Shadow_self

Oh dear...

Your explanation is so much better than mine Thank you. On a personal note....Having a SO in a different timezone and adjusting clocks to late nights definately does take its toll...Thankfully its not permanent. I imagine a decade or so of night shift work could really mess it up

We are taught the other way as well Funnily enough, we were taught the way you were taught first...Just requires a lot more patience I think there's a lot to be said for understanding the Yinian, and how it relates to the simplified terminology Damo sometimes uses Once I understood this stuff to a better extent... a lot of dots were joined in my head

https://mandrake.uk.net/practical-chinese-magic-coming-soon/ Jason has a rather large text being released soon

1. You should definitely direct that question to someone more knowledgeable than me to get a more comprehensive answer. I think @freeform would be able to elaborate further than I can. Jing is really complex...Far more complex than what most people realise. The machinations of it, at the deeper levels are way above my paygrade What I do know is habits can either directly or indirectly impact the jing. So for example, the things we mentioned..diet, sleep, lack of movement. But there are other ways too.... Consider the The five Spirits. The five spirits are : the spirits (Shen) linked to the heart, the Hun linked to the liver, the Po linked to the lung, the intent (yi) linked to the spleen and the will (zhi) linked to the kidneys. Habits (regardless of whether they are perceived as good or bad) end up taxing the zhi....because habits basically relate to a lack of will ( we don't choose to do so). This in turn then impacts the Jing also, which is linked to the kidneys. Lets take two examples. Firstly a person who, when they become aroused must relieve themselves. So here theres a habit, and an activity which depletes the Jing. It is very taxing Now here's a more subtle one... Consider a person who has good habits like exercising or healthy diet...Lets say something happens...the gym is closed or they cannot get this food they always eat. Next thing they start stressing out and desperately find a way to support their habit rather than accept the minute disruption that will mean little in the grand scheme...This type of compulsive habitual behaviour has an effect on the Jing in the latter way I mentioned. It is also bad. If your Jing is consolidated to a high degree....you should not be driven by desires or habits. You would (or should) have control over things like choosing when to have sex and so forth...It basically puts you back in the drivers seat, where you are not led by desire That's a very oversimplistic response...but like I mentioned...above my paygrade 2. A good rule of thumb in Daoism is to avoid the cold Yeah no, If you are talking about the Wim Hof stuff...staying away from that would be my personal advice. Not just the showers, all of it. It can mess with the kidneys (and by that same means, the JIng), and as you've probably gathered from the thread....that's not good

Would question the notion about celibacy.. Simple reason being that it is desire that causes the movement of Jing and can lead to it being burned up...For example...being celibate is of little to no use whatsoever if you mind is plagued by thoughts and desire for sex, and you are constantly getting erections. Getting the desires under control is where a lot of people fall down 小梦想 made a really vital point above as well...habits can be extremely detrimental to the jing.

Stopping menstruation is not the same as semen retention... When you go through a certain stage of practice, what happens is that the male can lose the ability to impregnate a woman, the underpinning energetics required to make it happen, is rerouted... So it isn't as much about retention (retention is different) , as it is about disabling a certain mechanism tied to orgasm/ejaculation.. The loss of menstruation is the female equivalent to this. A bit of a crude explanation..but to the best of my knowledge this is what happens

I would like a personal practice log please. Thank you

Anyone know where @Mudfootwent off too, He seemed like a most interesting Character

Right...time to spill...just how many of those damned mushrooms did you eat

The way it can impact your next life is by your strongly attaching or feeling unacceptable aversion to some aspect of the resulting experience. Problem is, a very large proportion of people become extremely attached to the experience. It is very hard to move past attachment and delusion when you're inadvertently creating more of it There’s a real danger if one sees the hallucinogenic experience as ‘the answer’ to some inner emptiness or the like. There are people I know right now addicted to "Mother ayahuasca "...One such person I know used it as her life didn't turn out how she wanted at all...She's heavy on it now and shows no sign of weaning For some people this is very helpful. For others it can be a catalyst for serious mental disturbance. I guess the crux of the discussion is, why should any doctor or scientist (who know essentially nothing about the mind) have the right to dictate who gets this. Do they have the insight to know who will fall into these categories? Indeed not...and when you start giving these substances to already disturbed folk without knowing what you are doing....there's a fine line being threaded there The various beings, messages, presences one experiences are not divine or even particularly useful… usually they’re just aspects of mind that take on a representative identity… sometimes they’re representations of beings from the lower realms… or the minor spirit realms. Agree with this. This is how it was explained to me also. Moreover...anything "divine" in nature supposedly comes through in a very different way

