Shadow_self

Actually Damo didnt tell me that at all You really cant help but be dishonest, can you?

Im glad you believe that, genuinely I am However, considering you claim mastery of neidan, and stated you've formed the embryo Yet Havent had a transformation thats rippled down to the physical level (in fact you deny it) Cannot explain things like Jing without confusing the prenatal and postnatal Havent observed a siddhi, nor developed one You might find you may have a hard time convincing others of that same claim And TT, as for sexual fluids, They are only the outcome of the Yin aspect of Jing, and they are produced by food and drink (its replacable) Its the Yang aspect of Jing we worry about, The "True Fire" in water. The middle line below Interfering with that middle line, happens long before any type of ejaculation This is demonstrating that you dont have a handle on the extraction process, nor , the proper alchemical MCO But as we've seen historically, this isnt your first time demonstrating confusion around neidan matters when discussing it with someone who does practice it Ill await the traditional, dismissal of the very true point above, and the usual rhetoric

I dont believe you to be in a position to comment on my understanding of mind to be honest The ones that do have them, are normally not public, or if they are, usually take a fair bit of digging around But by all means, feel free to discuss more This would indicate a misunderstanding of how mind works imo. Your mind is the most unstable, impermanent thing you have. Impossible to remove ideas would denote someone doesnt know how to practice properly, which, actually, is probably more common that you would care to believe Xin Zhai and Zuowang, or "Heart Mind Fasting" and "Sitting and Forgetting" is how one approaches this, and its not unique to Daoism (though the name is) One stops the "accumulations" the other breaks down the "accumulated" Its never a matter of "collecting signs" and thats a misrepresentation to be perfectly honest. Its more a matter of being guided towards a destination, by people who've walked that path before you, and can prove it Id liken it to having an experienced tour guide Trailblazers dont get far in most cases. The most common scenario with that is they walk a few steps, pretend they've got to the destination and then lower the bar and that becomes the new benchmark This is not rare, in fact it is everywhere My experience tells me quite the opposite. The further I go into these methods, the less I draw towards any of it Usually the "gravity" is the mind being pulled into the acquired "decorations" Beneath the surface, the congenital, things arent quite the same Upon initiation, theres a transmission into a lineage, and thats less gravitational and more like a connection But even then, most initiations are little more than cultural relics from what I've seen

Hold on a moment...Lets have you address the fact that you dont seem to understand the point about Jing firstly Is it (A) protecting the sperm, or (b) protecting the essence Pick one please, and note they are not the same thing

Try it on somebody else ?

Start with this one Its a great starting point

Yes indeed. How this is escaping people is beyond me. Its warned against in literally all the traditions Its a peculiar one. Reigning in desire naturally creates detachment from sexual tendencies anyway. Working on stilling the jing in general would help prepare one for celibacy where and when its required Whereas trying to be celibate off the bat because a book told you so is more likely to create issues without the right understanding of what you actually need to do. Terms like "protecting the sperm" are an indication the message was not fully recieved imo

Yeah the artwork in his books is really something else Its probably the only reason I kept the old hardbacks I have

Plenty of people do, its a rather large topic in the IMA scene Of course if you keep asking Chidragon, you'll most likely end up running into the same constant confusion and errors he seems to with many of these things. But if you wish to understand it, heres someone who knows what they are talking about, You'll probably be able to understand why its such an issue after watching this

Yes I'm very sure In its current form, the following are the most commonly seen things, in my opinion Serious problems with energetic pathogens being transferred and accumulated Seriously tax the body and organs as the energetic system is not set up to handle such a refined type of Qi People doing it generally dont have the sensitivity to pick up on it, and by the time they do, its often too late

The answer is there for you TT, its just not one you like because it shows your understanding of Jing is lacking unfortunately Of course, engaging with that answer would just further dig the hole deeper. So its more convienent for you to avoid that and pretend I didnt answer right? Like I said, if you're going to engage, do so honestly.

What exactly does power have to do with it? Regards the term powers. I take issue with the term. These are not new things acquired in many cases, they are dormant faculties brought forward How legitimate a system is, in my experience is the degree to which some of these things can be awakened as a byproduct of the practice (not the aim) Physical changes for example, are something that indicate the bridge between form and formless is connected, or connecting Behind closed doors, these things often serve as a litmus test whether or not transformation is actually happening, or is just some mental fabrication of the practitioner Let me give you just one simple and non bizarre example, made by a member held in high regard here You cant fake these types of things. And these are some of the least weird ones Whether you work top down or bottom up, you will go through some physical shifts if the connection is made, though the bottom up is more profound in some ways The other reason is the vast majority havent got the capacity to carry any transformation from formlessness back to form, so never develop any. What they get instead is experiences that most often, do not stabilize Thats not a limitation of the person, its a limitation of the epoch of time we are in (which is known amongst high level folk) Well, im just answering and asking as they come in. I have no agenda. Theres quite a bit written from well respected academics about what the current orthodoxy is representative of. Crosby book would be worth a read for some history You expect someone to speak openly on such things? I think you will be sadly disappointed in that case. Im about as generous as they come with information, but even I have my lines from all my teachers that I wont cross Forunately, exoteric Buddhism is not my concern. But my intent is not about sowing doubt, and I am not a Buddhist or a Daoist I practice their systems. I dislike labels As I already mentioned to you, I take no issue with anyone practicing the modern iteration What I do know, is if someone is practicing an authentic path of transformation, the effects will ripple downward into form You can see some of the Asana basically inscribed into heiroglyphics, though that requires a fair bit of digging. I was interested a long time ago. I really couldnt care less now to be honest The traditions are all but dead, and the current rise of modern "kemetic" yoga will kill any chance anyone has of finding decent resources on it. Youll find a bit about it if you look hard enough. Its just a complete mess with this topic Hermetics would be the best example carrying over teachings, and as you know they have a three stage system - Physical, Energetic and Spiritual. Most of the hermetic schools lost the physical part or hid it. Today any teachers I know that do teach it, usually augment the practice with Yijinjing, Hatha or Trul Khor to fill the gap. Some of the lesser public sects retain some of them as far as Im aware Sorry, I really dont have the patience to go digging for this type of material, if you do, be my guest Then we have very different understandings of them, which is fine

