S:C

I suppose it might be the Mūlamadhyamakakārikā but I am not sure. It is about his arguments against the metaphysics of his time why reality cannot be grasped by ideas and concepts. If that is correct, which of the fifteen translations would be most helpful for an understanding? Neither Sanskrit nor English is my first language, and I look for a version that has the arguments rather clear, not one that draws parallels to greek thinking or offers other interpretational specialties. Thanks!

Awesome. Thanks! @Creation

and I suppose it might be the Mūlamadhyamakakārikā but I am not sure. It is about his arguments against the metaphysics of his time why reality cannot be grasped by ideas and concepts. If that is correct, which of the fifteen translations would be most helpful for an understanding? Neither Sanskrit nor English is my first language, and I look for a version that has the arguments rather clear, not one that draws parallels to greek thinking or offers other interpretational specialties. Thanks!

How could I make moral judgements while not being clear on my premises? No, you made several interesting points I will have to ponder. Maybe I just leave too much chaos with my questions here and should stop that altogether. Didn’t mean to disturb.

Sounds awesome!

I have been pondering this question for almost three years now. Fair question!

I wouldn’t dare to imply that! Please be assured!

That is fascinating! And what you wrote about Raja yoga too. It’s not something you can get a hold of at your local yoga studio, I suppose. Sad, but sounds amazing, from what I gather… even while being sure that I ain’t even getting the gist of it…

Do the sutras include here also the actions toward self? Making oneself suffer is equally bad as anyone else?

That is a troubling point: how can it be about autonomy if everywhere one‘s moving one steps unintentionally on someone’s toes e.g. causes suffering? Unavoidable!? What is a correlation or the relationship between autonomy and Dharma? Anyone else has a strange feeling of the two being unfitting? It seems immoral to strive for autonomy, no? It‘s like reaching for the Promethean fire or flying to close to Ikarus‘ Sun, grasping for the moon, making the gods envious… will stop because nothing of use will follow, but it is so annoying that I cannot state the problem more clearly, I suppose it is not understandable?

Nah, just seemed like a topic change. Sorry if I was mistaken about your attribution to Mr. Halls brotherhood. No harm intended! Indeed you maybe just seem to know a lot about them.

It still feels like disillusionment. What is your opinion on Dharma, if I may ask? Do you believe it exists but doesn’t give us objective precepts or only shows us by consequences?

Sad, there is still no abrahamic precept list… what do you mean by Levintine? Where does it belong to? Please pardon my ignorance!

What you mean is, you don’t feel the ‚karmic backlash‘, that is experienced on the emotional level (as remorse, different causal chains thereafter, nightmares etc.) as the effects going against the perceived moral precepts? Or am I wrong here?

If you look for „the secret teachings of all ages“ you might have known that someone from your ‚brotherhood‘ Mr. Hall, I believe, has done that already a few years back, but I cannot comment on the quality, I stay away of brotherhoods and their papertrails, makes me nervous, but it might be of interest to you. Still, I wonder how we came there from the question of morals. Strange… probably I just consider „brotherhoods“ and cults immoral, maybe because of the hierarchy of power. and because they seem to always interpret higher laws to their advantage, am I wrong here?

I did, didn’t I? I‘m not sure I understand what I did here. Once again, thank you, those further two lists were interesting! Not aimed at anyone in particular, but what is it that makes a precept moral? Relations to a higher power? What is it that gives some decisions the quality of immorality even if they are based on values, like for example autonomy if set as an absolute? And please, could anyone explain „Dharma“ in more detail? @old3bob or anyone? I seem to be missing out on something valuable here…

Feel free to elaborate on the word and meaning! And thanks for clarifying!

Dharmic principles as in the Indian - rather Hindu - than Buddhist sense of the word? From what I gather “dharma” in that sense gives each living being its own set of tasks. And how well the humble individual being solves those with its means given has consequences due cause and effect relations? So the rules apply not for everyone in the same way but depending on previous karma? Is that what you meant? What are the guidelines then or aren’t there any? When would one detect to be on a “slippery slope”?

I am sorry to hear that you feel like this and hope you will find a way to equilibrium, serenity and away from nightmares and troubles. Thanks for sharing your view!

So what you mean by this is that you try to be in the presence of ‚fully enlightened beings‘ as to see their moral values and copy them? Or did I get that wrong? I am a bit confused now, sorry.

This is very complex and interesting. I am still trying to wrap my head around an example, would you have any particular in mind? Like is there a text that explains the connection with an example? Edit: Deducting from the quote by Ajahn Khamjan: So morals then would be virtue/sila, but in considering a decision for an action one would have to ‚detach‘ first from it emotionally to get to a Birds Eye of view and then consider also prajna/wisdom through previous experiences one has lived through or probabilities? Is this getting close or is it far from it? Did he write this in a book with examples maybe?

Just wanted to clearly state that to me these questions are of purely educational interest. The need to state this again seems because while logging in, it seems the thread with the forum rules just pops up all so often lately.

Thanks for clarifying!

Interesting, thanks for sharing! Would you be willing to share the precepts of Bön?

Thanks, this is interesting! Would you be interested to share those? It’s probably not a list of precepts and therefore hard to precisely tell those? Or are those rather intuitively ,engrained‘ and arising on the current situation?