spanda

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but curious if there are any practitioners here who have experience in Qi Gong and Tibetan Yogas like tummo or trulkor? Not looking to see which is "better" - just curious of similarities and differences. My meditation practice is rooted in Tibetan traditions, but am also discovering Qi Gong as a movement/energetic systems - and curious about where the paths lead.

Ok reading some of @Nungali posts and deciding I may have to slowly work through this thread...

Only read the first page of this thread. The idea of catching up on 28 pages is daunting, probably wont do it. So maybe these links have been shared already and the conversation probably long moved on, but throwing in some links for the most easily accessible up to date research on some of these topics. https://wondery.com/shows/tides-of-history/episode/5629-bone-stone-and-genome-understanding-humanitys-deep-past/ (All of season 2) https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4411.Eden_in_the_East https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300182910/against-grain https://www.amazon.com/Dawn-Everything-New-History-Humanity/dp/0374157359 I recommended this one before. One of the most important new books for anyone trying to suss out dominance and hierarchy. Doesn't provide all the answers but blows up a lot of misconceptions and asks new questions.

https://herbsforever.com/product/chywanprash-capsules/

The seminar was well worth the time and cost. It's worth it for the Stillness practice alone. If you're serious about developing Neigong, then it's absolutely worth it. As everyone has said, Rudi is a calm, patient teacher. He provided clear instruction in all the various practices. Both during and after the seminar, he's been extremely generous with his time in answering questions that have come up. I like that we weren't "primed" with theory, history, or mythic stories. He did advertise the ability to generate electric qi as a long-term potential benefit, along with some stories about his teacher, but really the emphasis was on simple, direct and practical exercises for inner development. And they are surprisingly easy to fit into your day or existing practices if compatible. I've been trying to track down proper instruction in one of these practices for the past 9 months and Rudi delivered. Already feeling some improvements in my health and sense of well being.

This book will be a useful read for anyone engaged with this discussion. https://www.amazon.com/Dawn-Everything-New-History-Humanity/dp/0374157359 Here's a preview: https://www.eurozine.com/change-course-human-history/

I'm curious if some of the fragrant qigong practitioners here could share about their experiences with the system. I've been practicing for a little while and find it distinctive from Spring Forest. Are there any physical, emotional or mental benefits or changes that have been noticed, for example.

Best of luck and a speedy recovery. I know how rough a "mild" case can be, so be well.

I can't say one is better than the other. I've enjoyed both. If for some reason I was forced to only practice 1....that would be a hard choice.

I miss meditating though, so not sure I will stick with it as a form. It's been very helpful and interesting to learn such an easy, simple to perform form, but I don't like the meditation and breathing restrictions. Sometimes I'd just prefer to sit.

Physically there is a very big difference in how the forms feel during practice. SF is much more pleasant and soothing, or even blissful. Not much happens when I practice Fragrant, sometimes some chills, but I notice it has a more optimistic energy as you say. I do seem to be getting mental and emotional benefits from it and even a sense of increased intuition. I had similar experiences with SF, I noticed it seemed to be reshaping me mentally and emotionally (I was also meditating frequently at the time), but the energy of FQ feels a little more grounded or confident, if that makes sense. Not every day, but on many days after practicing, I have a strong feeling of everything being OK

But do dakinis visit if your Qi Gong is advancing?

I've had a number of experiences with night hag/sleep paralysis phenomena since I was a teen. They kind of surged from about 17-20, then faded for the most part. Over the past 4-6 years, since starting meditating, reading Buddhist books, they've remained infrequent to rare, and I find I'm much more in "command" when they start to arise. I'm often able to use awareness and mantras to pull myself out of the paralysis and avoid getting fearful. But last night... I had a dream that suddenly turned negative. In the dream, my body locked up, and found myself struggling to use my voice. A dream entity that had left the room we were in suddenly rushed back through the doorway towards me. I woke up frozen and trying to scream. I was able to moan and cry out, it woke up my wife who was sleeping next to me, but not before what appeared to be a headless body rushed across the room and literally ran into, or pushed me. It felt like I was physically shoved and my body moved in response. This is a new experience. I've been pulled, had my body lifted off a bed, but never been directly "hit" like this. I woke up and became calm very quickly, as by now this kind of experience isn't new to me, although this ranks as one of the top 5 most intense experiences I've had. Sharing this story A) to see if anyone here has similar experiences B ) are there energetic or practice considerations I need to make after an experience like this? Previously this type of thing would have been a disturbing memory and nothing more, but since my spiritual practice has become more serious over the past year, I think it warrants getting feedback from other experienced practitioner's. I'd like to chock it up to a medically explainable case of sleep paralysis, but the kicker is I woke up with some slight bruising on my chest this morning, about where this thing seemed to hit me. Perhaps this should posted in the healing circle

Thanks for sharing @Eduardo Yes, I've found Aum useful too. Didn't mention that. The speed and ease and bodily confidence I feel using it is very helpful. Thanks @Apech Thankfully it's not weighing heavily on me (no pun intended), I view it kind of lightly. At the same time, it was intense and I thought there might be some folks experienced with these types of events around here, so thought it was worth sharing. These things are ultimately empty, but we still have to deal with their forms. There's actually a documentary about this subject I've been meaning to watch. Now it's at the top of my cue.

Thanks for the tip @RiverSnake I was just shopping for cactus today actually, along with other plants for our place. I'll need pick up a small one for the bedroom. Nice that I happen to like them.