Oh what do I think it is...Now thats a question. I dont think it is any one thing really, and because of that I do believe an individual approach to treatment is required here. I dont think it is rooted in biology however...not at all...the whole antidepressant fiasco is fine evidence of that. Here's a very sobering take down of a widely cited meta analysis https://openexcellence.org/antidepressants-work-major-depression-not-fast/ It is much more "energetic" and mental from my experience of it. So I think that triggers can happen at any level, but what sustains it (which is the problem with depression isn't it) happens energetically and mentally and so, should be treated as such. My experience of people having lasting improvements have come from changes as a result of things like Acupuncture and TCM ,mental training, breathing exercises, talking therapies, time in nature, new hobbies and a very good one...is a person across from them teaching them how to think critically and assess a situation correctly...the predisposition to classify everything as negative is quite strong...sometimes people simply don't know how to think another way....and taking them through the practice of doing so and giving the proper skills seems to really help Removing antidepressants,, benzo's and antipsychotics which are given to people as easy as candy is given to a child also helps immensely. Though the withdrawal, or purging can be tough on them

The topic at hand has everything to do with psychedelics as an aid to cultivation which has everything to do with religion/spiritually. As freeform mentioned already, beyond a certain extent they are of little use to a cultivator. This has been echoed to me by several teachers as well. The exception is shamanic practices...and for the vast majority of people...dabbling in psychedelics has nothing to do with that. You've already been told you cannot access spirit with psychedelics, and the mechanics of the most popular one has been kindly laid out for you. You might not want to believe this, but, unless you are a person of a high level of cultivation, or have a total fluke this is more or less what has happened. You're running into your own mind. Thats about the size of it You have dissed called out researchers that advocate psilocybin, peyote, dmt, LSD, etc And I will continue to do so. I know exactly what their operation entails and their end goal. If you aren't privy to what happens in research and why, it might be better to leave this one alone. They have zero business advocating for the use of a substance under the guise of science when they have zero insight into matters pertaining to their mechanics. They have even less business aiding in the appropriation, commercialisation and exploitation of these substances. entheogens as a key that unlocks energetic gateways or other dimensions For who? Shamans and people of high cultivation? Yes possibly...for regular folk...not really...just a conscious trip into the mind basically...nothing you cant do yourself fairly easily with the right method...Often one of the first barriers you meet, and a major distraction for folk who cling to the experience NDE, out of the body experiences, dream travel are not some function of chemical emotional reactions, but the quest to experience beyond our minuscule existence. I find it strange that you, given all that was explained here (and elsewhere on the site) regards what a true OBE actually is, think that a substance could induce it. However, that might have slipped past you. In any case, you are highly unlikely to get it from a substance...the somewhat mirrored effect you see in DMT is similar to what happens when you die (it is not the same, there are some differences) but whats actually happening is as you move into the subconscious and unconscious layers of the mind things pour out as consciousness folds in upon itself. It is still delusion and actually, this is what keeps people tethered to samsara and stuck on the cycle...they cannot get past their own minds or over the delusions they are immersed in and clinging to in the bardo. The ones that are particularly strong dictate the next incarnation to a degree...move past this, and the transmigration process is altered somewhat. Heres the problem with this...and one most people don't realise. Reaching into this state even, and not knowing how, why or what to do, can create problems at the time of actual death, and in the bardo. This is why you need a teacher, this is why you need people who understand it to a high level. Not some clown in a lab jacket pretending they understand these things It also is not a true OBE Are you experienced in entheogens as cultivation gateways? I have no interest in it. I hate to be blunt, but I'm not interested in tricking myself into thinking I've had some grand mystical experience. No more than I am interested in labelling rising yang qi as kundalini, or seeing colours as my chakras opening. Just like you cannot access the mechanics of alchemy without strong foundations, you cannot access shamanic ones either. There are masters, students and dabblers Masters know what is happening, students want to truly learn, and dabblers think they already know and make mental leaps about their experiences...guess which category 99% of people engaging in plants and substances fall into Emotion is nothing more than a reaction Well at least you are correct here...Emotion is a reaction, and in the realm of humans, it is a reaction to sensation, perception, thought....it is almost as if we react to our thoughts and experiences through emotion. I said that a few posts ago. Guess it was worth repeating I took far too much and the 8 hour experience was one of the crown chakra opening whereby I experienced the vast dimension of timeless space. Was it an emotional machine response? Hell no! Sounds like an emotional response to me. Moreover I'm pretty sure your crown chakra definitely did not open. Though if it did, you better go and tell all the Daoist Masters and Yogi's in the mountains practicing for decades to achieve just that, that they need no longer struggle how they are, you have the THC concentrate that will solve all their problems Also, given the myriad of siddhi associated with the chakras opening, I'm sure if that happened telling them all (perhaps all at once) shouldn't be an issue, bilocation, and teleportation are simple to what is essentially a deity in the earthly realm If not then the experience that human existence is made of light frequencies alludes you. It doesn't. I've had the alchemical experience ,of entering into a certain state and expanding the bandwidth of the visual field to include things most people only read about...and I did it sober, not under the influence of any substance. It wasn't fleeting either (It just arose) I've had a bunch of other things too that have been mentioned throughout this thread, more esoteric things (which I'm not going to elaborate on here)...and I've done it with my conscious awareness completely intact, and checked it over with teachers and multiple initiates...so I can safely say there was nothing delusionary about it...and this was something I wanted to be sure of...because there's enough woo woo and nonsense surrounding these topics. Far too much. Life experience is a risk. Sure it is...but the issue at hand was actually one of understanding the inherent risk of substances. Given the discussion in this thread, the concerns raised by myself and others who cultivate and have a bit of insight into the mechanics...Its sadly appears lost on most people in the wake of mental experiences masquerading as spiritual ones C'est la vie I guess...whatever floats peoples boats

