobody is forcing you to write anything...though your inability to answer what are essentially good questions says a lot about the apparent knowledge of the situation

Please not the following terms "I am starting" : I say this because you did not seem aware John was instructing several westerners long after Jim said he was not. "Dont understand the truth" : Based on what you said that you believe it was because of a spirit that John stopped teaching Jim/Kostas. Its not my agenda to believe this so much as I cannot really infer anything else based on you not wanting to discuss it further...If you believe this forum to be such a toxic place...why bother being a member here? and why bother posting in these topics? You can have a perfectly reasonable rational talk here....No need for alternative forums, book quotes and preformed responses ad infinitum and so forth