treebuffalo

You can see how dry it is in the foreground trees...

Given the state of the world (and maybe the temperament of humanity), did Lao Tsu's message to follow Nature's Way fail?

Assume for a minute people are inherently natural animals, with a tendency to stampede each other occasionally. Does it really matter if we understand why it happens? It happens. We live. We die. The Earth remains. Isn't that a Taoist world? Why do we have to define it correctly? Isn't that specifically UN-taoist?

I love Henricks, especially his notes. Its specifically his lack of insightful translation which allows me the freedom to interpret. It's harder to interpret on top of other interpretations like Le Guin or Derek Lin.

I think the answer I was looking for lies in the subtle paradox running throughout the DDJ: the way of nature is not a definable thing. But that is our purpose in life: to define things. So we must live with the paradox of trying to understand our world despite the world being beyond understanding. So what does a "taoist" world look like? I think this might be it. Like everything around us, it's a paradox, and cannot be solved. Will it get better? Probably. Will it get worse? Probably. Will we all eventually die? Yes.

This is an awesome compost story. But how on Earth is there 15 years worth in that tiny box?

Yeah the "scum" label caught me off guard as well. But Awaken doesn't speak English well by their own admission... I think what they and Nungali are alluding to is humanity's tendency to start fires just to put them out. I.e. when the herd starts stampeding everyone else just joins in. Which brings around the purpose of my post. Maybe our stampedes are natural? Does it even matter if any of us understand why things happen?

Is it just me, or does this describe most animals? The Ancients of excellent action, Masters of the subtle essence, profoundly penetrated so deep we cannot understand. Truly, for this reason we cannot understand. But I will try to describe their attitude. Cautious! As if crossing a frozen stream in winter. Alert! As if danger were on all sides. Dignified! As if a visitor. Relaxed! As ice about to melt. Simple! As uncut jade. Empty! As a mountain valley. Obscure! As muddiness. And through their muddy stillness would gradually clear. And through their still movement would gradually come alive. Embrace this path by not wanting to fulfill it. Truly, for this reason will it never be filled. And grow old without having to constantly restore what you’ve made. translation by Tree Buffalo

I'd like to thank the moderators of theDaoBums for leaving up my translations of the DDJ. It says a lot about their self-confidence to let members celebrate their discovery of the tao without devolving into word-worshipping pedantic arguments about what life should or shouldn't mean to different people (something our society loves to do). Anyways, kudos to you and this excellent website.

Rather long for a chapter of the Tao Te Ching, Chapter 14 still economizes the space its takes up to describe the entire Universe. Especially compared to the volumes of books written about particle science. One of the great disservices modern science does for the human race, is give us the false sense of complete understanding. We can never know everything. It is impossible. As Lao Tsu tries to impress upon us over and over again, complex knowledge is incomplete (Chap 20). Whole knowledge, on the other hand, is simple and complete because it acknowledges what we cannot comprehend, or are unaware of. In short, life (and the Universe) is paradoxical, and must remain so. If you doubt this, just look where all our complex knowledge has gotten us. Our world is heating up from pollution, and we have manufactured weapons powerful enough to destroy all life on Earth. Instead of looking where we have never been, maybe we should keep our eye on what got us here in the first place. What are the rules of Nature that have nurtured life thus far? We can’t ever know them, but they are not scientific constructs (although science can describe them). They are indescribable, yet obvious. Life begets life, somehow. We can either nurture it, or snuff it out. But whatever we do, we shouldn’t suffer under the delusion that science makes us all-comprehending. It doesn’t. Remember that next time you’re trying to predict the future (or scientifically diagnose someone with PPD;).

It's not what we're doing, it's how we're doing it. If I am suffering from PPD, it's not because I gave it to myself. I (and my misguided translations) would be a natural outgrowth of whatever gave birth to my disposition. Once you read enough English translations of the Tao Te Ching, maybe you'll understand why I went back to the source material to try and understand the clumsy efforts of most translators. If you disagree with something I've written, specify it. Otherwise, ?.

I was recently banned from posting my own translations from the Reddit subforum r/Taoism. I hope you all are more open-minded. I couldn't find any rules here that prevents me from making and posting my own translations. I use Jonathan Star's character index plus many other translations (Robert Henricks, Roger Ames, Derek Lin, Red Pine, and many others). Chapter 11 was one of the harder chapters to interpret so I fiddled with the active voice a little bit (although its still very passive, in true DDJ fashion). I have a detailed commentary on meaning here. Assemble thirty spokes to create the wheel, but let its value remain at the empty center. Throw clay to create the pot, but let its value remain at the empty center. Cut doors and windows to create the house, but let its value remain at the empty center. In other words, create things that provide form, but let the value of those things remain formless.

I make my own translations because it helps me understand it better. And I share those translations because I want to know what other people think about the subject. The Tao has nothing to do with Chinese. Chinese (and not even Chinese- ancient seal script), is just the finger pointing to something. Why not look at what we're pointing to and not the finger?

I think everyone innately knows that good action is its own reward. That is the heart of the "theory" of wu wei. As soon as we expect results from our actions, we've lost it.

Hello everybody! Ive been reading the TTC by Stephen Mitchell since 97 and the DDJ by Roger Ames since 03. Glad to find you! Looking forward to some good conversations about modern applications of Taoism.