I believe the answer is (d) All the stuff that begins stirring the jing in the first place is whats discouraged No stirring - Desire reigns in No Desire - No arousal No Arousal - no sex No sex - no ejaculation Look at all the bolded text...all jing being "harmed". All not, "ejaculation", which is just the final "harming" of even more of it So TT, the problem isnt actually the ejaculation, its a few steps back from it, Nott only that, but desire isnt just limited to sex, its related to ALL of the sense faculties and emotions and habitual patterns. Food, sound, taste, smell, touch, emotions, mind All of it needs to be stilled Celibacy wont sort that mess out, Im sorry to tell you So yes, "protecting the sperm" is a terrible translation, and covers a small portion of guarding the essence Id normally have expected you to know better, but then, our recent exchanges show me otherwise

It should form a part of it yes. Pretty sure what he's saying is what Huang is talking about is also related to the DDJ, which is linked to meditation also, , so hopefully that joins the dots for you Pretty sure Ge put it together, and Mattias translated it into English If youre going to quote me, do it honestly instead of attempting to chop and change a conversation to suit your normal strategy of avoiding topics you cant speak on please

Well it does, but, you dont understand. Which is ok The jing isnt protected by not losing sperm. Thats perhaps the most partial understanding of it one could have, but would be unsurprising if the sole source of ones information is books It starts being "harmed" long before any type of ejaculation happens, and under many different circumstances Its protected by not allowing the substance to go through its usual routine, which is many steps prior to that, and often has nothing to do with semen or sex at all I think the term you are looking for is lacking, and partial, which I believe to be the case

Interesting book....

I understand exactly what it means. It means someone doesnt know the difference between sperm and essence Semen is not vital essence, Semen contains vital essence A person who practices neidan and knows what they are talking about would understand the distinction The others who never did, are forgiven for their lack of practical understanding. You (according to your self proclaimed status) should know better

Yes I agree When we get to the people who are telling the story demonstrating various paranormal abilties, and producing documents from lineage amongst other things, their legitimacy tends to rise in my opinion Moreover, when you too become able to reproduce some rather odd effects (and physiological changes) , the legitimacy tends to rise further You've probably become familiar with the story of the Buddha emitting rays of visible light upon teaching the Paṭṭhāna Thats quite a literal thing, hard as that might be to swallow. Freeform was the only other person Ive seen mention it before, but yes, a very real thing So again, when people start demonstrating bizarre phenomena like this, you tend to give them an ear Because you brought it up. I was being respectful in acknowledging what you said, but letting you know its not something I can really get into It did. For example, Tantric teachings were around in Ancient Egypt. You understand this predates the Samkhya I presume? I dont know. i just asked you a question is all Is there an issue with the question? You were the one who mentioned points of significance. Im just curious regards your knowledge of the significance here is all

Wait you mean I dont need to store it at -196 C and breathe into it? Gee, what an awful translation...

I mean before the current iteration of it. You can read various bits and pieces about what currently passes as "Theravada" elsewhere. Its not hard to find discussion about it Im not really at liberty to discuss what I know about the Vishuddimagga in depth, thought that would be a fun thread! But in a nutshell, its not complete. To put it another way. It is for the public. Which is why it is public It would be good to understand that long before things were written down, they were transmitted orally, along with many other things, which are not written down. Moreover, not everything that is written down is public either Tantra existed in writing prior to the VM, and before that orally. So that argument doesnt really hold steam imo What exactly do you think the purpose of that focal point is?

Youd be surprised. The pre-reform Theravadan tradition is actually more like Neidan to be honest. Much more It too seeks to create an immortal body. Some of them are the same/similar, some are different It also has a manner of using the Pali language, that is lost to the modern presentations (thats not something I can discuss though)

i didnt take that from Damo. I just have access to both methods. They are different Yes. Neigong doesnt require one to have their mind sorted out to a great extent, Neidan does Much of the work with latter has a specific set of mental conditions that act as barriers to entry Put another way , heres one example (This would be a very gross comparision, so treat it as such please) Boxing and MMA. Both assume a good level of skill in combat. But put a boxer into a ring with an MMA guy, and once the kicks, knees, elbows, wrestling, takedowns and ground fighting start, the boxer will have a lot of trouble You can relate the expanded complexity to the machinations of the mind, being and other things (like morals) that need dealing with when doing neidan, that one can, to some degree skate around when doing neigong Neidan is more complex, and much harder to gain any measure of success in. A foundation in neigong helps drastrically, and in my opinion, would be needed Hopefully that helps

Well the thing is, the pre-reform Theravada has a slightly different focal point For everything the Dhammakaya got wrong, that was the one thing they got right Of course, it might not surprise you to contrast with this

Well, according to how certain folk tend to translate things, apparently... I propose an experiment Place semen in a sealed container. According to how sperm banks state, one needs to store it at minus 196 degrees C to preserve (protect) it. Every so often, breathe (beacause breath is qi , right) into the container to "multiply" qi Repeat until dharma body is complete...