Unfortunately, the issue is not that those faculties are misfiring, that is an effect, not a cause, and an oversimplification of processes that psychiatrists generally don't understand in the first place There is something else at play. I have already explained to you regards the shrinkage and abnormalities of the pineal and pituitary in these types of disorders. Oddly enough, drugs like olanzapine further mess up melatonin secretion. Because medicine cannot, and will never understand the mechanics behind sleep, what happens the mind, soul and spirit when you sleep...they will not ever crack this. Here is something for you to look into. The Po roots the Hun in physicality, if that was not to happen, a person becomes delusional. As freeform mentioned, when a person takes psychedelics, the po is suppressed and the hun becomes a bit less restricted. When you go to sleep, then Hun also likes to travel...consider what happens during dreams and all the mixed and mashed up (apparently) delusional information you get....it is not coincidence that you are (or should be) seeing connections So you might think you need this medication. That's fine, like I said. The reality is though, people in your situation have been asked to settle for this medication, and all the damage that comes with it because of a discipline which has falsely claimed an understanding of matters to which they really don't understand at all. And herein lies the problem...and this is what I am referencing. I have little issue with a persons choice. I have a big one with the "authority" influencing it @Cleansox made a good point above about the unattendance of issues that is equally problematic. However what we are seeing here is the presumption that these are a long term solution. But they really aren't. Yet to position them as such is what creates the myriad of problems...The further changes are time and dose dependant like I mentioned...The longer they are used, the worse it gets There is a further good point about the availability of teachers, and the risks of attempting energetic practices as a means to correct them. It is possible to fix these things, but it requires a person who knows what they are doing...and they are few and far between. Not impossible by any stretch (despite the fact its painted in that way), just requires some searching.

