S:C

It seems funny and odd as first, then thoughtworthy if you think of a tyrant, or a Gestapo Officer, or a serial killer. They all are as well, then in this perspective? As you referenced the chap called Robert, I had a further realization… if you take integration seriously, relationships as a path (not one by my conscious choice) will show you what you are averse of or even despise and might need to integrate if you cannot become careless about it. It also reminded me of a series of dreams where I was in more than one perspective at the same time. Victim and perpetrator and a third non reactive bystander. Shocking really, I hate my path.

Holy Spirit gives the spark to the fire to burn books forbidden by the Catholic Church.

dust-cloud darkened sky a pale blue dot breaks open two dancers inside

Borrow?

Like a Tango

And well, if the practitioner happens to be a (biological heterosexual) woman the Daena happens to come across as a radiant man? Huh. Regarding the ‘rite of destruction’… there’s a music piece by Strawinsky that pictures that well, ‘rite of spring’ called, I believe, huh odd, it sets place in Mongolia or so, for spring a female is sacrificed in a dance, even though noone harms her physically. The female physically and in all layers just dies during this, just like in so many gruesome traditions of old, also common in the Tibetan traditions, if I recall correctly. Thanks, this seems helpful!, do you know if Zoroastrism is still practiced somewhere in the west? The Tibetan view seems quite crowded in my experience. The simpler the better. Life’s complicated enough. I’d almost fall for a unique path, but learning seems limited- even there. Teachings seem to have parallels, though. Thanks for the onion metaphor, @Shadow_self but well you never know if it’s emptiness, beyond emptiness so what good does it do. The peeling on of layers after returning seems to make sense, even if it’s counterintuitive, why get ‘thicker’ again after returning?

Wtf is this? Would you explain please?

Indeed. And if despite training, discipline and listening there is no improvement it might be time to move on.

Still scratching my head. Tried to draw your version but it doesn’t add up or I don’t get it. If you happen to enjoy and have the extra time, please feel free to elaborate…

As long as we haven’t a no-resistance (zero-Ohm)teacher that reaches to us from the ‘other side of the light’ we must be aware that we could be taking to the fool or the sage in our teacher at any time… and as well act and react from the same positions ourselves … as also we still are partly fool and (if lucky) partly sage. Not saying: anything goes, but - be reasonable and proportionate in forbidding someone to speak his/her voice!

Moderator Comment: What is with this aggressive behavior? If you don’t understand the question, and genuinely want to know, you can articulate your question without the condescension. Let me be very clear with you @Taoist Texts - if I see even a hint of condescension/bullying from you again, it will result in a permanent ban. If I learned anything from those I consider a teacher and/or a friend, it is that asking the right questions is imperative (for survival, success or sanity along the way - take your pick!). Reading TT’s comment did help remind me of a few lessons that always serve to be learned again and again. The receiving part might hear his words from the ear of condescension or bullying or aggression, (honi soit qui mal y pense!) - his/her loss - but it seems to be open to a broader spectrum of interpretation and one where TT’ throws Ariadne (modern female cultivators and princesses have to help themselves… (!) no white knight Theseus comes with a sword to kill their dragon… anyways in a weird way they would be the same person anyways) a red thread in the labyrinth of the dragon to find her way out there hopefully. All we can do here in TDB as friends along the way is to throw some trails of breadcrumbs out of the woods of the witch or pointers at the moon (good lord what a mix of metaphors.) If we forbid helpers to speak up it’s getting dim for our chance of success. https://www.buboquote.com/en/quote/32-carroll-if-you-don-t-know-where-you-are-going-any-road-can-take-you-there Applying discipline or cultivation to a lost cause or wrong end is a waste of time and energy that could (or should) be avoided (if it doesn’t coincide with one’s personal goal or nature). It’s always wiser to observe and orient with several options and consequences before deciding for a course of action. Sometimes a more direct approach can be necessary, I don’t see an insult or offense here: not everybody can teach with silence alone. Aren’t we all getting a little miffy with the so called modern emotional based rules of rational discourse? Cultivation is no cuddling. It must have been more fun to talk in the past.

