S:C

What does the symbol of the dragon stand for in the east in comparison to the west, is there a difference? The west isn’t very fond of them, but the east does value those in folklore and myth, is that wrong, can anyone explain please? Thanks.

oh boy, … quelle stupidité though this be madness yet there’s method in it.

is that the male aspect of ‘the dragon’? where does the Indian tradition (this is sanskrit?) recommend enjoyment of empirical sense data? what is this tradition where that comes from? It seems more earth bound than uhm all this consciousness and marriage and lusty stuff. seems all awfully exhausting anyways. can you transform unhealthy emotional cycles with the empirical methods of form, taste, smell, sound and touch… ? maybe that is a way from one dragon to another, well and India is sort of in the middle anyways between west and east . Huh

sounds rather western and/or buddhist (negative dragon) and quite advanced (consciousness/marriage). is it not rather the ten thousand things that obscure and prevent? poor (female unleashed) scolded dragon, it seems to hide in voiditiy. Can’t say that about the emotions men have about theirs. Else we could stay on topic, maybe? No one here for the eastern perspective on dragons and some positivity? No one to talk about the emotive practice for women? It’s a real men’s club, here, I feel like leaving again.

any one of these schools offers written or given advice on how to transform (one’s own) emotions according to the cycles of the five change phases (五行)? I took some material from a relatively younger school and drafted a concept of my own, - but I’d like to hear advice on that first.

Not for a woman, it ain‘t. Unless she ends up with a man, eh? It‘s a different challenge for women. Usually it is emotions they have to restrain or overcome, no? So the figurative dragon is at another place for ‘em, no?

can’t help but repeat that the cultural references frames are helpful only if kept separated… can we have both perspectives on dragons clearly separated maybe, - that might help

what exactly are we afraid of

this… dragon vs. knight? lust or emotions? different for men and women. dragon and knight. why either or. neither nor? where is their rightful place in a man or a woman? (didn’t @awaken mention a similar symbolism?) who is the virgin? heart or spirit? trinity? seems so ungrounded, when looked at it this way. what’s the ‘counterpart’ of the virgin? doesn’t she have a dragon-like side as well? are dragons rather feminine in daoism or classic male as a concept metaphor? we gotta keep the cultural traditions separate when we use them as reference frames or else all meaning is lost. @haribol, might be, but I can’t understand the context, can you elaborate please? what is the positive element of dragons that is found in the east, - fertility, water, chaos as a positive element, as well as ehh um destruction as it makes place for ehh something new..? anyone… ?

same with the good aspect in what we perceive in evil, taijitu, - if duality is the perspective of choice.

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this is a method. it’s a bit similar to classic logic. usually one would cite their sources/lineage/teacher. you can avoid that, if you use precision in the method, that means explaining your words and use extremely concise language. the further trouble is that everyone involved will have to deal with a translation problem in at least three languages (Chinese, English, Native). So yea it’s probably pointless even with a disciplined method. with you I don’t even recognize a pattern, let alone a method. this is why it is pointless for me to go on communicating with you. (just think of the poor fish going upstream and being fried! 🐠🐟🐡 -> 🍣)

No you don’t. Not to me at least. Your methods doesn’t meet my standards. If you (and others) would follow this method with discipline, contradictions and different opinions would become more obvious. But you don’t. You don’t even state your premises clearly and the definitions and sources you use are opaque at best. Fish beware to not be grilled ! Peace. 🐠

You will still have the secrecy problem, as members will often not want to state where they belong to. Every teacher has a right to be left alone. Something that could help, would be an obligatory entry for a poster, containing : stating what in their opinion is the subject and the goal of the practice (premise), then define the basic ingredients (framework, reference, contents), name the old chinese characters and their English translations thereof. Then who wishes may be able to ‘re-translate’ the meaning, e.g.according to XYZ 命 [= Ming, means 1. breathwork only in the context of CDE 2. grilling the fish that has a wanting to go upstream, in the context of old daoist fables] Might be long and wary, but so at least one has a chance at understanding each other (tower of babel problem) and words are not empty vessels or carry an unintended message downstream. Else someone might unintentionally pass something like ‘severe punishment’ in the wording of ‘unconditional love’ and tries to connect it to e.g. 靈. No way to guarantee a beneficial meaning, but at least for the reader it becomes more obvious, what in the minds eye of someone is going on, (e.g. it is ND according to CD, so to me it’s ChiDragoning, not Neidan in the thus-thus school, or the like, no offence…, CD!) Thus like minded people could easier connect and also students with teachers. If both want to and see potential.

Conductor clashing

Do we know for sure that we can rely on the interpretation of someone who was not a direct eye witness nor a recognized student? How do we know the authority of the state and church did not again influence and water down the focus of the teaching to fit their narrative?!

then why aren‘t you communicating?

where do you draw the line? names, morals - have words a morale of their own!? too much words, but sometimes they are needed, when the compass isn‘t aligned. then they should at least mirror the substance they carry, no?

Meanwhile I think Chi Dragon might actually be teaching.... but teaching us a different lesson than he is claiming to be.... Words are vases? Did Wittgenstein bring you here, Chi Dragon? Trying to do another Rectification of names ?

to someone doesn't mean one is being payed for it. so no accusations in that direction on my behalf. anyways, they are everywhere. If you observe closely, I didn't criticize his opinion, but his intention in the OP. He endorses the student while explaining that he isn't sure about the quality of the knowledge shared, while his mind is yet unclear about it. No trouble with expressing opinions, perceptions or values. But teaching lifestyle ethics - to those in need - while not being sure about the quality - seems to me the equivalent to a kid at the gas station playing with a fire lighter near to the gasoline puddle. But that is just my prejudiced opinion, and yeah... sharing opinion and "teaching" might be quite close to each other... - it differs, when one claims 'authority' or tries to change behavior of others, while profiting thereof, I'd say. In my culture, every teacher who confesses he is exploring the concept in the moment just while and when he is teaching on life subjects, while he had no endorsement to teach in that area and no depths of source and security in the tradition, clarity and proven proficiency, - would (yet) not be called a teacher. But even my culture changes. words are vases. who am I to teach? BUT maybe we can get back to topic... the cauldron the bellows the force field the inner fields the entrance the nowayout ...

It is serious but I often am overreacting.

Do you realize you are doing the agitation and propaganda section of any modern (e.g. anti-cultural) and authoritarian party (think: CPC / CCP e.g.) a favor with spreading even more confusion and distortions about and thereby further destroying wisdom of the old? Word Wizards, are you doing any good?! If you want to share something you experience, why not share that in simple words of your own? Maybe at some time, someone comments on your experience/perception resembling something known in cultural phenomena of old wisdom?