You can disagree with whatever you like, it does not make you correct. Humans process sensation, perception and thought via the bridge of emotion. Would you like to talk about the ones who struggle with this, such as those with alexithymia and so forth? The problem is that suffering is inherent to life, it permeates all aspects of it. That has nothing to do with religion, it is a byproduct of existence as an entity which has needs which must be met, and residence in an environment where the mind (via the sense faculties) is tricked into believing it needs things it does not, and corresponding neural networks are reshaped in the transformer accordingly....the further removed you become from the latter, the less complex it becomes. Go ask a tribal person if they are worried about Instagram pictures, or what brand of sneakers they have. No, they wont be...but you will find they might have concerns such as food, shelter and safety (amongst other things)

These are both fairly common reactions....A most common side effect is "the inability to feel". As humans process things though the emotions, this is extremely problematic... There is a huge difference between mastering the emotions through practice vs having a substance constrain and suppress them.

I'm not a Buddhist at all...but there is no human born who does not suffer...the intensity, duration and frequency may be variable, but there is nobody removed from it entirely. I'm sure you understand this, so Ill assume you are referring to something else rather than a black/white scenario?

And I know plenty like you (including a family member who has lost higher cognitive faculties as a result of long term antipsychotics) ..but I said the vast majority...not absolutely everyone 100% all the time.... Sorry for your suffering. Note how freeform mentioned earlier that the brain is like a step down transformer....it makes our experience human and relatable...Antipsychotics are known to reduce brain volume and activity and this is time and dose dependant...IE the amount of time you take them and how much you take will mess with your brain volume (amongst a whole raft of other things). This effect is particularly potent in the pituitary gland, and the pineal gland is already reduced in size in schizophrenics, and shows increased calcification. So when you are talking about disorders of the mind, and you are taking a substance which messes with these two glands in a major way....The long term outcome isn't going to be good, at all. Also, that reduction in pineal size is specific to the likes of schizophrenia and associated disorders, it does not carry over to mood disorders If you think about what happens when you take psychedelics vs what happens a person during psychosis...and you read between some of the lines in what was posted in the thread. You should be able to begin to form a picture of what happens to people during schizotypal and psychotic illness...The very fact that psychedelics can and often do trigger these things should be a giveaway..I've left a few hints throughout the thread...I wont be elaborating further though So you can disagree with me if you wish, I have no problem with that. I'm just telling you it is well documented that for the vast majority of people...medication does far more harm than good...yet in that same note....you have people being given antipsychotics because they have trouble sleeping ( a commonly accepted medical practice, yet actually further screwing up the Pineal Gland) All of this this is done in the name, not of solving a problem, rather, a means of tricking the brain into thinking there isn't one while the negative effects accumulate and the root of the problem never dissipates If you feel like that's a good treatment and are happy with it, more power to you...though I would suggest looking into TCM....Wendan Decoction is something that I've known to be used to great effect.

Suffering is inherent to samsara and part of the human condition... You'll find that when you're willing to go with it...Life becomes much easier. No matter how bad it is, someone has it worse...so either be sad about how bad it is, or be grateful it isn't as bad as the other person.It is really a matter of perspective...and in fact a lot of " mental illness" from the depressive and anxiety categories do indeed have these matters at their very core...amongst other things. Meanwhile, the psychiatric community have convinced the general public that depression is "a chemical imbalance".