As this topic runs with me for almost five years now and I fail to address and integrate it properly in my life (though I read a few books on the subject, don’t laugh!) I ask for your perspective and ideas: - what are your associations, thoughts, ideas, emotions (pictures, traits, archetypes, stereotypes etc.) towards the feminine in life - I’d ask for a friendly focus on the positive aspects - most cultivation traditions don’t seem to hold them in quite such a high regard. - how do you live that part in your life - as a male as well, do you or do you avoid that? if so why? I’d start and present my own view, but it is deeply flawed with stereotypes and most womanly traits seem/ed not so appreciable back, it’s gotten better, - but more curious on your ideas for now, might share more later, but it will take some time and I confuse classic female aspects as male ones, so it’s not really a good idea to start. I’d like to invite especially @Maddie, @dwai, @Taomeow, @silent thunder @Geof Nantoand @Nungali but please feel free to enlighten me on your view.

Still, I don’t see Mercury here, just a (conjoined) balance of aforementioned polar energies. Thanks, that was interesting! Gotta love daobums various perspectives and interpretations!

don’t follow unfortunately, it’s different than the planetarial-tree of life diagram you’re usually referencing, true?

Oh I didn’t get that sorry. and still don’t, what does an old Egyptian general have to do with this thread?

That’s the point or problem the diagram isn’t showing imo. Seeing polarities and going out of it more than two directions (usually four, here ten, did I miss someone?) from center/earth, might just be a personal preference of mine. Another triangle guy, interesting, but I don’t follow you either… is this a classic of your traditions? I read it in other disciplines and drives me nuts, because they always claim authority to this triangle to be ultimate and only truth. Naive realism, imo, nothing more. Just as my viewpoint, of course. Thanks for the reference of the ship navigator, might have to read your ritual a few few more times to get it. But that’s what I ‘see’: balance in all those aspects and you might get a chance to center… (and let go for good when no resistance?) what Mark references, but I don’t get his way there either. Even if I try. Planetarial oppositions - not ,repetition sets’ (like octave or whatever you choose, arbitrary to me, can you explain why?) - how I feel those : Sun - mind/brain vs. Moon - feeling/heart Jupiter - improportionality/expanse vs. Saturn - discipline/contract/retreat Neptune - Water, dreams, music, gentle opiatic swimming, creative blurs and prophecies vs Uranus - Electrical, whirring sharp clear insight, impulse/beat, fast changing, aprupt Venus - female charmer, Eve-Lilith (not the black moon) dynamic, maid, mother, wise old, conflict with witchy, seductress, amazon vs. Mars - male activist, Adam/Kain-Able dynamic, aggression, going through, ruthless, principled at best, egoist in conflict with husband, boy, caretaker Mercury vs Pluto - both psychopomps, helpers of psychonauts, both tricksters, both thieves, Mercury via talk, discourse, argumentative, communications and Pluto via lies, violence and manipulation (sex and death). , intense relationship dynamics (that can make up human life on the interface of the wheel of time) which might play out in one ‘individual’ or between two or several… on the waves safe seas…

sea close! dark again. dream presence. why? a friend died. symbolic dreams, no!

living with the trees, dying with the light, a dream? sea close! dark again.

Is this really correct? Who’s the source? Instead: mercurial vs plutonian uranisian vs neptunian jupiterian vs saturnian marsian vs venusian sunnish vs moonish forces… as in oppositional qualities , no? alright then, no.

It’s more patterns than words in classic oppositionals and linear logic but I’ll try… you mentioned they are both guides for the dead, Mercury would be the more personal one, while Pluto is a transpersonal. It’s not only a connection with the balance of Sun and Moon (male/female) but also a needed balance in the other direction… or might be … at some point in a different ‘opposition’ of forces, I guess : Mercury represents rather male qualities, Pluto rather female ones in their approaches, imo&p both qualities need to be combined to navigate efficiently, sometimes with help along the way… if navigation serves well for the example, Mercury would be the guy on the top mast with the view on top and the maps and books at hand … to explore the territoire, so to speak, Pluto would take care of the sails, listens to the wind, his subconscious, music of the water ripples and waves and steer the direction. Don’t know if this is helpful to you, though.

Disorganized thinking: feminine is - diffuse - murky - intuitive - prophetic - boundless - pervasive - vulnerable - questioning - doubting - less belief - going where being drawn to - following - leading without force - the silence in music - the wait - the echo - dreamy - water - nourishing without limits - receiving - mirroring all the stuff daobums is about, for me, is part of this … world of subtleties, neptunian energies, strikes, glisterings, hummings, nothing sure or stable, nothing definitive…

Well, what? So Pluto < Hades < Anubis? This rings a bell with the long gone Khonsu mes thread… personal vs. transpersonal… huh. what do you make of this?