Shadow_self

I think the confusion with visualization is what it is used for, what it can do, and where the mistakes are Very often you hear visualise the qi moving this way, or visualize this beam of light, or these currents/colours running in and out The problem, from what I have understood with that is two fold...and this is just an opinion Firstly, it is engaging the mind in a way that can be counterproductive to practices involving energy....by the way of over-engaging the mind with a mental "stimulus"...The second issue, is that it can lead to false sensations....I don't think elaboration is required there That being said, I'm fairly certain visualization is not entirely useless. For example it can be used productively in certain cases to train certain mental qualities as it is done in certain Buddhist lines (though its been relayed to me that this is only initially) , but my guess is that, it is the distinction between training a mental quality vs working with energy that people fail to make.... but if one is training a mental quality, then it may lend itself to other practices later on that do involve the physical energetic bodies....I assume this is a sequencing issue? What further muddies this line is that in deeper meditative training, you do start to see very strange things. Colours lights etc...but what seems to have happened is wires appear to have been crossed, and so, the understanding of the causality chain is incorrect Before the misunderstanding Person begins meditation - Person's visual field becomes engulfed in white light (Cause/Action) (Effect/Response) After the misunderstanding Close your eyes a visualize a white light engulfing you in order to sink into a meditative state (Error) (Effect/Response) (Cause/Action) So it feels like some people mixed it up somewhere and that's what got passed down Im not experienced enough to talk at length about that, but they are just my initial musings on the situation. I imagine the matter is far more detailed and complicated than this

Another point or two worth noting, I know of individuals who have training in actual, genuine fa qi focused lineages, who have dropped those practices in favour of the material above....practices that cost a lot of money, time and effort to learn. Ones they had dedicated years too.....I wont get into the why....but that's what they did. The idea that spiritual cultivation ( which is what is actually important and the actual goal of neidan) is somehow inexplicitly dependant on being able to emit an electric like current is simply a non runner.....it is just not true....there are only certain lines who are focused on this type of stuff....and really, it is just that...one way of approaching things. You can be a John Chang like being, and still be a completely deplorable individual...so yeah..fa qi would not be a good benchmark for a system of spiritual cultivation Moreover, I imagine if people were to get access to authentic practices from Shangqing, Maoshan or even some of the lesser known ones from the Longmen/Quanzhen lineages....they would soon have their eyes opened to some far higher level things than qi emission....the important point here, is that all that foundational material posted above...is what allows the higher stuff to actually work.... Spend a few years practicing Damos material diligently, and approach a high level master....they will treat you VERY differently to how they would treat an average person. who had just been practicing systems without proper YJJ principles and foundations running throughout the curriculum People want to skip that hard work (and make no mistake it is very hard, physically just as much as mentally)..but really it is key to opening up so much of the internal arts

3 years ago he was claiming the title of novice......thats not what i'd consider an old hand.... I have regularly ran the material by people with 10+ years experience....and people with lineage specific insights....the same answers come back every time....it is authentic... But by all means, you are most welcome, and I say this sincerely, to show me a shred of real evidence where anything said individual stated that places the efficacy of that system into questions hold credence... because honestly...all I see is conjecture, fallacy and bias in large amounts....which is unsurprising really

They are speaking from a place of no knowledge whatsoever...a self proclaimed novice with a weird attachment to the fa qi phenomenon...and nothing of use to add Pretty much a mirror image of every Mo Pai zealot that came before them I see a lot of talking and shouting, wrapped in a bouquet of logical fallacies and cognitive biases...but nothing of actual substance or meaningful discussion To put it bluntly, they have no idea what they are talking about...

Of course it is well worth it Ignore the self proclaimed novice....they speaks from a position of total ignorance on these matters

The tuition fee for the 10 days is $4000 dollars US, with lodging & airfare to be arranged separately. Your lack of insight into the matter really knows no bounds does it?