Are psychiatric medications overprescribed? Probably Replace probably with definitely Do they have harmful side effects? Most definitely The question is, do the ends justify the means...and in the case we are talking about the answer is a resounding no...Another question is..do you have any idea just how harmful? I don't think it's fair to characterize me as someone who is "all for more harm than help" If you are all for psychedelics being appropriated, exploited, regulated and mainstreamed according to the trajectory that big pharma and the likes of RCH are currently headed down...if you are any bit for that even...then yes, unfortunately you are supporting more harm than help. That doesn't mean that's a principle you live by...I am talking specifically about the domain under discussion...FYI...the current knowledge base is that they do more harm than good...the agenda is now to overturn that because the SSRI cracks are starting to show I refuse to second guess the choices of those who, in consultation with a medical professional, decide that pills are the way to go Here's where that argument falls down. It is the labelling abnormal mental patterns a "medical issue" and expecting pills to be the answer...Since when did medicine have the first clue about how the mind works? No I think you'll find in order to get to matters pertaining to the mind (and beyond) One needs to step firmly away from reductive materialism and all of its offspring. But, if you feel comfortable placing your trust in an institution that has zero knowledge of these matters...proceed as you wish. However...do feel free to show me where matters pertaining to medicine and the mind meet with a clarity of understanding...because the mind is not a part of the body, and medicine cannot, by its very nature deal with matters that are nonphysical. You understand the hard problem of consciousness I presume? Do you run some sort of nonpharmaceutical treatment program for chronic mental illness? No...I just have seen enough science to know that it is crooked to the core, enough psychiatry to know it is a non runner, and enough people get better from methods that work with either the body & mind ( or mind directly in milder cases) to know that the answer is not sitting at the bottom of a jar of pills, from transcranial magnetic stimulation, from psychedelics or from people pontificating over a series of nonunified split assumptions about how the mind works. You cannot fix the mind unless you understand the roots of the causality chain causing the issue...and a lot of the time...the problem is one related not to a situation, but rather, one related to an inability to accept emotional suffering as a product of said situation. Acceptance of suffering, believe it or not...is a major barrier for most people. Nobody wants to suffer, and yet we all must in some shape or form. It is whether we pick up our cross and carry it, or refuse to accept that burden that is a major, major problem Are you willing to relocate to Ensenada, Mexico? Or perhaps you can recommend a local practitioner of your method? Nope and It is nothing to do with my method at all...Alternative medicines and practices have been around since forever...the problem is access to authentic people who can really help you...Not charlatans or wishful thinkers You have no idea. I'm fairly sure I do...I may not know you...but I know that situation you described all too well To repeat myself, I seen more of these problems than I would care to admit...Young men hanging themselves from fences in local communities, doorways using ties, being cut down from trees by their partners... overdoses and deaths from benzo's, antipsychotics and other drugs given by doctors...psychotic folk who do believe that their smartphone is giving them orders to march, aim and take cover...handwashing so extreme that layers of skin have been removed and bleeding is an everyday thing...People afraid to leave their house long before COVID was a thing...I could write a book ( and I am a young man myself) So yes I do understand the desperate need for anything that will help...And your situation, while it means the world to you (As have some of mine to me) ...is inconsequential to the larger events taking place on a worldwide scale...there is a very big problem with trying to use a substance to fix the mind, especially when you don't understand the mind

Antipsychotics and Antidepressants cause far more problems than they alleviate Yet, you ignore the fact that all three substances...Antipsychotics, Antidepressants and Psychedelics pretty much cause more harm than they fix in the vast majority of people. Those that benefit are few, and in most cases it is either placebo or suggestion or some other design flaw...It is a very small minority of people who require antipsychotics Paleo diets, vitamins and exercise are besides the point. It is the mind that needs to be fixed...and it doesnt require a substance to fix it....but plenty of them can break it far more than it is already But hey, if you are all for more harm than help coloured by your personal experience...more power to you. Just know it has been that attitude that has led to the current predicament of substance abuse and misuse BTW that's coming from someone who's dealt and been around multiple people personally and professionally with all manner of mental illnesses....schizophrenia, OCD, depression, BPD, Personality disorders, addicts, suicide attemptees ADHD, Autism...you name it....and all other manner of psychological disturbances The harms of the vaccine, at present, are but a blip compared to the damage the pseudoscience of psychiatry has done

Calling a situation for what it is, Is not confirmation bias...but by all means we can discuss that if you want...Care to tell me whats the issue with anything ive stated? But while we are here...Running into your own mind isn't some profound experience one needs to take a substance for...and for anyone without an abundance of qi....that's whats happening...Moving between "realms" requires fuel. Fuel pretty much anyone feeling the need to take psychedelics probably does not have. And if you did, by chance happen to have it for whatever reason...without the cultivational qualities derived from esoteric training...you run the very real risk of "getting stuck"...amongst other things The reality of the situation is a bit bleaker, but freeform stated it. You cant touch on spirit with mushrooms or psychedelics. So, as is the case with most folk... when you are running into your own mind, it is still delusion. This happens when you fall asleep, and at the first point of death. Most people are so busy with their own mind pouring out when they die, it dictates their next incarnation..particularly the facets which have buried deep. And as for dreams with all their weird symbology, well that's the same thing...what distinguishes sleep and trips is the nature of your conscious awareness really....death is a bit trickier So you could literally train yourself to enter into these states between waking and sleeping...it isn't even hard to be honest...the method and a little perseverance and the subconscious mind is easily accessed, and can be overcome to an extent. As time goes on, the Hun can interface with you and premonitions can become the norm (dreamless sleep should occur in all other cases). If you cultivate to a high level the mind no longer blocks it with all its delusions There is an exception to the rule here...which is trance states. If you get the right training, you can learn to navigate the mind, and in some manners, cultivate the quality of wisdom, whereby you gain insight into things like the nature of causality...combined with energetics and ritual work, this can be quite profound. Because you start to be able to navigate chains of causality temporally...past, present and future. This is why shamanism focuses so heavily on trance states as opposed to meditation. It is a means to access and navigate the mental world, and one level above and below humanity with extra training ( as freeform kindly pointed out)