Thanks Chya! I'm on a few of the more obscure things listed there - Mirica, which contains Luteolin and PEA. And liquid B12, which delivers a 2.5mg dose. I've had a previous Lyme infection that was theoretically treated. I never had the fatigue or neurological symptoms, instead a major infection of my knee. My doctor thinks that means the bacteria may have been just been in my knee and possibly eliminated with the antibiotics. I've tested negative on the Western Blot, but she wants me to get a 1k US dollar test just to be sure at some point. Can't swing that right now, so have to wait. The supplement costs alone come in at almost $300 every 30-60 days.

Hi Bums, I got Covid a year ago and have been suffering from post viral chronic fatigue syndrome since. My symptoms now are mainly headaches, fatigue (the kind you feel when you have a flu, not just "tired") and sometimes, difficulty thinking and pain in the center of my chest. For the past few months, the symptoms come and go. So I might feel OK for a week, then sick for a few weeks. Too much of any activity makes the symptoms worse - exercise, talking, thinking, working etc. This makes it difficult to manage. I have to take things very easy. I discovered Qi Gong might be good for these symptoms after reading a Zen meditation book that talked about how monks in Japanese monasteries sometimes overworked themselves into this condition and used Qi Gong to heal themselves. I realized I could also use it to get a little movement in and would be much safer than yoga for my symptoms. I started practicing Spring Forest Qi Gong since November. I've really enjoyed it. It's helped me emotionally and spiritually a lot I think, for physical symptoms, it's hard to say. I often feel good while doing it, but the effects don't last long after. I practice nearly every day, often one 30 minute session. Since January I'm having more energy and would like to learn a system that has more movement than Spring Forest. It seems very static compared to others? I was looking at Bruce Frantzis's Dragon and Tiger system for example, that seems like a good medical Qi Gong, but with more motion. I discovered Damo Mitchell recently too, and am very interested in building my LDT. Perhaps this would even help with my energy issues? I also really like his knowledge level and presentation of Qi Gong. So I'm looking for advice on which practice set to explore next out of the ones I've mentioned. Would trying to develop my LDT be too much energetic work right now? Stick with SFQ or check out Dragon and Tiger? Any input from experienced practitioners appreciated. Outside of Qi Gong, I have a Tibetan calm abiding/open awareness meditation practice that I practice daily. Thank you

Hi Cheya, Thanks for asking. Yes, I'm also working with a functional medicine doctor. She has me on a load of supplements - vitamins, herbs, and some medical compounds I guess you could call them. I'm also taking low dose naltrexone. I incorporate Pacing into my day and some breathing exercises for calming the nervous system. Would be curious to here what the Dr. has to offer, open to any to approaches that may help.

Thank you @Nungali Sorry to hear your friend went through such a bad experience. Past few years. Typically before these experiences begin, I can feel a pulling or sinking feeling, either in my dream body or in the hypnagoic state. After various experiences with meditating and ayahuasca, I was able to release the fear I usually associated with this sensation. This was often enough to enter a brief astral projection phase and I could "roll" out of my body and explore the room, rather than get pulled into whatever was pulling at me. If the experience did escalate, I would try to allow my fear to self dissipate, while reciting the Om Mani Padme Hum mantra. Even if I felt an negative energy presence, the mantra seemed to act as a shield or would scare away the negative energy. I've had a few encounters where I even felt empowered and seemed to scare away what was there through the force and confidence of recitation. When I was younger, in highschool, I used Christian prayer, as this was all I knew at the time, despite not being Christian, and it had a similar effect in that seemed to avert the worst of what appeared to be happening. But last night happened very fast. Even in the dream, my voice felt chocked up before I could get the words out. I've not tried any formal protection practices before. I do read these things can be associated with stress and trauma. Last year was challenging - big health problems. We just moved a week ago, so this is happening in a new place. Moving stirred up some anxieties, and I did go to bed stressed last night. But, the experience seems out of proportion to that kind of stress. But maybe I'm kidding myself and should get to a therapist.

Curious about how SPFQ incorporates LDN development and the MCO. At what levels do those techniques begin? I realize level 1 has an MCO meditation, but not clear whether it's truly activating the MCO or preparatory. From what I understand takes a lot of time and preparation? I've been practicing level 1 for close to 6 months now, and I'm generally curious about how the system develops in relation to other programs out there that are popular with you all.

Thanks. I'm pretty clueless on Daosim, but have a good, if basic, grasp on Tibetan Dzogchen and Mahamudra outlooks, so what you're saying sounds accurate. I have read Tummo can help one experience the emptiness of their experiences and self, to oversimplify.

Thanks @Creation Great write up on the energetic similarities + differences. I'm interested too in what the experiential differences are, if any, in terms of how they effect consciousness and awakening. Do they have different flavors, or are they leading to similar experiences? The siddhis I've read about seem very similar, but. curious about their effects on Mind

@Toni I've seen FQ recommended on here. It does sound amazing. Would you recommend the DVD's from the Australian teacher, whose name is escaping me...? His website was the only one I could find out there on FQ. @forestofemptiness Thanks for sharing the personal experience. I can see how Bruce would come off negatively, but his systems seem legit. I agree. At some point I'd need (and would like) in-person instruction, so the overall vibe of the teacher and school is of some consideration for long term fit. I enjoy what little I've learned of Qi Gong so far and can see myself continuing a practice even if I get over this health issue. @liminal_luke Thank you. I'm using a similar program called Reset. It uses some similar techniques, but I've read it's a little safer, or maybe, sophisticated. I've heard mixed things about DNRS from the CFS/ME community. Reset has an emphasis on keeping you from entering into the sympathetic state. For the first 6 months of my illness, this was a big issue for me. My hear rate was constantly elevated.

Thanks so much for the warm welcome ilu. And thanks all for the suggestions!