You speak as if speaking from a position of knowledge....I merely provided your own words that you wrote recently enough, as an indicator of said knowledge, and said it was pretty telling (which it is, in terms of criticism) So it isn't that I'm saying you lack knowledge, or are a novice...you said that yourself ( therefore not a personal attack). Moreover..Im not appealing to any authority...I'm merely contrasting....Im not screaming "but Damo said"...I'm just saying you called yourself a person who lacked knowledge and a novice..and you also said Damo had the knowledge/skill to trick people (notice you said he had knowledge...knowledge you said you lack) These are all your own words....So no logical fallacies here my friend.......you may want to re-evaluate your use of the terms You are free to hold any belief you wish, Its not my loss or gain... However, publicly bashing a teacher and his students...that requires strong evidence...…evidence which I have yet to see...it also requires knowledge....knowledge which you admitted above you do not have (and that is just general cultivation knowledge....not Longmen/Quanzhen specific, which is what you'd actually need). There's only one person on this board I know with that kind of knowledge.....and you literally told that person you don't believe them.....which again is fine...you're welcome to believe whatever you wish. But....In the spirit of fairness....here's what we can do, why don't you outline and explain exactly what you call "sawdust" and we can examine that Moreover, you should also outline your own teacher and practices...seeing as you are so badly trying to put others under the spotlight....I feel it is only fair you mention what it is you feel is so superior...and why

Three years ago you came on here and wrote this The reasoning behind "I don't believe i can contribute somehow in your conversations" is that i am a novice and there is no point in me debating with more advanced practitioners. You are now here publicly calling out someone as a fraud, who only has a couple of decades worth of cultivation experience more than you To say this speaks volumes....would be an understatement...

What is both mind boggling and sad is that the ones who are trying to criticise him neither understand what he teaches, nor have experienced any of it...Yet all of a sudden they become "experts" when in fact their opinion isn't really relevant.This manifests in two ways...the typical...my neigong is right, his is not....or else.....his is not and I know of better ones. Neither are valid criticisms....and I have yet to see a genuine valid criticism of him on this board (and I'll most likely be waiting). But its equally funny and sad to see peoples egos flaunted, especially when their cognitive biases and predispositions have them conditioned to the level where the focal point of their concentration and understanding is no longer dynamic, but rather, static. Damo's students know the story with his teachings via experience, and of his ability if they've trained in person with him (the public know very little of his actual ability, and one can see why). Equally valid are ones who come from similar lineages (inner door students) who can attest to their authenticity, safety and ability to progress individuals along the path of neigong and neidan. That is whats important in the grand scheme....the rest, and I say this respectfully, is just noise

It is not only spoken of, but emphasized

I purposely didnt elaborate on the "weird" But if you mean where I'd stated weird pulling.......What I meant was if you've felt that strong jerking motion to a high degree....you'd nearly think from the outside that a person was being pushed..the Yin field organising itself and consolidating is quite weird for someone who has never experienced it before

Perhaps you can elaborate? I had it that this rejuvenation at the physical level would only occur at the stages of XSJ and JSJ, that it would be very much linked to the Jing, and that in a modern life, in society....the Jing would be subject to overstimulation and it would be harder to see this happen...and it was really only hermits you'd see it at the physical level to a very profound degree Also, @Feng69 important to remember that "reversing aging" also refers to the quality of the mind, and that peeling back the layers of the acquired allows one to have a childlike nature and be "present" if that sounds right? Probably an oversimplification

What is strange is... the person trying to bash said teacher had to be told what the YJJ process is, despite making claims about teachers and students who he has no idea of their level of attainment. Apparent from the posting is that they, by their own words, seem to not understand the difference between activation, consolidation and storage....and that the "storage" aspect of the dantien is actually a byproduct of the consolidation of the Yin field, and the ability to open/close the LDT... Some of the methods for activation (or awakening the LDT) and consolidation are actually floating around on the internet for free (true story)..someone even posted a DTG set here months ago You cannot store Qi until that field is consolidated....its like pouring water into a strainer... it isn't hard to activate the LDT (Im sure you know that) ..it just takes time....and effort...and sweat...filling it is a different story entirely though Ive now seen 3 different methods for activation with some variations and some similarities.... they all work, and I know of two others...one of which is teacher assisted, and the other which relates to the use of sound People like the aforementioned talk unnecessarily and from an uneducated standpoint on the matter...thats about the sum of it though.... when you spontaneously start getting electric shocks and your LDT starts moving and pulling you in all sorts of weird ways...and heavy zifagong starts.....you will have no doubts in your mind....There's also the very unpleasant activity of the lower aspects of the digestive system clearing itself out...I dont even use the heat as a measure anymore...I've had too many far weirder things happen than that