Yes, because I imagine they most likely had access to insight above and beyond most peoples. You may elaborate, But as I understand it...these shamans have an affinity to working with things like stilling the Jing. Their severe diets are an indication of it. I'm reminded of those in deep alchemical training when I contrast. I think anyone who understands anything about esoteric matters would share your concerns. It is lost on a lot of people...but then they don't get it that a lot of individuals tend to suffer immensely when they are exposed to their own mind...More than are helped in my experience...particularly when it comes to the psychiatric community

Yes Jungian ones too...Jung was quite confused about many things. Some things he got right...some things he did not. His understanding of alchemy is a good example. It is unfortunate in some senses...because he did have some worthwhile knowledge. The centres you speak of are the flip side of the same coin...They equally have no business administering these substances....and they are facilitated by this sudden "mainstream" interest. Like I said...if someone feels up to taking the risk of a trip...that is their business. I have no issue with it...It is the appropriation, exploitation, legislation and administration off the back of a false knowledge base and zero understanding of the mechanics that I have a problem with. Im sorry but you are incorrect. It isnt a hard science, nor a soft science. It is a hybrid attempt to bridge a gap between arts and the sciences, which it fails at. You cannot quantify the mind. A rudimentary understanding of the nature of the soul and spirit will facilitate ones understanding as to why this is the case. Funnily enough, these things are readily rejected by science...it isn't within their ability to ever understand these matters...Hence my point Yes I do realise the inherent weaknesses in the method.. all of it. I spend a good portion of my time un-indoctrinating people who fall into the fallacy of believing in this is actually a sound knowledge base As for a "plot". Well no...universities are not plotting with Pharma... What is happening is a few people who have some sliver of decency left in their soul question the status quo. They do work and expose the current facade...so then the pharma companies tend to go elsewhere..the "next big thing"...and they line the pockets of researchers, put them in well paid positions as "advisors to give them the results they want...In return they get huge grants, fame and lots of personal wealth...and the companies... they have their "evidence base" which is basically a licence to operate in todays environment. That is currently what is happening with the whole psychedelics interest. @freeformwords ring true...the vast majority of shamanic treatments don't involve psychedelics. No individual has any business laying claim to this stuff off the back of pretending they understand how it works, and basically building the bridge for big pharma to come in, appropriate this, regulate it and so forth I've seen this film before, and I know how it ends...By the way of mass administration...they might help a few...they will harm a lot more...But then that's what science does right? Anyone thinking it "solves" problems really hasn't spent long enough at it to read between the lines.

They had no business using them then, and have no business using them now...And 70 years later they still haven't a clue and are just further digging holes. You might not be privy to how the psychiatric industry works...I happen to be...and this "reinvigoration" is nothing more than an attempt to divert attention away from blinding issues such as this https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20080227/antidepressants-no-better-than-placebo#:~:text=Antidepressants vs.,of the journal PLoS Medicine. Psychiatry isn't a science....Neither is psychology for that matter...and neuroscience is just correlative mental leaping.. The human mind is not quantitative....regardless of how desperately they want it to be...and chasing after blips on an EEG or a bit of blood movement from an fMRI whilst using what is really a nonrepresentative measure of mental responses just does not cut it in any shape or form And you might wonder how a person in the field can speak like that (quite hypocritical one could argue) ...the answer is simple....observation and a refusal to be wooed by headlines and sensationalism But like I said...go pick any trial...from the past or present...Ill gladly systematically pick it apart piece by piece