Shadow_self

I am starting to think based on their narrative, they may not know the truth of the matter.

Not really...the discussion can take place without you Thats fine like I said Your reasoning for moving it is based on bias to be honest. Hardly a good impetus

Please dont troll me. I said no...this is the forum Im choosing to discuss these things on. Nobody is insulting you or threatening you. There are others who might want to partcipate in the conversation and Im not taking an interesting line of discussion off TDB without a good reason If you dont want to talk about it no problem...That doesn't invalidate the questions im asking ( and points im hinting at)

Why? Im not judging you based on your answer...Like I said, just a few questions...they are fairly benign questions at that Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't most of Johns communication in English performed by others?

Have you ever heard the phrase half truth? It applies here. Moreover...heres a better question. Have you any evidence it was John who even wrote that letter?

Im glad you said that you dont know if it is true...Because here is what Jim said I received a letter from my teacher (2005). He finally admitted to me that he was finished with teaching and was no longer able to help anyone. He bid me farewell with no direction, no help in finding someone to replace him, or anything! Odd.... End of 2006....seems he was of help people after 2005...Pretty sure Edward was not Chinese....

Yes no, I prefer to remain on forums where people can benefit from the discussion If it was a case of just having a two way discussion, a PM would have been sufficient Anyway, it seems my question has already raised an important point... Why is there a narrative that it is the case that people cannot join the indonesian school because of geography, when it is clear there is something else at play There's another important question or two as well...one is regarding the timing of connection to the earth..I think I hinted at it earlier...

I read plenty of good MP threads on here both before and after I was a member. Granted a few got out of hand, pitted or descended into chaos...They dont all have to I dont plan on taking this to page 100... Im just asking some questions.....Im not screaming that you're lying or whatnot...no interest in it

Why? Im not trolling you am I? (I've no such interest) Im not being disrespectful am I? Why be a forum member here, then encourage what could be an interesting discussion to take place elsewhere. I think a few people could do with an understanding of the conditions that led to the current situation

Let us examine it a bit further though...I think we can come to some sort of conclusion So May came to visit John every New year right? He was upset that John admitted westerners, yet took him years to express and act on this Any idea why that might be? Could it be, perhaps...that it was the result of certain peoples actions, and had nothing to do with westerners per se, until after the fact when said actions were attributed to "westerners"?

Ok so you believe that. No problem. Why do you think it took so many years for said spirit to get upset and do that? Surely such a powerful spirit could (or rather would) have done that prior to the fact. So was said spirit upset because of the non Chinese? or because of something else? Jim claimed to have been around that spirit right?

John told Jim a lot of things...sure So the story goes....a spirit came, kicked John's ass, and told him no you cannot teach anymore. I wont comment on whether or not I believe that to be the truth of the matter But lets say I did believe it...Why did the spirit kick Johns ass?

Im fairly sure they were not mistaken...though I have seen the story that it was a racist thing presented time and time again. Note im not saying the racist thing doesn't happen...its quite prominent in Asia...However It seems unlikely that this would have been the case had certain individuals treated their position in a more responsible way The way I have it....it was the said actions of certain people which led to the assumption it was due to westerners, and not just people conducting themselves poorly... which then led to the whole no westerners allowed.

No thank you, we have a perfectly good forum here with a lot of active participants..It is not required to go to an echo chamber where a diverse opinions and input is lacking

Who said it was Jim he was upset with, or that Jim is who I was referring too? According to my sources..Jims actions after all this went down is what bothered John, not before. It was the actions of, ahem others...that is what brought some issues

Pretty sure the old forum mentions sitting on a wire that's attached to a grounding rod, correct? Should I pull up the quote? If you say it is not touching your perineum ok...then ok....Its not specified in the quote Of course I also understand that your group does a demonstration which involves the same grounding rod and wire connected to the earth, for "skeptics" In any event I was more referring to the logic behind this not making much sense to me. Why immediately establish a connection to ground to absorb Yin without having previously built excess Yang, and having sank it to the LDT. If the Yin field of the lower dan tien has not been re-consolidated (As it disperses with puberty) which contains the Yang, then dont you think that there is a far greater chance connecting to the earth will pull the Yang qi out, rather than pulling the Yin Qi in? Please not im not debating connection to the earth to gather Yin Qi...I'm asking you about the logic behind simultaneous vs sequential gathering...from your perspective please, rather than a book quote We dont need to go to any other forum to discuss that....Im just curious behind the logic here

Of all the things I have seen the mo pai people posit...this is one of the more unusual things..The copper wire taped to the perineum to "ground"... Of course it is true one takes in extra Yin Qi from the environment, it cannot be built in the body (as far as I know)...however, one has a LOT of work to do before gathering any excess of Yin Qi There appears to be many missing details regarding the absorption of Yin Qi, and more crucially the pre-requisites here....it poses a few questions...several actually.

To drop another hint or two Chang welcomed outsiders, when elders found out about it, they weren't happy. (Doors Remained Open) Later, Chang agreed with the elders and wasn't happy with the outsiders. (Due to specific behaviours, Doors close) Now people ignore the cultural differences and values in favor of western exceptionalism (Its easier to blame others, right?) In the words of Alice Cooper: School's out FOREVER (for outsiders). (Outsiders having less to do with ethnicity than claimed) Couldn't help myself

Yes you are correct, most definitely. It was the situation that I am referencing which lead to the situation you are referencing There was nobody kicked out because of geography per se..it was something else, as you may already very well know

Again I'm 100% in agreement. I just remember Steve commenting somewhere that one of his students was filming something for a documentary...My "surprise" (I should have used inverted commas in the original post) would be more related to the fact that he never stopped arguing about how all other systems sucked haha...the old threads are quite the read) I would have thought the ability the manipulate the intensity and duration would have been the giveaway....amazing what people will fake for money though. Didnt this guy come back on here and appeal to the mods to reinstate starjumper, and he would perform a demo if it would help? I could have sworn I seen that

I think you need to reverse this....The westerners, from what I have been told.... had somewhat disappointed John...not in terms of progression, rather in terms of other things.

I agree that with everything you are saying However...given Steve's attitudes towards phony qi gong, If be surprised to think it would be the case that a person he's teaching would deliberately go out of their way to dupe others ( of course thats entirely plausible.... Im sure you've seen your fair share of his arguments on here over the years Moreover, the person in question, is actually a member, I am almost sure it is this person @Superfaz29

I know who he is...though he doesnt know me I believe he is of Steve gray's aka @Starjumper students

I do prefer the term achievement rather than practice in regard to stillness My understanding was always stillness is a state, which arises as a byproduct of practices performed in order to build the qualities to eventually reach said state.

I think it is best to look at the Kan (water) trigram to conceptualize it Consider the peripheral lines, and consider the center line...Think about the Yin and Yang aspects of the Jing. Reflect on what happens when the small waterwheel really gets going