I dont need to know what tradition you are talking about to correct the fact that you are wrong in stating the YJJ process in its entirety is not rare ...fortunately in that regard...I DO know what I am talking about Im not overly concerned with "other paths"..and as for the person ZZ and meditation...well yes...that's generally how you activate the LDT...standing practice Open the Huang in the feet, open lines of conduction through the legs to abdomen... the field of the planet can be experienced....shaking begins....starts in legs...reaction in the LDT....fields begin to develop.... It isnt rocket science or some magical alternative method....strong Zifagong is usually an indication things are going right

Im not hijacking anything....just correcting your selective attention bias.... Please refrain from discussing things you don't know (Do you see how that works)...perhaps if you listened to what people were telling you instead of placing your misplaced opinion on a pedestal....you'd see nobody gains anything by endorsing him (least of all me)

Freeform said the method for the YJJ process is, and he is correct. Because that leads into the XSJ and then the JSJ....and that stuff just isnt available to the vast majority of people....ie rare/lost... Qi emission can easily be done by someone pumping a "person" full of qi and then showing them how to push it out...so...it is not so black and white

@Cleansox the answer was already provided....the individual in question just doesn't want to accept it...therein lies the issue At this stage, it's just trolling....because hes been told by several people the methods work....including one whos actually been face to face with Damos students Acceptance is tough for some people...

Your answer is quoted above...nothing else needs to be said.....the methods work.... I am not taking any leap of faith...my leap of faith was when i initially started training..Ive had confirmation...over and over....via my own practice and via others verification.... @freeform just gave you another endorsement of Damo's teachings You require nothing more....and further discourse on this topic of what Damo's students have achieved is futile.....you have you answer

The emphasis on opening the body up according to YJJ is actually the one thing that when I've spoken to other practitioners they seemed to be lacking....all that physical work is actually quite hard in a sense...especially dao yins...that sounds strange given I used to be big into weightlifting...its just a different type of strain altogether The people that I discussed it with who have been able to discuss these things in a language I understand...and one or two who showed me some pretty strange displays....they all say repeat the same mantra... Foundations foundations foundations...they literally told me you will get nowhere if the body doesn't change.... While ive never interacted with the seniors (yet) ..I'm pretty sure they embody that notion, given that the curriculum is very much focused on the YJJ principles. I find it very interesting that Damo constantly catches the radar of people who seem to love baselessly criticising and have a tendency towards the "my neigong is better than yours" approach...Its baffling when you consider what he actually teaches,, how he teaches it, and what he charges....it boggles the mind how anyone could have a bad word to say about him.. Theres also a bit of confusion surrounding northern vs southern neigong/neidan methods..another thread perhaps. I had never been shown the method for consolidating and filling the LDT until I met him....afterwards I caught a few glimpses of it in places...and then I also encountered other methods from skilled practitioners (funny how that happens)….but his was the most detailed explanation I was given..

You asked me if it builds.. My response is it does.... My reasoning is that I have had the markers confirmed by people for other lineages who have such achievements.... and I know a few from different places....they also confirm the accuracy of the methods...in fact more than a few people have confirmed this to me...so these are independent sources..as in plural The fact I do not interact with Damo's students has zero to do with it. I have my own circles. Me not being able to answer the question as to what his senior students achievements are, has absolutely nothing to do with their achievement. Think of it as the equivalent to the following scenario Hey those people you don't know over there, I understand they occupy the same space as you. Do you know if they have a college degree....or do they own their own home...etc etc....then I respond, well I don't know....then the response is either....well they must not have a degree, or own their own their own, because you don't know if they do (x=0)….or else ok I guess we don't know ( x=?) By all accounts, I'm not trying to pre-empt anything because the answer as of now is x=? and unless you want to actually speak to them, examine them or whatever....it will remain that way But here's the kicker, I really have no interest in what his seniors have achieved, if I did, Id have asked by now...and whats more confusing, is why are you asking a person who has no knowledge of it, nor any desire to know about others achievements? Whether you care is irrelevant., I'm only stating the facts...and the fact is, his methods do what they say. I've experienced them...people who have levels of achievement have verified it independently for me. So that's pretty much the end of the discussion on the matter from my side....make of it what you will, and quite frankly what you make of it or feel about it, is respectfully, of no real importance, concern or relevance to me...my practice continues regardless. Whatever you choose to do with that information is entirely up to you

You're not reading correctly....that's half the issue....the other half is you are asking me to objectify and quantify other people I've not interacted with...why you feel the need to do so is beyond me... I don't interact with Damo's seniors being honest...and they are really the ones you are referring to, unless you are totally lost and think people should have a fully consolidated and filled LDT in one year...which if you are is just ridiculous. I can tell you that I know whats happening me is according to both Damo, and people I know in other lineages who have been doing this for some time, the correct markers for the dan tien being activated, built and beginning to fill..make of it what you will, I'm really not bothered So with respect...I already answered your question...yes it builds the lower Dan Tien....this is my third time repeating it in this thread Potent means it does it effectively, as opposed to other methods that well...don't....that's a pretty open and shut definition

I said it does what it says on the tin...Damo mentions building the field for example...it does exactly that..and as you might also know...DTG involves filling the LDT...and it does that too. Have built, or are building? I cannot answer the former, the latter, however I can easily state...the majority who practice consistently. You need to remember the IAA is only open just over a year. Are you saying to me you expect people to have built and filled a LDT in that time? When you begin DTG work, start feeling your things moving around inside (im being purposely vague), and phenomena start arising...things get very real, very quickly. What follows is not in any way subtle or imaginary. There is no visualisations, no imagining, no mental forcing....it happens and it does what it is intended to do.... When you do the material as it is presented it works....and it works very, very well.....that is why I mentioned it is very potent. I'm not interested in slating other systems here... The whole "my neigong is better than yours" and so forth. I'd rather not go there personally, it is not required I can say with full confidence, some of the other things that happened to me are beyond what I would have imagined...and very much well outside the paradigm of what we could label "normal". I wont elaborate further as we already established it isn't necessary...but I reiterate the following point. I have absolutely nothing to gain by endorsing it.

1. It isn't sacred, you just aren't someone I can see myself sharing anything of worth with.....we have dramatically different value systems, and you're the type of person I just dont really want to speak to in general, let alone about things of interest. In this cause it is absolutely, very much personal. I've seen your posting history...your general attitude and approach whilst here looks more like you just want to argue and dig at people, with zero basis or evidence on which to do so. 2. The information isn't secret, there are people that I've discussed it with. So again, its very much personal, and I quite literally, have a personal issue with you, namely that your attitude and presence here is much more a nuisance than anything else, based on what I've seen. Had you not been so disrespectful and full of such a bad attitude...perhaps things could be different. However, they aren't, and I can see my first judgement of you was inherently correct. 3. Damos reasoning for not using such forums as here have nothing to do with what you've mentioned.....now you're just lying...but then, given everything else, this is surely a natural progression for you. 4. The moderators just asked you to be respectful, much like I did from the outset.....your absolute lack of ability to do so, tells me everything I need to know. 5. You really have no business asking anyone about abilities. You should be asking for a teacher who can give you lessons is basic etiquette, manners, humility and respect......15 years of so called cultivation, and lacking those most basic faculties...its begs the question, exactly what in the world you spent your time doing? It seems like you want to now blame peoples level of intellectual and cognitive development....that's all to typical of someone like you....even when multiple people are telling you, that you're out of line....that ego just cant let you accept it. Instead, you'll cast distortion after distortion over the actual facts of the matter to insulate that precious little part of yourself you cherish so dearly. I don't want to keep repeating myself, so consider this my last response.but its just a sad thing to see.

I haven't been bamboozled by anyone...and I certainly don't feel the need to defend Damo...his ability, and achievments stand on their own merit Its strange how you feel the need to insult people with no actual basis to do so...I sense a deep insecurity at the psychological level from you.....how very sad

Im aware its a public forum...hence the reason I told you im not detailing anything....also probably the reason that glowing ego of yours is radiating like anything....you really should give that the attention it deserves....its quite a sad thing to see My confidence isn't in myself....Indeed I am a newcomer..Rather its a result of a shared collective experience, combined with some objective confirmation and equally...guidance from several people not only Damos students, but also in other lineages who have explained things to me.....So your chart...much like every other word you've typed thus far, is essentially meaningless Now please go annoy someone else....that seems to be a past-time of yours based on the posting history....it is pretty sad for a person who claims to have 15 years cultivation, to have the manner of a person who has not cultivated anything at all...how unfortunate